Partially resolved...but

[Saint]

But......now, tell me if I'm wrong......but......wouldn't Cassaday have had to reverse the image, like they did there, to get it like that? B/c isn't Wams and J.C.'s Batman looking in different directions?

Cassadsay no doubt owns a lightbox--I can't imagine any comic book illustrator without one. Here's the magic trick needed to flip an image with a lightbox:
1. Place image face down on light box.

Yes, it has only one step.

 

[Saint]

the method between the highlights on the undies and style of how the highlights are placed are identical between the wams drawing, the cassaday drawing, and the B:TAS drawing

If you think the BTAS drawing has identical highlights, then I question your eyesight.

 

[Flexo]

If you think the BTAS drawing has identical highlights, then I question your eyesight.

I think he's talking about the placement of the highlights.

 

[Motown Marvel]

If you think the BTAS drawing has identical highlights, then I question your eyesight.

dude
l back lighting l core shadow l highlight l core shadow l rim lighting

the same method was used on the highlights for all three pics...this isnt an uncommon method....its seen used by numerous artists.

 

[Saint]

I think I see what has happened--there's been a communication error. I think a better word for what BatScot and myself are speaking of is the wrinkle pattern found on the briefs of the Wams and Cassaday drawings.

Of course, a similar wrinkle pattern isn't enough to claim plagiarism, but a simple examination of the drawing found in "Previews" is. Aside from the head, the drawings are virtually identical. I have given my theory on the other minor differences above. In any case, I think a simple visual examination is proof enough that one is copied from the other.

 

[T'Jai]

Motown Marvel (and anyone else coming late into the game)

Read The Entire Thread!!!

Many of your concerns have already been addressed and resolved...

So your saying the exact pose and the cape folds is a coincidence and that the art (which is perfectly fine as it is, was changed for no reason) And that I spent three days arguing with people, and starting threads, and hunting down mods and, looking for this drawing, and keeping my temper despite the fact that people were obvioulsy attempting to get me to lose it for WHAT EXACTLY?!?


T

EDIT: Wams will be chiming in in a moment (i'm on the phone with him right now)

RE: The Ross similarity, The art was commissioned by Warner Consumer Products art division
Where Wams was stationed at the point that this took place, the request was a for a "Ross" style batman that was simple in it's form for posting on packaging and other promotional materials
as Wams is able to replicate many styles (and was already on the payroll) they asked him to come up with the designs...

Amp:(if you take offense at the nick name I'll type you out), Wams was looking through previews and saw his art in it... see above for how he got it changed.

CBB:
A)a date on the art means nothing it can be retconned later with photoshop.
B) Are you an Artist? (serious question because most of the artist on the thread have seen the photo comparisons and thereby back our position) and can you see the pics in this thread?
C) did you read the above previously posted material? (if not please refer to the large print)

By the by I am responding to post 95 in this thread by
MM: You think you're confused, try looking in a previews and seeing your work as a preview page for another artists work. Why he did it is still baffling Wams to this day...
he's already got his name, shortcuts are often used by artists on a strict deadline (none of his monthly books are solicited untill at least a few issues are in the can a.k.a. he ain't that fast)

originally posted by Wams
Alex does a "TYPE" of Batman.
I do a "TYPE" of Batman inspired by many artist.
Cassaday literaly traced my drawing...No BS.
My illo was for Wanerbros Consumer Products.
That is why DC was pissed at Cassaday.
They printed a page of the book in "Previews" .
When I saw my drawing in the ad I was wondering how it got there.
Then I realized it was a trace of my drawing.
Then I found out through a series of calls,that my friend was
the one who gave Cassaday a stack of my art (becuse he is a fan of my art) for trade.
My batman prelims were in the stack.
If you get that issue he is doing other artist batman interpitations
even traced Neal Adams.
I don't play that.
My assignment for Waners wasn't even finished and he took the Drawing
and was passing it off as his own. That is the problem.
Im telling you all that the Great Cassaday is a ripp off artist.
Doesn't mean he can't Draw...It means he saw something better
than what he could do that day.
Plain lazy.

the original statement by Wams taken from the post ur fav pic thread. Wams worked for WB consumer products, and on the show(design work) I'm not saying the shading came from him but your example pic very well could also be Wams work

Where in anything Wams has posted has he shown restraint

the evidence lacks merit to you and say one or two others(with emotional bias against the claim...curious...) which puts you in the vast minority.

post 100 is cleared up eariler in this post.once again I must state

Read The Entire Thread!!!

and hell the two previous ones as well. A little research by you can save us posting space and put a little more umph behind your argument as everone following my advice is watching you repeat statements over and over again and contesting already resolved points (which in my opinion is a lousy way to try to convince others that you are right)
T

 

[Joker]

after seeing the original version from previews I'll admit they're very similar...I dont know if it was traced or not, but he did obviously at least use it as a refference

 

[Brian Braddock]

after seeing the original version from previews I'll admit they're very similar...I dont know if it was traced or not, but he did obviously at least use it as a refference

There are still some people on these boards who won't/can't even admit that; All they can come up with is 'why would Cassiday bother/need to swipe?' - who knows? But it's obvious that he did.

Some folk definately owe Wams an apology - he had to take a fair bit of abuse from people and even now, when the proof has been presented, they havent got the conscience feel the need to apolgise. . I won't enter a slanging match by naming names, but they know who they are.


On a slightly different note - Wams: - Your other Stuff that you posted is amazing! Hmmm, Maybe there's a little bit of jealousy at the heart of some peoples posts fed by the realisation that they don't (and never will have) your talent. ?????

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

CBB:
A)a date on the art means nothing it can be retconned later with photoshop.
B) Are you an Artist? (serious question because most of the artist on the thread have seen the photo comparisons and thereby back our position) and can you see the pics in this thread?
C) did you read the above previously posted material? (if not please refer to the large print)

a) Then, I guess either way it's impossible to prove Wams drew it before J.C.

b)Yes, and yes.

c) Yes.

This is something that cannot be proven either way....so, it's kinda a waste of time I think.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

How is it obvious he did Benintez?

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Some folk definately owe Wams an apology - he had to take a fair bit of abuse from people and even now, when the proof has been presented, they havent got the conscience feel the need to apolgise. . I won't enter a slanging match by naming names, but they know who they are.

That was his own fault though.....

 

[ampersand]

That was his own fault though.....

Yeah, Wams was a complete ass in all his responses. T'Jai kept a level head though so I have much more respect for him

 

[T'Jai]

originally posted by T'Jai
The evidence lacks merit to you and say one or two others(with emotional bias against the claim...curious...) which puts you in the vast minority.

originally posted bySuperbenitez
Some folk definately owe Wams an apology - he had to take a fair bit of abuse from people and even now, when the proof has been presented, they havent got the conscience feel the need to apolgise. . I won't enter a slanging match by naming names, but they know who they are.

originally posted by Chrisbalebatman
That was his own fault though.....

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T

 

[BatScot]

the method between the highlights on the undies and style of how the highlights are placed are identical between the wams drawing, the cassaday drawing, and the B:TAS drawing....which proves the same style of highlights can be found in the works of numerous artists.

The only thing this statement proves is that you are unable to distinguish a straight line from a jagged one, and since I do not believe that you lack such fundamental perceptive capabilities I can only characterize your complaint as nothing more than a disingenuous attempt to avoid admitting the erroneous conclusions you have put forth in this matter.

I believe the Cassaday work is a trace, most likely accomplished through the lightbox method as Saint suggests, though it could just as easily been done paper-on-paper, and that the appropriation is self-evident based on a comparison of the PREVIEWS drawing and the WAMS original. Perhaps the copy is a skillful freehand; it makes no difference, the end result is the same: Cassaday misappropriated the work of another artist without license to do so.

WAMS, on the other hand, created his work in the style of Ross—at the request of Warner Brothers—and therein lies the difference. You can choose to believe this or not, but your judgment is suspect given what you have already chosen not to believe in this matter.

WAMS and T’Jai did not have the PREVIEWS picture that proved their case even though they stated that it existed, which it did and it collaborated everything they had said, and if WAMS states that he had license to Ross’ style then that claim must be given due consideration unless proven otherwise even when explicit proof to that effect is not readily available. Both WAMS and T’Jai presented their case in good faith (if not the manner Naysayer’s would have liked) with supporting evidence to back up the claim and I find no cause to reject any part of that claim.

 

[BatScot]

... it's impossible to prove Wams drew it before J.C.

The fact that Cassady changed the work in question between the time of the PREVIEWS article and publication suggests beyond a reasonable doubt a timeline that places the WAMS original at an earlier date.

 

[T'Jai]

originally posted by Bat Scot
WAMS, on the other hand, created his work in the style of Ross—at the request of Warner Brothers—and therein lies the difference. You can choose to believe this or not, but your judgment is suspect given what you have already chosen not to believe in this matter.

WAMS and T’Jai did not have the PREVIEWS picture that proved their case even though they stated that it existed, which it did and it collaborated everything they had said, and if WAMS states that he had license to Ross’ style then that claim must be given due consideration unless proven otherwise even when explicit proof to that effect is not readily available. Both WAMS and T’Jai presented their case in good faith (if not the manner Naysayer’s would have liked) with supporting evidence to back up the claim and I find no cause to reject any part of that claim.

have a look at the art Wams posted notice the stlye variation he is capable of. The "Ross-esque" style of the piece was on purpose. it's what they wanted, I mean come on you really think he wanted to put a loin cloth on batman

T

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The fact that Cassady changed the work in question between the time of the PREVIEWS article and publication suggests beyond a reasonable doubt a timeline that places the WAMS original at an earlier date.

No, because the work goes under so many changes and different hands. The work that was in the Previews was changed, yeah. But that's normal.

JG Jones made changes in his interiors for WANTED, I could tell EXACTLY what pages and panels he did so too from the tpb. It happens. Plus, it gets touched around by inkers, and colorists.

I'm not understanding how a timeline is placed between the preview and the publication.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

have a look ath the art Wams posted notice the stlye variation he is capable of. The "Ross-esque" style of the piece was on purpose. it's what they wanted, I mean come on you really think he wanted to put a loin cloth on batman

I've seen that style of the cape done before, so yeah I think he wanted in there....he drew it.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

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[The Last Meatbag]

Wow........this has been quite an arguement. I officially believe Wams now, that really sucks that your art got ripped. You're an incredible artist by the way Wams.......Your work kinda looks like....Alex Ross but animated....

That sounds weird but thats the best way I can put it. It sucks you had to put up with all that **** though

 

[T'Jai]

Uh oh... then I've got a quick edit to make:

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7958592#post7958592

... aw hell, even the staunches supporters have to draw the line somewhere, and I draw mine at loin-cloths LOL!

have a look at the art Wams posted notice the stlye variation he is capable of. The "Ross-esque" style of the piece was on purpose. it's what they wanted, I mean come on you really think he wanted to put a loin cloth on batman

I've seen that style of the cape done before, so yeah I think he wanted in there....he drew it.

Loin cloth in reference to Bat Scot's post from earlier in the thread you claim to have read, everbody's seen that stlye of cape done before.

T

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Nice Bill Finger Avatar.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The question is irrelevant: It is unequivocally clear that he did trace the drawing, whatever his reasons.

Batscot, it's a relevant question that he asked though.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Btw, Wams....I hope you don't take what I'm saying personally. I think you just might be wrong, not that your lying.

For what it's worth, as an Artist......I like your work. It's good stuff.

 

[The Last Meatbag]

Nice Bill Finger Avatar.

thanks