Partially resolved...but

[Wams]

THIS JUST IN:

from PREVIEWS, April 2003:

The Cassaday drawing seen in the PREVIEWS article is definitely different than the one that appears in Planetary: Night on Earth and the Cassaday rendition that was posted earlier in this thread and elsewhere.

Also, the chest logo that appears on the PREVIEWS Cassaday drawing is IDENTICAL to the WAMS chest logo:

... supporting the claim of WAMS and T'Jai that the Cassaday version is a trace.

Let the games begin.

lujho,Batscot and my good friend T'Jai
Thank you for your support and effort in this wild thread.
I would like to offer a single character illustration of
a hero of your choice.
Allow me some time to get do the art because Im currently under
a deadline for Image and Marvel at the same time.
PM me let me know what you would like.

 

[Wams]

The only significant dissimilarity is that Cassaday...

... took the time to at least draw his own head (which I quite like BTW).

Which is identical.

Hell, even the highlights in the trunks are the same:

Case closed. Judgement in favor of Plaintif.

I also said that Cassaday was given a bunch of my work for trade...
He has different rough variants of my Batman drawing ...So
He did use the head of one of the other roughs.

Oh well.

Wams

 

[lujho]

The real shame is that Cassaday IS a great artist who didn't need to do this. As Wams said - the guy was just lazy. He could have done his own, great-looking Batman in a similar pose in the first place. The editor was right to make him change it - and it's obvious that the bits that were changed for final publication removed the rest of the obvious similarities to Wams' pic - the abdominal musculature, the cape folds, the symbol and some of the shading.

Frankly, it's not a nice thing to learn about an artist whose work I have greatly admired, since the early days of Planetary.

 

[Wams]

Here is my art....For the haters. ; )
Enjoy..

 

[Wams]

 

[BatScot]

I always enjoyed how the art in Planetary: Night on Earth
referenced known styles, but there was always this one panel
that bothered me:

… because of that little pointy bit on the cape.

I guess I knew even then that something was up,
but little did I know then just how much was up!

LOL.

 

[Wams]

 

[lujho]

Can everyone see the images above ^

No man, red X's. You might have to uplead them somewhere else.

 

[Wams]

No man, red X's. You might have to uplead them somewhere else.

I'll fix it...

 

[ampersand]

Okay, I will admit that it does look like Cassaday used elements of Wams' drawing in his. It isn't a trace though, and I can't believe Wams caught that just by reading Previews. At first glance, they look nothing alike. I find it kinda hard to believe that they made Cassaday change it because the drawings are clearly different although alike.

And yeah, sorry for my heated posts about T'Jai and Wams being the same person.

 

[Wams]

Is it working for ya???

 

[ampersand]

Wams, like I said in PM your work is awesome. In particular, the DKR Batman and Robin and the second FF pic.

 

[lujho]

Yeah, they're showing up now. Love the shiny, raised bat chest-plate on some of the Batmen.

So you ARE the dude who did the Year One designs! That last one you posted - I always thought it was a high contrast photo of a mock-up costume but I see it's a drawing now.

 

[Wams]

Yeah, they're showing up now. Love the shiny, raised bat chest-plate on some of the Batmen.

So you ARE the dude who did the Year One designs! That last one you posted - I always thought it was a high contrast photo of a mock-up costume but I see it's a drawing now.

Thank you...
I was working for the WB at that time and was asked to do
concept work for the Year One Movie.
So I guess Im that dude. LOL!!!

 

[BatScot]

This is damn near ideal as far as my tastes run... I'd seen it before, but I didn't realize it was yours.

 

[Motown Marvel]

honestly, being an artist myself, many of the highlights and folds made are common design elements....you can find those exact folds and highlights in many artists drawing when dealing with a smililar pose...i've done them myself. for example, the one on the undies that you circled, you can even find that exact highlight in the B:TAS batman. and the highlights around the cape is standard rim lighting.

one thing you guys need to ask yourself: why the hell would john cassaday have to trace a drawing? there is no denying that he is an exceptional artist. he's done art for hundreds of books very successfully. why all of a sudden, on a drawing that is not difficult to draw, would he decide to trace? the man doesnt even use photo references for his art, why would he need to trace such a simple drawing?

 

[Motown Marvel]

P.S.- also allow me to say that im not hating on Wams' art. he certainly does have a great talent. that original batman pic, despite the talent, was a bit too close to ross for my comfort...but those other drawing you posted are damn fine pieces. i just find it hard to believe that cassaday would just toss a piece of tracing paper on your work and try to pass it off as his own. i fail to see the reason as to why he would have to do that.

 

[BatScot]

I was working for the WB at that time and was asked to do
concept work for the Year One Movie.
So I guess Im that dude.

So this:

... is you?

 

[lujho]

why would he need to trace such a simple drawing?

Deadlines?

Seriously, the fact that he was in possession of the artwork in question, was chewed out by his editor and made to change it should be enough.

Now, we don't have any proof of these things, but the way that T'jai and Wams have conducted themselves and the fact that their initial claims bore out to be true (that they're not the same person, that the artwork was changed from the vastly more simialr version that Cassaday originally drew and which appeared in Previews), I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

But I still contend that it's absolutely impossible for Cassaday's original version to have been drawn without basing it on Wams'. You only need your eyes to see that. You couldn't even get it that close to Wams' version if you tried to draw it from memory (unless your emmory's photographic) - you'd have to have Wams's pic right in front of you while you were drawing.

But whatever. As far as I'm concerned the matter's settled.

 

[T'Jai]

MM that is (wow you really like making me repeat myself don't you) as stated here

With that having been stated It was never stated or suggested that JC was incapable of producing the work in question just that in this instance he hadn't. I was around the work space of the Artist when the plagurization was discovered and as said individual is quite passionate about his work the theft was the cause of a great deal of irritation, Especially considering JC was given the works (yes there was more than 1 pic) because he professed that he was a fan and wished copies for personal enjoyment.
Before the editors stepped in the key piece showing that style costume was a traced drawing of WAMS art not just a design copy. Which wouldn't have been nearly as offensive. JC found a drawing he liked and traced it for his own book instead of putting in the time it would take to come up with it himself, not that he couldn't, he didn't. If it was some hack that was incapable of putting the work together it would have also been less offensive.

in the FIRST POST of the lazy bat artist thread closed for excessive flaming (by the by you posted in that thread four times so I'm assuming you read the initial statement)
HE DIDN'T NEED TO TRACE IT!
He saw a batman design he liked had no idea of who the artist was assumed that it would go unnoticed and unremarked upon and saved himself a little time.
a better question is why the art (which is a well drawn piece in need of no modification) was changed between the solicitation and the release?

I await your theory since you allow my statements no credence.
T

P.S. yes, Bat Scot that is Wams art.

 

[BatScot]

many of the highlights and folds made are common design elements... for example, the one on the undies that you circled, you can even find that exact highlight in the B:TAS batman.

This thread is all about proof, either for or against.

The proof for WAMS case has been posted.

If you believe that the circled highlight is non-distinguishing then post the B:TAS pic that is a perfect match—not similar, not reminiscent—but following the exact outline as the Cassaday trace does when placed over the WAMS original.

If you cannot do this then you do not have the proof to back up your claim.

WAMS has his proof.

Where is the proof against?

 

[BatScot]

one thing you guys need to ask yourself: why the hell would john cassaday have to trace a drawing?

The question is irrelevant: It is unequivocally clear that he did trace the drawing, whatever his reasons.

 

[ampersand]

The question is irrelevant: It is unequivocally clear that he did trace the drawing, whatever his reasons.

It is clear that he was influenced by it, but "trace" is way to strong of a word. I don't in any way think Cassaday traced that drawing, especially since the parts don't match up exactly or close to exactly.

 

[BatScot]

P.S. yes, Bat Scot that is Wams art.

Uh oh... then I've got a quick edit to make:

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7958592#post7958592

... aw hell, even the staunches supporters have to draw the line somewhere, and I draw mine at loin-cloths LOL!

 

[Wams]

honestly, being an artist myself, many of the highlights and folds made are common design elements....you can find those exact folds and highlights in many artists drawing when dealing with a smililar pose...i've done them myself. for example, the one on the undies that you circled, you can even find that exact highlight in the B:TAS batman. and the highlights around the cape is standard rim lighting.

one thing you guys need to ask yourself: why the hell would john cassaday have to trace a drawing? there is no denying that he is an exceptional artist. he's done art for hundreds of books very successfully. why all of a sudden, on a drawing that is not difficult to draw, would he decide to trace? the man doesnt even use photo references for his art, why would he need to trace such a simple drawing?

Ha!!!

the man doesnt even use photo references for his art,

Who told you that lie??? ^

why the hell would john cassaday have to trace a drawing?

I'll tell you...
HE IS A LAZY MINDED ARTIST.
Don't make him out to be God.