T'Jai said:
MM that is (wow you really like making me repeat myself don't you) as stated here
in the FIRST POST of the lazy bat artist thread closed for excessive flaming (by the by you posted in that thread four times so I'm assuming you read the initial statement)
HE DIDN'T NEED TO TRACE IT!
He saw a batman design he liked had no idea of who the artist was assumed that it would go unnoticed and unremarked upon and saved himself a little time.
a better question is why the art (which is a well drawn piece in need of no modification) was changed between the solicitation and the release?
I await your theory since you allow my statements no credence.
T
P.S. yes, Bat Scot that is Wams art.
if cassaday is perfectly capable of drawing this, as you admitted, then what could possibly be the reason for him to sink to such low low levels as tracing?! and laziness is not the answer. this is not a career that has room for laziness what so ever. if cassaday was a lazy artist, there is absolutely positively no possible way that he could have EVER achieved the success that he has achieved in this field, nor would he have ever been able to produce the work he has. this is not a career that allows lazy artists to succeed and survive in the manner that cassaday has. so try coming up with something new.
also, you say that he personally requested work from wams because he was such a fan of his art. but you also say that he traced it having no idea who the artist is. so, your telling me that cassaday saw wams art, loved it so much that he personally requested work from him, recieved the artwork from wams, then later saw it lying around having no idea who the artist is (even though theres a huge signature in the corner), then for some unkown reason sinks to the lowest level and artist can sink to, and traces the drawing, even though he's perfectly capable of drawing the picture himself? that doesnt add up.
as for why there were changes made to the art: millions of possibilities. this sort of thing happens often. it could be something as miniscule as an editor's personal preference on a trivial matter in the drawing.
lujho said:
Deadlines?
Seriously, the fact that he was in possession of the artwork in question, was chewed out by his editor and made to change it should be enough.
Now, we don't have any proof of these things, but the way that T'jai and Wams have conducted themselves and the fact that their initial claims bore out to be true (that they're not the same person, that the artwork was changed from the vastly more simialr version that Cassaday originally drew and which appeared in Previews), I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
But I still contend that it's absolutely impossible for Cassaday's original version to have been drawn without basing it on Wams'. You only need your eyes to see that. You couldn't even get it that close to Wams' version if you tried to draw it from memory (unless your emmory's photographic) - you'd have to have Wams's pic right in front of you while you were drawing.
But whatever. As far as I'm concerned the matter's settled.
deadlines, as important as they are, would never allow any self respecting artist to sink to the levels of tracing. and dont even try to say that cassaday isnt a self respecting artist, because you know that'd be an even more ridiculous accusation than the one at hand.
giving wams and t'jai benefit of the doubt based on how they conducted themselves in this thread is ridiculous....hell, a child molester can come in here and conduct himself reasonably if they were so inclined (not to draw any parallels between child molesters and this situation, just saying...) if anything cassaday deserves the benefit of the doubt based on his reputation and past work alone. and are you saying cassaday based his on wams, or traced wams...because theres a word of f**king difference between the two.
oh, and you dont need the original infront of you to draw that picture so similarly. any talented artist could replicate that drawing in such a similar fashion. and if you consider this matter settled, then be satisfied with that decision, because that leaves you with nothing more to say on the matter. so, bye.
BatScot said:
This thread is all about proof, either for or against.
The proof for WAMS case has been posted.
If you believe that the circled highlight is non-distinguishing then post the B:TAS pic that is a perfect match—not similar, not reminiscent—but following the exact outline as the Cassaday trace does when placed over the WAMS original.
If you cannot do this then you do not have the proof to back up your claim.
WAMS has his proof.
Where is the proof against?
the only way i could post a pic from B:TAS that would satisfy your specifications would be if i had a frame from B:TAS with batman standing in that EXACT pose as WAMS drawing...and i thknk we both know neither of us is going to find that frame. the closest i get is finding something similar off a google image search...but anyone who has ever seen an episode of B:TAS could tell you this is the type of highting they used in every episode:
the torso in this drawing is in a very similar position to the torso in wams, and the style of highliting and rendering the underwear are nearly identical.
Wams said:
he told me himself. what reason would he have to lie to me about using photo reference, when there is obviously no shame in an artist using a photo reference for drawing...its common practice.
I'll tell you...
HE IS A LAZY MINDED ARTIST.
Don't make him out to be God.
i addressed the lazy accusation earlier in this post. and im not making him out to be god. but i think he is an exceptional artist who has earned respect. accusing an artist of tracing is an extremely serious accusation. and its not one to ever be taken lightly. and i think what you've posted in your defense may possibly raise some questions, its far from being definitive proof that he outright traced your picture.
you have concerns, and im sure you truly believe what your saying, and i can respect that. but honestly, i think it was bad form for to start a ruckus about this on a message board. this matter is between you and cassaday and involves no one here. its particularly bad that cassaday cant respond to the public accusations you've made here, because im sure he doesnt know that you've made them public here. im also sure, that he probably wouldnt even give your accusations the time of day in such a public forum. if you think something shady transpired...take it to cassaday and leave it between you two, which is exactly where it belongs.
by the way, what did you hope to achieve by bringing this under such public scrutiny? to discredit him as an artist? that aint gonna happen. even if he did trace this, he's done far too much work for this to derail his career as a comic artist.
at best, i would say that the drawings are similar. and that certain aspects of cassaday's drawing was inspired by, based on, or influenced by wams....which certainly isnt uncommon in this field. but to say it was traced is a serious claim that based on the evidence has no merit.
