Transformers Pictures Discussion Thread

[Crimson King]

ILM has really outdone themselves. These pictures are outstanding.

 

[Nathan]

Meh.. still got something to nitpick about Jazz. He really looks great, but I simply don't like those hands of his. Why can't he have normal hands like the rest of the Autobots?

 

[Avangarde]

That doesn't mean design is acceptable and fans shouldn't demand better.

I look at the Iron Man costume and I don't demand better. Why? because I understand it would be extremely difficult to do a better Iron Man suit. The Bay designs are the opposite. Any small time SFX company could do far better concept art based on G1 Jazz.

I'd hate to think what Micheal (Pearl Harbor missed the point) Bay and Don (LXG, Double Dragon) Murphy would've done with the Iron Man suit. But then their supporters would be on every thread defending every pointless change, never for once asking themselves if something far better was possible.

Don't get me wrong, I have been upset from day 1 with a lot of the TF designs, and yes I believe the designs could have been a lot closer to G1 and yet have a modern look. However at this stage I am going for the "lesser of two evils" so to speak. If I had to compare Starscream and Megatrons designs to Prime and Jazz I would go with the Autobots without a doubt.

 

[Theweepeople]

That is simply not true. You would need to have an understanding of the policies of the Screenwriters Guild to understand what I mean. Because he was the first writer hired for the project he has to get credit, even if NONE of his original text remains. Secondly, Orci and Kurtzman were hired before Michael Bay was hired and their rewrites were initiated by the studio and Hasbro.

Good point. Kevin Smith wrote a script for the infamous Superman Lives project and WB decided not to use any of his ideas after signing Tim Burton and Brett Ratner to direct. However, legally they were required to pay him 20 million dollars for his services and he would have gotten writing credit had the project not fallen apart.

Something similar happened with Zak Penn's involvement with X-Men United. He has writing credits for that movie yet he admitted in an interview that Singer didn't use any of his ideas. Thank God his ideas were ignored.

Finally, I could be mistaken but, I'm sure I read that John Roger's script was completely changed a year and a half ago by the other writers.

 

[Theweepeople]

I've liked most of the designs except for Starscream, Megatron, and Frenzy. There is an explanation for Megatron's design so I learned to accept it. Frenzy still looks like crap but, was never a popular G1 character so learned to accept his horrible looking design. Starsceam's original design for this film still makes me puke. What's sad is the latest image of his design is 10X better than the original and it still could use a significant amount of improvement. I can barely accept this design.

 

[CFlash]

That is simply not true. You would need to have an understanding of the policies of the Screenwriters Guild to understand what I mean. Because he was the first writer hired for the project he has to get credit, even if NONE of his original text remains. Secondly, Orci and Kurtzman were hired before Michael Bay was hired and their rewrites were initiated by the studio and Hasbro.

So why doesn't Kevin Smith get credit for Superman Returns and Daredevil? As far as he tells it, he was hired, given a salary and everything, and then his script ultimately not used. But, yeah, I'm not an expert in this. I suspect what you say isn't true at all... it would be the only job ever to function this way. No court would ever backup such an agreement. (and, without citing any of my background, I would say THAT I do know).

As for the Orci/Kurtzman thing, I could also be wrong, but this is what Michael Bay has said or alluded to. He did not sign on until they agreed to the rewrites (and that personal merchandising deal with Hasbro). Since he worked with Orci and Kurtzman on The Island also, it stands to reason they were hired (by whomever) to work on his project with Michael Bay's approval if not his request.

 

[bluejake01]

So why doesn't Kevin Smith get credit for Superman Returns and Daredevil? As far as he tells it, he was hired, given a salary and everything, and then his script ultimately not used. But, yeah, I'm not an expert in this. I suspect what you say isn't true at all... it would be the only job ever to function this way. No court would ever backup such an agreement. (and, without citing any of my background, I would say THAT I do know).

Superman Returns is not the same project as Superman Reborn. They were completely seperate projects. I will have to research Daredevil, but I am almost certain he didn't complete any draft.



As for Transformers

Writing credits
Roberto Orci (screenplay) &
Alex Kurtzman (screenplay)


Roberto Orci (story) &
Alex Kurtzman (story) and
John Rogers (story)


http://www.wgaeast.org/mba/credits/screen/2003/10/07/screen3/index1.html

"a. Percentage Requirements


Any writer whose work represents a contribution of more than 33% of a screenplay shall be entitled to screenplay credit, except where the screenplay is an original screenplay. In the case of an original screenplay, any subsequent writer or writing team must contribute 50% to the final screenplay."


I don't know that I can make this any clearer. You can look it up at the site I provided, and as always there is room for arbitration, but...if more than 33% of John Rogers screenplay remained he would HAVE to have screenplay credit, not just story credit. You will also see that Orci and Kurtzman have story credit as well, meaning that some of the basic story ideas come from them as well. They would have to write a 100% different story to cut John Rogers name out of the story credit, and that would be very hard to do. I don't know how many of Rogers' ideas remain, but no more than 33% of his screenplay remains, that much is certain.

This is a very strange business, and if you'd stop being so stand offish I can share personal experience and knowledge of how the process works, and how the Hollywood machine functions. I am not a name dropper, but I have friends that have worked on Transformers. I have seen some of the vehicles in person.

 

[AyeCapn]

Out of respect for a promise I made to Hunter Rider, I won't take your bait. I've responded to you via PM.

No one picks on my CFlash but me

 

[Cth]

Superman Returns is not the same project as Superman Reborn. They were completely seperate projects. I will have to research Daredevil, but I am almost certain he didn't complete any draft.
Any writer whose work represents a contribution of more than 33% of a screenplay shall be entitled to screenplay credit, except where the screenplay is an original screenplay. In the case of an original screenplay, any subsequent writer or writing team must contribute 50% to the final screenplay."

[..]

This is a very strange business, and if you'd stop being so stand offish I can share personal experience and knowledge of how the process works, and how the Hollywood machine functions. I am not a name dropper, but I have friends that have worked on Transformers. I have seen some of the vehicles in person.

Thanks for finally clearing this up.

I'm always up for hearing more about how stuff like this works.

And it's cool.. I've avoided doing some name dropping as well, but I've got nowhere near the sources you do

 

[AyeCapn]

It's still pretty bad. You could have 20 small time SFX companies do concept art of a live-action G1 Jazz and 95% of them would look a million times better than that piece of s--t.

I understand the onslaught of horrible Bayformer designs causes fatigue in any hardcore TF fan but we cannot lower our standards. That's exactly what the producers want.

You are running on a lot of momentum. The designs are finalized. No amount of fan uprising can change the film now. It is probably a week or two away from lock. Why do you keep complaining? You gave it a shot, and were not successful in your efforts. Time to move on.

 

[cosmicherosa]

You are running on a lot of momentum. The designs are finalized. No amount of fan uprising can change the film now. It is probably a week or two away from lock. Why do you keep complaining? You gave it a shot, and were not successful in your efforts. Time to move on.

Yea I agree. Your arguement is stale now. We ALL know what your complaints are so just stop complaining or just take it in the rear end by the "Bayformers" machine like the rest of us. That seems to be the only thing happening with this whole 80's revival crap nowadays in hollywood.

I swear.....if Ben Affleck is hired for G.I. Joe: The Movie Movie I will stab a young midget.

 

[Golgo-13]

I love this Megatron pic. Very detailed when you up load the full size version from the pics only thread.

 

[CFlash]

Superman Returns is not the same project as Superman Reborn. They were completely seperate projects. I will have to research Daredevil, but I am almost certain he didn't complete any draft.

As for Transformers
Writing credits
Roberto Orci (screenplay) &
Alex Kurtzman (screenplay)
Roberto Orci (story) &
Alex Kurtzman (story) and
John Rogers (story)

http://www.wgaeast.org/mba/credits/screen/2003/10/07/screen3/index1.html

"a. Percentage Requirements

Any writer whose work represents a contribution of more than 33% of a screenplay shall be entitled to screenplay credit, except where the screenplay is an original screenplay. In the case of an original screenplay, any subsequent writer or writing team must contribute 50% to the final screenplay."

I don't know that I can make this any clearer. You can look it up at the site I provided, and as always there is room for arbitration, but...if more than 33% of John Rogers screenplay remained he would HAVE to have screenplay credit, not just story credit. You will also see that Orci and Kurtzman have story credit as well, meaning that some of the basic story ideas come from them as well. They would have to write a 100% different story to cut John Rogers name out of the story credit, and that would be very hard to do.

I thought you said "he has to get credit, even if NONE of his original text remains." Now you're saying something something a bit different. My point is that the script (or story if you will) was not "completely rewritten" which was what I originally stated. So we have no argument. We actually agree.

You make a great point about screenplay vs story though.

 

[DorkyFresh]

i noticed Jazz's head is different in these 3 renders...

 

[Dr Lee]

Where'd you find these MM?

 

[millennium movies]

Damn i always forget to link...

http://www.flickr.com/groups/transformersmovie/pool/

 

[bluejake01]

I thought you said "he has to get credit, even if NONE of his original text remains." Now you're saying something something a bit different. My point is that the script (or story if you will) was not "completely rewritten" which was what I originally stated. So we have no argument. We actually agree.

You make a great point about screenplay vs story though.

I did say that and meant it. In order to get story credit there just has to remain the idea of the basic story. Transformers land on Earth, search for artifact and defend against Decepticons. None of his original text has to remain in the final screenplay to get story credit. BUT if more than 33% of his original text remained then he would have to get story credit AND Screenplay credit.


Rewrites mean a lot of different things in Hollywood. Some rewrites consist of doctoring the script slightly, some involve changing/deleting/adding major set pieces and dialog, and some involve rewriting the whole thing based on the shell of the story idea. I would venture that by the time they were done rewriting John Rogers' first attempt that it would be unrecognizable, save for the basic story elements.

 

[AyeCapn]

The leaked script was a rewrite of John Rogers' orginal script. We don;t know how many revisions were done by K&O by the time it was leaked. I'd love to get hold of John Rogers original screenplay that he submitted to compare just what changes were made.

 

[AyeCapn]

speak of the devil: http://www.movieweb.com/news/51/14751.php

Newsarama: On the subject of your films, you wrote a script for the upcoming live-action Transformers movie. Knowing that screenwriting is a particular sort of collaboration, how much resemblance will the finished movie bear to your original concept?

John Rogers: Yep, I wrote the first draft. I've seen the shooting script, and it's about half and half. They've moved one of the storylines a little earlier, and they've increased the big military aspect, whereas I had focused on some of the smaller, personal stories. Yeah, you know, I get a credit, we'll see. We'll see what it looks like eventually. It goes from me, to the other guys, who work quite extensively with Michael Bay, so using what he needs to get his vision across. The characters are the same, the rough plot's the same, and I've seen the mock-ups of the battles and it's gonna be frickin' huge. It'll be a lot of fun to see.

 

[CFlash]

speak of the devil: http://www.movieweb.com/news/51/14751.php

Newsarama: On the subject of your films, you wrote a script for the upcoming live-action Transformers movie. Knowing that screenwriting is a particular sort of collaboration, how much resemblance will the finished movie bear to your original concept?

John Rogers: Yep, I wrote the first draft. I've seen the shooting script, and it's about half and half. They've moved one of the storylines a little earlier, and they've increased the big military aspect, whereas I had focused on some of the smaller, personal stories. Yeah, you know, I get a credit, we'll see. We'll see what it looks like eventually. It goes from me, to the other guys, who work quite extensively with Michael Bay, so using what he needs to get his vision across. The characters are the same, the rough plot's the same, and I've seen the mock-ups of the battles and it's gonna be frickin' huge. It'll be a lot of fun to see.

Yeah, AyeCapn, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but that's basically saying its the same script... straight from the horses mouth. Half and Half? Same story? One part moved earlier? In other words, the same thing... tweaked for Michael Bay's style and vision.

Personally, to me, a complete rewrite would mean the cliched MacGuffin Artifact story would be completely thrown out in favor of a more substantive sci-fi story like the natural resources thing that the original Transformers was all about. I may be a hippe... but to me that was the absolute heart of Transformers.

 

[millennium movies]

i noticed Jazz's head is different in these 3 renders...

Those heads are the same ^! It only looks different due to the visor being slightly blue and the lighting on the bot. Maybe i missed it, but i haven't notice anyone mentioning the autobot logo on his forehead.

 

[AyeCapn]

Yeah, AyeCapn, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but that's basically saying its the same script... straight from the horses mouth. Half and Half? Same story? One part moved earlier? In other words, the same thing... tweaked for Michael Bay's style and vision.

Personally, to me, a complete rewrite would mean the cliched MacGuffin Artifact story would be completely thrown out in favor of a more substantive sci-fi story like the natural resources thing that the original Transformers was all about. I may be a hippe... but to me that was the absolute heart of Transformers.

yup. Sounds like the same thing to me.

and you're no hippie

 

[Whill-Robinson]

We're definitely seeing two different Jazz heads here. I you look at the centre piece above the visor, the shapes are not the same.

I think that the recent advert pics that we've seen are probably of the final render.

 

[Dr Lee]

The two heads are different sizes to me.

The top on is a lot thinner than the bottom one

 

[bluejake01]

Yeah, AyeCapn, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but that's basically saying its the same script... straight from the horses mouth. Half and Half? Same story? One part moved earlier? In other words, the same thing... tweaked for Michael Bay's style and vision.

Personally, to me, a complete rewrite would mean the cliched MacGuffin Artifact story would be completely thrown out in favor of a more substantive sci-fi story like the natural resources thing that the original Transformers was all about. I may be a hippe... but to me that was the absolute heart of Transformers.

What you are refering to would be a whole new script...not a rewrite.