Comics Petiton for saving MaryJane in SpiderMan

[OtepApe]

I don't have a premade list. I told you it'd take me a couple hours to sift through my back issues and get some of the issue numbers back into my memory.

Suddenly you want my opinion on the matter though? I thought that I didn't know anything about ficition or characters, according to you. I mean why bother if my opinion means nothing to you anyway?

Well if you insist on yammering on and on and on and on and on about how I refused to hear your thoughts, then I will humour you and listen to them. I am nice like that.

Plus it's always gotta be fun listening to the ramblings of someone who clearly doesn't know what they are on about.

So when you're ready with you list, I am all ears toots.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Oh God, get over yourself, please.

The irony of this statement is crushingly painful.

 

[SpideyInATree]

The irony of this statement is crushingly painful.

The only thing that's crushingly painful is how arrogant and elitist you act.

 

[Doc Destruction]

The only thing that's crushingly painful is how arrogant and elitist you act.

AGAIN. Irony.

 

[OtepApe]

The only thing that's crushingly painful is how arrogant and elitist you act.

So the problem is that everyone is arrogant, mad, unhinged, eltitist but you???

Right I get you. So the fact that we are disagreeing with you makes us the above??But wasn't that what you were saying about me?

It's a sad thing when the only sane person in the world is you SIAT.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Well if you insist on yammering on and on and on and on and on about how I refused to hear your thoughts, then I will humour you and listen to them. I am nice like that.

Plus it's always gotta be fun listening to the ramblings of someone who clearly doesn't know what they are on about.

So when you're ready with you list, I am all ears toots.

Oh, you're going to "humour" me now. Right.

You'll get the list whenever I feel like it at this point. Maybe later tonight. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe next week. Maybe next month.

Hell, maybe next year.

 

[SpideyInATree]

So the problem is that everyone is arrogant, mad, unhinged, eltitist but you???

Right I get you. So the fact that we are disagreeing with you makes us the above??But wasn't that what you were saying about me?

It's a sad thing when the only sane person in the world is you SIAT.

What did my comment toward Doc Destruction have to do with you? Has nothing to do with you.

 

[OtepApe]

Oh, you're going to "humour" me now. Right.

You'll get the list whenever I feel like it at this point. Maybe later tonight. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe next week. Maybe next month.

Hell, maybe next year.

Well yes, I am going to humour you. I thought I had already said that?

Well whenever the list comes out, I will find it an enjoyable read.

I hope I will find them as enjoyable as these amusing rants you've been having at me and Doc tonight.

 

[OtepApe]

What did my comment toward Doc Destruction have to do with you? Has nothing to do with you.

I don't know, I just guess I felt a moral duty to reply to a post made by you attacking another poster.

I am nice like that. Wait a minute, I am seeing a pattern here...

 

[shinlyle]

I wasn't completely sure that those were criteria for "sidekick" status.

That just sounds to me like Peter is someone's employee.

Which, I think people are mixing sidekick with employee. Yeah, if I really hated what was going on with Spider-Man and was really that passionate about disliking two human beings, JMS and Joe Quesada, who don't know that I even exist in this world...yeah, I guess I'd be spouting off that he was Tony Stark's sidekick.

But I'm not upset and I don't hold grudges against JMS and Quesada. And I'm thinking of the larger picture. Yeah, of course a Spider-Man/Peter Parker fan isn't going to enjoy seeing him play second fiddle to another character, especially in his flagship title. But, to me, that's kind of the point...is it not? To get the reader to dislike Tony Stark and be on Spidey's side? Because that's what I see them doing. Because not every comic book reader goes on the Internet and reads previews/spoilers and creator interviews. Some people are just casual readers. Gotta give some reasons for the readers to dislike Tony Stark, especially when Pete sticks the new suit back up Tony's butthole.

But, hey, you can keep refering to him as Stark's sidekick but that's not what it is. Just sounds like a lot of upset Spider-Man fans, which is the norm these days.

Eh...perhaps.

I just think that, if you want the character to appear less like a sidekick, yo ushould hav ehim taking orders from Stark, and at least complaining about them, or something. Instead, we get Peter with a "Yessir" attitude. It's totally against his character. I would prefer to have Spider-Man guest-starring in Iron Man's books as his employee. I read ASM for Spider-Man. Not Iron Man.

Still, your point about getting the Spider-man fans worked up against Stark sounds like it may be a valid one....provided that Marvel actually lets Spider-Man put a hurtin' on Stark, as opposed to just getting slapped down Bendis/New Avengers style.

As for the complainin' Spidey-fans remarks....I'd say we have plenty about which to complain nowadays. Even Joe Q. and JMS have admitted to screwing the pooch, as it were. All in all, I'll be satisfied when things return to some semblance of normality. Not too normal, though....because that would be dull.

 

[Doc Destruction]

EXACTLY. If Joe and JMS said they screwed up, then that makes you WRONG, SIAT. They admitted that things are bad right now.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Still, your point about getting the Spider-man fans worked up against Stark sounds like it may be a valid one....provided that Marvel actually lets Spider-Man put a hurtin' on Stark, as opposed to just getting slapped down Bendis/New Avengers style.

.

This is really of the essence for me. I quit buying ASM and FNSM primarily because of the "Other".......Watching Pete being treated like a child is simply piss poor characterization (and would not have alone, made me quit the titles)......but a characterization that can be somewhat forgiven "IF", as you said, Marvel allows Spider-man to

1/ Come to his senses and realize he's a man!!,...realize his dependance on IM and lack of confidence in general is a result of him almost dying, realize he's a hero who deserves respect from fellow superheroes, not to be talked down to or treated like a 3rd rate rookie!

2/ Hands Iron Man his a## on a platter!!

If the aforementioned are not results of this current storyline, then Pete's current status in the MU is nothing more than the poor characterization I referenced above and for me, that's inexcusable.

 

[SpideyInATree]

EXACTLY. If Joe and JMS said they screwed up, then that makes you WRONG, SIAT. They admitted that things are bad right now.

It makes me wrong that I'm saying he's not a sidekick because Quesada and JMS said they screwed up?

I really don't see what that has to do with it.

 

[shinlyle]

This is really of the essence for me. I quit buying ASM and FNSM primarily because of the "Other".......Watching Pete being treated like a child is simply piss poor characterization (and would not have alone, made me quit the titles)......but a characterization that can be somewhat forgiven "IF", as you said, Marvel allows Spider-man to

1/ Come to his senses and realize he's a man!!,...realize his dependance on IM and lack of confidence in general is a result of him almost dying, realize he's a hero who deserves respect from fellow superheroes, not to be talked down to or treated like a 3rd rate rookie!

2/ Hands Iron Man his a## on a platter!!

If the aforementioned are not results of this current storyline, then Pete's current status in the MU is nothing more than the poor characterization I referenced above and for me, that's inexcusable.

Exactly. I remember a Spider-Man who would mouth off until his last breath! He constantly mocked his foes, and his fellow superheroes! Remember the classic Spidey/Torch yarns? He was always mocking Johnny and never backed down! Sure, Torch could've went supernova and fired Spidey to a crisp, but Spidey never yielded! He fought the Hulk and wouldn't admit defeat! Now, he whines every six seconds about his situation.

Me, I want to see Iron Man under-estimate Spidey. Maybe Spidey knows he lied to him about Titanium Man, and discovered some of Tony's little fail-safes in the Iron Spidey suit...so when peter refuses to remove his mask, Tony tries to activate the suit's failsafe of turning invisible or into street clothes. Nothing happens, and Tony tries to remove Peter's mask by force....then a throwdown ensues where Spidey outfoxes and out-manuveurs Iron Man.

THAT'S what I want to see.

 

[stillanerd]

Exactly. I remember a Spider-Man who would mouth off until his last breath! He constantly mocked his foes, and his fellow superheroes! Remember the classic Spidey/Torch yarns? He was always mocking Johnny and never backed down! Sure, Torch could've went supernova and fired Spidey to a crisp, but Spidey never yielded! He fought the Hulk and wouldn't admit defeat! Now, he whines every six seconds about his situation.

Me, I want to see Iron Man under-estimate Spidey. Maybe Spidey knows he lied to him about Titanium Man, and discovered some of Tony's little fail-safes in the Iron Spidey suit...so when peter refuses to remove his mask, Tony tries to activate the suit's failsafe of turning invisible or into street clothes. Nothing happens, and Tony tries to remove Peter's mask by force....then a throwdown ensues where Spidey outfoxes and out-manuveurs Iron Man.

THAT'S what I want to see.

Actually, considering the "cliffhanger" in ASM #532, what if Spidey, realizing he's being made a patsy because, since S.H.I.E.L.D. already knows his identity, meaning he doesn't have to unmask in front of all those TV cameras, turns to Iron Man and says, "Hey, boss? How come YOU haven't unmasked yourself yet? You know what they say: 'ladies first.'"

 

[Doc Destruction]

It makes me wrong that I'm saying he's not a sidekick because Quesada and JMS said they screwed up?

I really don't see what that has to do with it.

Nice try, kiddo.

I was referring to your refusal to accept that the storylines these days SUCK.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Nice try, kiddo.

I was referring to your refusal to accept that the storylines these days SUCK.

And I have admitted that storylines have sucked. This is not the topic at hand.

I'll explain it again.

I'm not like a lot of people on this website, ok? Spider-Man has ALWAYS been my favorite comic book character since I was a kid. It was always Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman. Spidey stuck with me through the years and it was Spidey's comics that hit home with me the most.

I stopped reading comic books from 1998 to 2002.

When I came back to comics it was because of Brian Michael Bendis' Daredevil, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Powers. So I began picking up the Spidey books that I used to as a kid and teenager.

I really liked the Amazing Spider-Man as Ezekiel was a fascinating character and I began catching up on some things.

My favorite books were slowly becoming....not Spider-Man. While Spider-Man always will and always is going to be my favorite character, I just don't take the book as seriously as I used to.

Yes, I get upset sometimes but then it eventually fades away...because I don't take things so seriously, do you understand? I'll give you some examples:

Aunt May and Mary Jane in Iron Man armor? On a dangerous adventure with Spidey? Yeah, it was the dumbest god damn thing I had EVER seen in a Spider-Man comic book. But I laughed my ass off at how ******ed Reginald Hudlin is. When your sitting down and writing the book...how does that idea POP into your head? It doesn't cross your mind that fans will go, "How come MJ and Aunt May...who's a really old woman...are involved in this?" Yeah, Spidey was "dying" but it still made no sense.

Sins Past. When it was first coming out I was excited because JMS was going to deal with some continuity stuff. He screwed the pooch, obviously. I've admitted this. Everybody has admitted this. JMS himself. But seeing that damn drawing of Norman's face upclose like that? Creepy at first. But, man...on rereading that I really laughed my ass off. Did no one THINK? When someone was looking at that sketch of Osborn's face...no one thought, "Wow, Spidey fans are going to **** a gold brick when they see this!" Stupid. Dumb. Made ABSOLUTELY no sense. Sins Remembered was even worse. It was like killing someone and then ressurecting them only to kill them again.

Yes, if these events of Sins Past and The Other took place in 1997...yeah, I'd have dropped the books to never read them again for four years. But this isn't '97 and I'm not a pimple faced 17 year old anymore who would throw his comics across the room at the first sign of a bad story (Yes, I really did these things...Aunt May's ressurection...burned the damn issue). But it's not like that anymore. I don't take reading Spider-Man so seriously anymore. I'm a casual reader of Spider-Man. I love the characters and I just love seeing new Spidey stories.

Yeah, I'm not getting Stan Lee/Steve Ditko stories these days. I know that. I know the stories aren't like they were in the 70's. In the 80's. Even some of the 90's. It's different now.

And one thing that may separate some posters is that I want to see something NEW. I don't want to see Spider-Man battling Doc Ock for the one millionth time. I have the Essential Spider-Man books to see that over and over again if I want. JMS introduced a plethora of new ideas and characters into the story. Ezekiel, Shathra, Digger, Morlun, etc. It was awesome. Book of Ezekiel, fitting ending. The Other, went far too into the totem stuff, I agree and have agreed during The Other and after it. Yes, sometimes new can go too far and be bad...but at least it's SOMETHING new. That's the way I see it. Maybe not you, or anybody else.

Yes, I'm going to have a different viewpoint on the state of Spider-Man than most posters here. I'm not taking it as seriously and I'm out there hoping to get something new. I've been getting that ever since JMS has been on the book...and it's been one hell of a ride. Yes, there have been bad stories injected but you grit through the bad parts and try your best to accept the good parts.

In closing, Maybe you don't agree with this. Maybe you think I'm being "arrogant" as I was accused of before when explaining this. But this is the type of Spider-Man fan that I am now. Do I understand where you and others are coming from? Yes. I do know how it feels to be angry at a story being bad and then it just seems to get worse. I'm not going to drive myself insane and not read Spider-Man because of a couple bad storylines. Yes, I like the new suit. I like the possibilities it offers. Yes, I like that Spidey is on the Avengers because it allows him, and us the readers, to experience a different side of Spidey (whether you like Bendis' writing or not). And I enjoy seeing how Tony Stark is manipulating Peter and pushing him to believe his side of things...because Pete trusts him. But because I have a different view on Spider-Man and don't take the book as seriously as you, and other posters, I'm viewed as an outcast here. I'm going to stick to my guns and my viewpoints on the character.

 

[shinlyle]

Actually, considering the "cliffhanger" in ASM #532, what if Spidey, realizing he's being made a patsy because, since S.H.I.E.L.D. already knows his identity, meaning he doesn't have to unmask in front of all those TV cameras, turns to Iron Man and says, "Hey, boss? How come YOU haven't unmasked yourself yet? You know what they say: 'ladies first.'"

I have to say, after reading about the ending of ASM522, I'm hoping somethign like that happens. I mean, Peter just up and saying, "Okay, I'm unmasked in front of the whole world now! Bring it on, psychos", just doesn't sit right with me.

Like we've all said. There could be about 6 months of good stories with this, but after that, they'd all be crap.

 

[Spydernorbs]

We will all find out what happens to Peter and Mj on August 2nd. Reliable sources informs me.....

 

[Kevin]

SpideyInATree, although we don't agree on alot of things (like MJ or the fact that i LOVED sins past... yeah i said it) i also agree with you on some things. WHAT? on opinions. you have your right to your opinion and reading the posts that i just read of the argument (man, that agument went on FOREVER) i agree with you. there are ALOT worst storie then SP, by the way, will you ever come up with that list? i'd love to see it.

Another thing we agree on is that JMS brung something NEW to spider-man. reading as many spider-man comics as i have (the first 40 years on cd-rom plus more or less of the 33 issues after issue 500... damn it was alot of reading) i would be sick and sadden if i saw another fight with doc ock, or venom, or JJJ (i HATE JJJ)

i also get what you mean about not letting the bad things that happens to spider-man get to you, but although i no longer buy spider-man comics, i REALLY wont get anymore if they kill MJ. they can end the marriage and have her leave, but they do NOT have to kill her. if and when they bring her back, that's if she really goes, THEN i'll come back.

 

[SpideyInATree]

SpideyInATree, although we don't agree on alot of things (like MJ or the fact that i LOVED sins past... yeah i said it) i also agree with you on some things. WHAT? on opinions. you have your right to your opinion and reading the posts that i just read of the argument (man, that agument went on FOREVER) i agree with you. there are ALOT worst storie then SP, by the way, will you ever come up with that list? i'd love to see it.

Another thing we agree on is that JMS brung something NEW to spider-man. reading as many spider-man comics as i have (the first 40 years on cd-rom plus more or less of the 33 issues after issue 500... damn it was alot of reading) i would be sick and sadden if i saw another fight with doc ock, or venom, or JJJ (i HATE JJJ)

i also get what you mean about not letting the bad things that happens to spider-man get to you, but although i no longer buy spider-man comics, i REALLY wont get anymore if they kill MJ. they can end the marriage and have her leave, but they do NOT have to kill her. if and when they bring her back, that's if she really goes, THEN i'll come back.

Well, lets put it this way. I liked Sins Past for what it WAS. Does it really make sense in continuity? No way. It's pretty much impossible for Gwen to have been with Osborn, and have babies, even if it was going with the original plan of Peter as the father.

But as an elseworld, or what if, kind of deal...it was actually a pretty captivating story and one of a freakin' madman, Norman Osborn. But I just don't get how Quesada and JMS sat down and thought that this was going to be a good thing to do, heh. But anyway...

I have nothing against Spidey's rogue gallery or anything but it just comes to a point where, "How many times has Spider-Man fought Doctor Octopus? Or Vulture? Or Shocker? Or Mysterio? etc. etc. etc." Can't ONE writer do something different! And, yeah, JMS did that with the totem arc and the Ezekiel character, which spawned a ton of new villains for Spider-Man. Though I'm kind of saddened that The Other sort of ruined that angle though. I thought Book of Ezekiel was a very fitting ending for all of the totem plotlines. I guess they couldn't let a good thing go.

Well, I usually joke about them killing MJ. Personally, I never really liked her as a character, though under JMS I've come to enjoy her a little more, but I wouldn't be ecstatic if they killed her. Though I wouldn't really shed a tear either. Quesada has said that he doesn't want to divorce them. Though this is a guy who's said dead is dead, haha. So, you never freakin' know with Marvel anymore.

 

[Spiderluke]

If she died, I'd feel more sad for Spider-man since he's a personal favorite of mine. My problem is that Marvel says that it's too hard to write stories for a married superhero but I think they are not trying enough.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

I am 22 years old. I started reading spider-man when I was about 10.

For me Peter Parker has always been married to Mary-Jane. I don't even know who this Gwen Stacy person is. Other than that she was droped off a bridge.

I grew up with Mary Jane. And alot of other spider fans did too. You can't just change somthing that ingrained in people's heads.

Don't rape my childhood Joe Q.

He wouldn't rape your childhood, he'd have Norman Osborn rape your mum in a huge real-life retcon and hence be your father. ahem, sorry... went loopy for a sec there. You must know who gwen is: u read the clone saga right? she had a part to play..sins past? u must know more than the bridge bit!

 

[Spiderluke]

He wouldn't rape your childhood, he'd have Norman Osborn rape your mum in a huge real-life retcon and hence be your father. ahem, sorry... went loopy for a sec there. You must know who gwen is: u read the clone saga right? she had a part to play..sins past? u must know more than the bridge bit!

I wouldn't go that far. They never do spend oodles of time on the Gwen death in the books. It's kinda like, "She's dead, it was sad" kind of thing and I kinda liked it that way. Then fatman comes by, "I have an idea that will really turn Spider-man in the right direction." Boardroom is silent and listening. "Let's make Gwen the mother of two of Norman Ozzy's children!" Boardroom throws fire at him.