Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

I'm not sure you really want me to have in on that. :p

If you're constructive and specific in your criticism, then actually, yes, you'd be very important to that discussion. It might be harder for all the Jane fans (I'm sure we are plural!) to look at her critically. So we're at risk of sounding like an echo chamber.

well it's a little different from BW. She was trying to sweet talk and manipulate him, and acting like she was above him when he knew perfectly well she'd done some horrible things... so that kinda pissed him off I think.

Aha.

Jane would be different, as anything she'd say would be much more sincere, and she's never set a hospital on fire, or been hired to kill people, so there's that one good thing about her. :woot: We don't know what exactly his attitude will be after Frigga dies either. He may be really hurting and much more open to talking civilly to another caring female than you might think at that point.

If you think. I certainly would be glad for Jane to make a positive contribution somehow. I'm just trying to be wary of pushing her into Mary Sue territory.

What I had been thinking of is this: to reach out to someone is to extend oneself, to some extent, to be vulnerable. I was supposing Loki might see this vulnerability as a golden opportunity to really hurt his brother. He had succeeded in getting to Natasha, so I would suppose he would be successful in getting to Jane.

On the other hand, Loki might appreciate the candor: "I actually hate you. But Thor loves you, and for his sake I am making this effort."

Or maybe she could break the ice by talking about how she ran his brother over with the car. Maybe that would cause him to decide that she's all right :woot:.

(And let us be glad that Jane has not tried to set a hospital on fire, deliberately or inadvertently :woot:)


unfortunately, if they cut any scenes showing her worth in that capacity, then it IS boring and a negative. So I don't want to see her there perpetuating that.

Agreed. But there's only so much room in any story.

one BIG problem is a happy marriage on screen is very often boring and extremely difficult to keep interesting. That's why the fairy tales always end with "and they lived happily ever after", and why when soap opera couples get together finally, they are only happy for about 5 minutes before something terrible happens,
And why it's a classic "jump the shark" moment in TV shows.

storywise it is boring unless they then kidnap her or cause some other danger to her to keep their relationship interesting and keep Jane in the story that way (which I know you don't like the idea of her being the damsel in distress).

True, which is one reason why I'm keeping this thought on the back burner. (Although again I note that Pepper basically was parked off-camera in The Avengers when the story started to develop. It's boring, but at least on-going.)

At least with Sif she can go on adventures with him, and fight beside him, and hopefully not be put into the "damsel in distress" situation much if ever, (and she could certainly get herself out of jams without necessarily needing Thor to come save her)

Well, the writers could put her in over her head too if that's what they want to do.

Now Frigga does have worth in that story and to that family, especially if they want us to believe that Thor and Loki will in Thor 2 decide to put their feelings aside and work together due to her death. But they cut her scenes with them showing their relationship in Thor 1, for whatever reason, so I hope to hell they make up for that in Thor 2 prior to her death because otherwise her death will not have appropriate impact on the story, and it will not really feel "real" that her sons react the way they do. (especially Loki)

I agree!
 
In Avengers when Selvig is talking about the cube he refers to it as female... he calls it a she. At first glance this isn't very important. But something working through the cube is almost self aware and tells Selvig and Hawkeye what they needed to get Loki far enough. The power of the cube tells them what to do for Loki, what they need/their next target.. it tells Selvig about iridium and anti-protons which will be important... It told them what they would need ahead of time, but it also lets Selvig free from its grip and Loki's control at the end... It betrayed Loki by letting Selvig put in a kill switch... Part of the cube, or something working through the cube may have a mind of its own...

That's a very interesting idea! It could be, and they might not even use that sentience in this film, saving it instead for something down the road.


<Kat Dennings as Hela>
The only reason I think it could work is because the actress said she wants to become someone else. . . In one video interview where she talked about the future of her character she seemed to be almost hinting that she would become someone eventually. There's a couple other quotes of her saying similar stuff.

Could you dig up those links and post them? They would be interesting.
 
What I had been thinking of is this: to reach out to someone is to extend oneself, to some extent, to be vulnerable. I was supposing Loki might see this vulnerability as a golden opportunity to really hurt his brother. He had succeeded in getting to Natasha, so I would suppose he would be successful in getting to Jane.

On the other hand, Loki might appreciate the candor: "I actually hate you. But Thor loves you, and for his sake I am making this effort."

Or maybe she could break the ice by talking about how she ran his brother over with the car. Maybe that would cause him to decide that she's all right :woot:.

(And let us be glad that Jane has not tried to set a hospital on fire, deliberately or inadvertently :woot:)

Although I'm sure the squirrel, raccoon, roadkill death toll is quite high for her, so that may not be so pleasing to Loki, we all know he has an um... *ahem* Special relationship with animals in the myths. :p

Loki would likely offer to chip info gas if she'd try to run over Thor again. LOL

and yes he could see it as a golden opportunity to take advantage and hurt Thor, or he could be vulnerable enough himself to be effected by her concern, after Frigga's death. All depends on how they decide to write it. It would bring value to her position as Thor's love interest if she could help bring the brother's back together somehow, though.


True, which is one reason why I'm keeping this thought on the back burner. (Although again I note that Pepper basically was parked off-camera in The Avengers when the story started to develop. It's boring, but at least on-going.)

Pepper has at least got value that is shown in the way she certainly runs things for Tony while he is busy with superhero business. I can't see Jane running asgard for Thor in his absence. I think some Asgardians might have a problem with that, for one, and not just Loki.
 
That's a very interesting idea! It could be, and they might not even use that sentience in this film, saving it instead for something down the road.
<Kat Dennings as Hela>

Could you dig up those links and post them? They would be interesting.

Yeah, because I really greatly prefer to read what the actor or actress or whoever actually said than depend on second hand interpretation, because oftentimes that is not correct interpretation, and someone is just reading into it what they want. (which I've been known to do myself, but at least I usually provide the exact quote and source, so people can differ with me on that interpretation if they want)
 
Pepper has at least got value that is shown in the way she certainly runs things for Tony while he is busy with superhero business. I can't see Jane running asgard for Thor in his absence. I think some Asgardians might have a problem with that, for one, and not just Loki.

I thought Pepper was running Stark Industries full time, even when Tony is not doing superhero stuff. (So that's her field, all she knows, as opposed to fighting).

I agree that Jane is not likely to have the support of (at least some of, perhaps all of) the people, even if she has nothing to do with running Asgard.
 
I thought Pepper was running Stark Industries full time, even when Tony is not doing superhero stuff.

You're right.

I guess I might as well post this here if anyone wants to discuss...

What I Know About “Thor 2”
Okay, for everyone FREAKING THE HELL OUT about “Thor 2” and Loki, let me put your mind at ease:
I can tell you that I know someone who worked on the set of “Thor 2”. He was actually at university with me and he got work with the lighting company on this particular flick. I can’t guarantee that his word is gospel, but he did tell me two things. And let me preface this by saying, he is a lighting tech. He has no real access to the full script and as a lighting tech, he isn’t required to know every single gory detail about the story (nor does he really care). He did tell me, however, that, yes, a main character does die; someone important. He said it was a heart-wrenching scene, but he assured me that my “Hiddles love will go untainted”.
He wasn’t very specific because, honestly, he doesn’t know. He never saw “Thor” and he was somewhat of a fan of the “Avengers”, but not a nerd like me. He also said he didn’t want to spoil me. He knows I’m a huge fan of Loki and he assured me that there is plenty of Loki love in this film.
When I asked him about “Avengers 2”, he said he had no idea and that he probably wouldn’t work on that film. Contractually, he’s not aloud to say anything (hence why I am not linking him/addressing him) about “Thor 2” and he shouldn’t have even told me that much.
He did say the costumes were pretty bangin’ tho. And that, as far as he could tell, Hiddles wore extensions, not a wig. ;)
http://razmakaz.tumblr.com/post/38449420422/what-i-know-about-thor-2


He is wrong about the extensions, definitely a wig, but I suppose that's a good sign that it's a really GOOD one, if he couldn't tell. LOL

Now, a confirmation that a major character dies, and it's a heartwrenching scene, which would seem to point to Frigga. Also it would seem like she may die in front of Thor and/or Odin and not alone (not sure how she'd die in front of Loki, unless it actually happened at the prison)

He knows I’m a huge fan of Loki and he assured me that there is plenty of Loki love in this film.

Hmmm.... I'm trying so hard to not get my hopes up for Sigyn to appear but that's not helping. LOL :whatever:
 
Now, a confirmation that a major character dies, and it's a heartwrenching scene, which would seem to point to Frigga. Also it would seem like she may die in front of Thor and/or Odin and not alone (not sure how she'd die in front of Loki, unless it actually happened at the prison)

If she's mortally wounded, and they bring Loki up so he can see her one last time.

But you're right--more likely to be in front of Odin and/or Thor. And it would be heartwrenching. Especially for Odin:

There is no lonelier man in death, except the suicide, than that man who has lived many years with a good wife and then outlived her. If two people love each other there can be no happy end to it. --Ernest Hemingway
Hmmm.... I'm trying so hard to not get my hopes up for Sigyn to appear but that's not helping. LOL :whatever:

It seems like a longer shot. But they did say they're doing something that hasn't been done before. (It might be easier to incorporate as flashbacks, perhaps?)
 
If she's mortally wounded, and they bring Loki up so he can see her one last time.
But you're right--more likely to be in front of Odin and/or Thor. And it would be heartwrenching. Especially for Odin:

Yeah, it's likely she dies in front of one or both of them and Loki hears of it later.

It seems like a longer shot. But they did say they're doing something that hasn't been done before. (It might be easier to incorporate as flashbacks, perhaps?)

I think they may be referring as Loki and Thor working together as the thing they haven't done before, "new recipe with the same ingredients".

I'm hoping for a flashback but not enough time to cover that probably. LOL... can't make it TOO big/long.

where the Hel is that trailer already?!?!?!?!?!

or at least some official stills... :csad:
 
You cannot have an all male team. Its' just not acceptable. ~ Joss Whedon re: Avengers

just came upon/reminded of that quote.... so yeah, I'd say if he's going the team of villains route there WILL be at least one female villain included.
 
That's a very interesting idea! It could be, and they might not even use that sentience in this film, saving it instead for something down the road.


<Kat Dennings as Hela>


Could you dig up those links and post them? They would be interesting.

I'm working on it now but it was closer to the release of Thor. I'm thinking that it's on a talkshow but I know I've seen it. Someone posted an article on this site from around the same time, where she says something similar. I'm thinking she was a guest when she mentioned this, probably Conan or Craig Ferguson because that's pretty much all I watch.
I'll keep looking. But there's also an article that talks about it I'm having trouble finding. I think someone here posted it a while back when talking about Darcy, like relatively recently.
 
I'm working on it now but it was closer to the release of Thor. I'm thinking that it's on a talkshow but I know I've seen it. Someone posted an article on this site from around the same time, where she says something similar. I'm thinking she was a guest when she mentioned this, probably Conan or Craig Ferguson because that's pretty much all I watch.
I'll keep looking. But there's also an article that talks about it I'm having trouble finding. I think someone here posted it a while back when talking about Darcy, like relatively recently.

As of May this year, and even later if I recall correctly, she didn't know if she was coming back at all. As of August 21 (or around then) there is a report that she was coming back and either the word extended or expanded role was used by most media as if that word came from her. Most certainly the script was done by then as I believe they started production, so why not have such a big part as Hela/Darcy all signed up and set WELL before then? Particularly knowing she's busy with a series and probably other offers?

But in any case I've not found her exact quote regarding that. I would like that before I take that all too seriously because I think extended/expanded could simply mean she's coming back not necessarily more screentime, and then twisted by media and fans into something else. And if she said something around the release of Thor like "gee it would be cool if Darcy turned into something else" then that really can't be taken seriously as a spoiler. I'm sorry. She has no say what so ever in what they decide to do as far as that all goes, and she certainly wouldnt' have any idea if they'd have even had another Thor at that point.

Example how media can take a quote from an actor and make it something it isn't. Recently Zach was asked if he was shirtless in Thor 2, he said he wasnt' and yet the title of the article read something like Zach Levi talks being shirtless in Thor 2 with Chris Hemsworth. Also in that article Zach said there is lots of "eye candy" other than him, somehow with both fans on twitter and tumblr and even articles in some places, that became Tom and Chris are shirtless in Thor 2 :whatever: which is absolutely NOT what he said. He simply said lots of eye candy as in people are lookin' good. There have been other times quotes have been twisted and taken wrong. I've yet to come up with her exact quote, but I'd say it would have to be in August sometime.
 
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As of May this year, and even later if I recall correctly, she didn't know if she was coming back at all. As of August 21 (or around then) there is a report that she was coming back and either the word extended or expanded role was used by most media as if that word came from her. Most certainly the script was done by then as I believe they started production, so why not have such a big part as Hela/Darcy all signed up and set WELL before then? Particularly knowing she's busy with a series and probably other offers?

But in any case I've not found her exact quote regarding that. I would like that before I take that all too seriously because I think extended/expanded could simply mean she's coming back not necessarily more screentime, and then twisted by media and fans into something else. And if she said something around the release of Thor like "gee it would be cool if Darcy turned into something else" then that really can't be taken seriously as a spoiler. I'm sorry. She has no say what so ever in what they decide to do as far as that all goes, and she certainly wouldnt' have any idea if they'd have even had another Thor at that point.

Example how media can take a quote from an actor and make it something it isn't. Recently Zach was asked if he was shirtless in Thor 2, he said he wasnt' and yet the title of the article read something like Zach Levi talks being shirtless in Thor 2 with Chris Hemsworth. Also in that article Zach said there is lots of "eye candy" other than him, somehow with both fans on twitter and tumblr and even articles in some places, that became Tom and Chris are shirtless in Thor 2 :whatever: which is absolutely NOT what he said. He simply said lots of eye candy as in people are lookin' good. There have been other times quotes have been twisted and taken wrong. I've yet to come up with her exact quote, but I'd say it would have to be in August sometime.

I'm not saying it's a spoiler, the only thing I've said I'm 100% certain of is that Janet Van Dyne will be added to the Avengers by the time Avengers 2 happens ;) Before then

This I know for sure... and in no way really relates to anything I've speculated here, not that I know for sure. I've heard other things. I just surrounded that little tidbit with all my Hela speculation and everything else ;)
Some other things I have to take secondhand and work into my theories.
Like the stuff about Sterns. I have heard some things about Sterns...

I'm having trouble finding the exact interview too because I can't find her talking about Thor in the Conan episode. I'm really thinking that could be the one it's from. You're right though, it doesn't amount to much because she didn't know whether or not she was returning.

However, she did seem to know before she was allowed to talk about it, and as we know she was returning. Could just be marvel keeping everything secretive but there's a number of articles like this stating she knew the fate of her character but wasn't allowed to say yet. Before it was revealed she was returning.

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/06/20/kat-dennings-thor-2-return/

"I do know the answer to that," Dennings told the site. "[However] I do not have the clearance to talk... interpret that as you will. ... I've asked when I can say things, but apparently I can't yet, so that will come soon."


It's like she found out she was returning even before the time of this article but was told not to say anything. Around this time is when she says she knows if she's in it, but can't say.

Deadline and other sites have reported that Darcy will have an expanded role. I think some of the stuff about her expanded role is coming from things beyond her reprising her role. Some of them were mentioning that it was because her show is popular etc. I'll try to find some of those articles.
We don't really see much about Selvig's role being expanded, but then again his role was already pretty big in Avengers.
 
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I'm not saying it's a spoiler, the only thing I've said I'm 100% certain of is that Janet Van Dyne will be added to the Avengers by the time Avengers 2 happens ;)

This I know for sure... and in no way really relates to anything I've speculated here, not that I know for sure. I have heard other things. I just surrounded that little tidbit with all my Hela speculation and everything else ;)
Some other things I have to take secondhand and work into my theories.
Like the stuff about Sterns. I have heard some things about Sterns...

I'm having trouble finding the exact interview too because I can't find her talking about Thor in the Conan episode. I'm really thinking that could be the one it's from. You're right though, it doesn't amount to much because she didn't know whether or not she was returning.

However, she did seem to know before she was allowed to talk about it, and as we know she was returning. Could just be marvel keeping everything secretive but there's a number of articles like this stating she knew the fate of her character but wasn't allowed to say yet. Before it was revealed she was returning.

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/06/20/kat-dennings-thor-2-return/

It's like she found out she was returning even before the time of this article but was told not to say anything. Around this time is when she says she knows if she's in it, but can't say.

Deadline and other sites have reported that Darcy will have an expanded role. I'll try to find some of those articles.
We don't really see much about Selvig's role being expanded, but then again his role was already pretty big in Avengers.

*sigh* again article writers and fans twisty-twisting what is said.:cmad: She was probably simply in talks with them at that time to return as Darcy (and only Darcy), but wasn't allowed to speak about it by her agent and/or marvel until that was definite. I've seen actors fall into that more than once before. They can't talk simply because they are IN talks. And then the article writer then twists it into, oh, maybe she'll be the Enchantress! :whatever:

The importance of her role was stated in the second paragraph, "grounded" the movie, and "comic relief" both of which are still very much needed if they are going to go out more into other realms. They need Darcy to stay Darcy.

and again, the word "expanded" if she used it herself, may only have meant that she's coming back period. It's awfully strange for them to have written the script and gone into production without having secured the return of the actress who was in it before, and now has an "expanded" role, if that were correct. Which I suspect it is not.
 
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*sigh* again article writers and fans twisty-twisting what is said.:cmad: She was probably simply in talks with them at that time to return as Darcy (and only Darcy), but wasn't allowed to speak about it by her agent and/or marvel until that was definite. I've seen actors fall into that more than once before. They can't talk simply because they are IN talks. And then the article writer then twists it into, oh, maybe she'll be the Enchantress! :whatever:

The importance of her role was stated in the second paragraph, "grounded" the movie, and "comic relief" both of which are still very much needed if they are going to go out more into other realms. They need Darcy to stay Darcy.

and again, the word "expanded" if she used it herself, may only have meant that she's coming back period. It's awfully strange for them to have written the script and gone into production without having secured the return of the actress who was in it before, and now has an "expanded" role, if that were correct. Which I suspect it is not.

Maybe so.
You have to look at everything though. This isn't where it says her role would be expanded. We only, apparently, find that out a little later when it's revealed she's in the movie. That item of still questionable info came around the time that she was announced. But at this point she would have known some of her role. She would have known a lot about the details of her role at that time--if she'd signed on or was considering it and couldn't talk. Even if her role is only slightly more significant. They also had to make sure the schedules could work with her show. I believe some of the people at screenrant know what they're talking about in terms of her expanded role, others may be twisting her words. It's clear to me that she would remain the comic relief, but I think they can approach that from a darker angle. Even in Darcy's character there's a little bit of apathy. A number of times they said her character was already expanded from the original plan in Thor and evolved with Dennings portrayal. I think there's a slightly darker side to Darcy waiting to be unleashed. I think the writers knew what they were doing, even though Dennings didn't, and there is a way for her character to evolve into Hela. Whether they go that direction is another thing. After Thor, Dennings also said she had wanted to be involved in any way possible and actually reads the comics, how excited she was to work with and learn from Branagh. These are things she repeats in a couple interviews and easy to find. Just some things I picked up looking through the videos for that one video. In one video she said Darcy is so many things but that's definitely talking about her humorous aspects.

I don't know to be honest. I just think there will be a lot more to her role.
Maybe she simply has a bigger hand in saving the day with Selvig and Jane's research.
Although, she described her own character as lazy and apathetic. But again it's nothing concrete and you almost have to look at the bigger picture of what could they do with her character if she does have an expanded role? Is she there just to help Selvig with Jane's research or does she have more significance and a darker sense of humor? Hela is related to the trickster god in the comics/myth after all.

Some of those articles were really saying that the studio is interested in expanding her role because of the popularity of the show and claimed inside sources at marvel that said her role had been expanded because of this. Screenrant doesn't really do that, their more vague than most but I think there's some basis to it. With what we know about this movie I'm trying to figure out where Darcy fits in. It could just be they do a lot of helping back on Earth.

Here's the screenrant one, it doesn't really say much about how they arrived at her "expanded role"
http://screenrant.com/thor-2-kat-dennings/

I'll try to get a bunch of the videos that might have subtle clues together for another post. Still having trouble finding the one from way back, but yeah she prob wouldn't have known for sure back then if something like this is the case.

Maybe she dies early in the movie or something.

Maybe she dies and comes back after Jane leaves Midgard.
Maybe Darcy goes through Hel and this changes the relationship between her Thor and Jane.

Makes it more important for Jane to help Thor save everyone else back on Midgard, but they don't know Darcy will be used against them and has returned from death until they get back to Midgard at the end.
 
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It's all rumors though, and really shouldn't be presented as fact in this thread if that's all it is. That's how people will wind up not taking your predictions and this thread seriously, if you present your ideas as fact all the time with the way you write them. (unless you have something absolutely solid and concrete that you can share to back it up). Note the vast majority of the things I propose I use the words "maybe" and other speculative phrasing if it is my speculation, I'm not claiming to know anything for certain (other that what everyone else knows for spoilers and solid/likely rumors) and try not to give the impression that I do. Because if I do that and I am wrong, then my name is mud. isn't it?
 
It's all rumors though, and really shouldn't be presented as fact in this thread if that's all it is. That's how people will wind up not taking your predictions and this thread seriously, if you present your ideas as fact all the time with the way you write them. (unless you have something absolutely solid and concrete that you can share to back it up). Note the vast majority of the things I propose I use the words "maybe" and other speculative phrasing if it is my speculation, I'm not claiming to know anything for certain (other that what everyone else knows for spoilers and solid/likely rumors) and try not to give the impression that I do. Because if I do that and I am wrong, then my name is mud. isn't it?

I deliberately blur the line between my speculation and some of the things I've picked up. I have to write it that way so you can't tell where one begins and ends and exactly how much I know. If I actually know the actions of Sterns I would get in a lot of trouble. But hinting that there are talks about Sterns is all good, I could have heard about these talks from a number of people.... Theorizing how that might work doesn't mean I have all the things right, but within some of my theories certain things are right. making it look like it's all correct, all speculation, or everything that would happen in such theories works in my favor. Because it's probably not even close to what will really happen. Some of the pieces are right, so some of the theories/speculation could be right... No one at the studio can know how I'm arriving at the ends of some of my theories, because I've shown some of how they connect. For instance I'll only sometimes say "may" or add something like maybe when not even convinced myself. Usually I write it that way on purpose from the standpoint of "if this happens, then this happens" and add in a ton of my own speculation, drawing from the comics and my source. Following through to the conclusion of the theories before I started weaving them together. This way it's all still speculative but somewhat predictive at the same time. For future reference I'll only guarantee certain things like the Jan thing and things I've heard about Sterns. I'll take note and make it all seem more speculative. To clarify I don't know if Hela's in this movie, haven't heard anything about her from my source, but I'm theorizing about how they get a Thor villain in the MoE when they inevitably come about. Certain things like Ultron I've only heard are on the horizon, I have no clue how it all ties together and I suspect Wardell doesn't either... In a way I'm mirroring him. But I'm actually saying
Szostak is Wasp in IM3, not just hinting at the belief and saying it will surprise fans. Among other things i'll clarify a little later. Once enough people have hit upon some possibilities. As far as I know I'm the first to say anything about Sterns returning... So I will say new things... Eventually I'll clarify some of the true pieces, although it'll be in posts separate from what I said about them in other posts. I know it's all very confusing...but I can't reveal the actions of some of the pieces... Nor can I, or Wardell, or any other insider/possible insider even really know the full picture when Marvel is so secretive.

lately I've been going for a certain degree of unbelievability so that if someone were to look at my posts and reads them they could say he's just throwing out anything and a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
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eh, as far as I see it, until it's confirmed officially, its not a fact. We can all be SO sure 100% that it is a fact, but since MARVEL hasn't said so, its still speculation
 
eh, as far as I see it, until it's confirmed officially, its not a fact. We can all be SO sure 100% that it is a fact, but since MARVEL hasn't said so, its still speculation

That stuff won't be confirmed for a long time ;) That's why I feel safer talking about Sterns right now and not so much Jan.

Whedon's very "Waspy" Avengers draft news that came out recently is the closest we'll get to someone from Marvel confirming who she is until IM3 gets a lot closer I'm afraid. Unless it comes a lot sooner from someone else not attached to the studio. I think people like Wardell might not know... he only knows it'll be a surprise... part of the surprise is that we don't find out who she is until late in the movie. And even while watching the movie we won't be introduced to her, or her name. At all. Until the end. Tony and the audience don't know who she is until the end, so in a way they might keep it secret like the villain in the new star trek. To a lesser extent of course. But who she is may be part of the mid-credits, part of the movie. People in Im3 will be wondering who she is. So like Star Trek Into Darkness the revelation of who the character is, is part of IM3. Meaning just like Star Trek you won't find out until closer to the premiere at the earliest. On the premiere at the latest.

They'll wanna keep that close to the chest. There's already a broad outline being talked about for Avengers 2 and all of Phase 2 needs to be planned accordingly to coordinate with it.
 
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That stuff won't be confirmed for a long time ;) That's why I feel safer talking about Sterns right now and not so much Jan.

Whedon's very "Waspy" Avengers draft news that came out recently is the closest we'll get to someone from Marvel confirming who she is until IM3 gets a lot closer I'm afraid. Unless it comes a lot sooner from someone else not attached to the studio. I think people like Wardell might not know... he only knows it'll be a surprise... part of the surprise is that we don't find out who she is until late in the movie. And even while watching the movie we won't be introduced to her, or her name. At all. Until the end. Tony and the audience don't know who she is until the end, so in a way they might keep it secret like the villain in the new star trek. To a lesser extent of course. But who she is may be part of the mid-credits, part of the movie. People in Im3 will be wondering who she is. So like Star Trek Into Darkness the revelation of who the character is, is part of IM3. Meaning just like Star Trek you won't find out until closer to the premiere at the earliest. On the premiere at the latest. It's Mitchell and Jan, some fans have it right, but what if I was to tell you Khan will also have a presence? Although he's not the villain.
I wouldn't even dare open that can of worms and mention that Star Trek Into Darkness may have a cliffhanger in a Star Trek thread. You aren't just manipulating me for more spoilers are you? Because I have a few more but I like to spread it out in different places. I do know my words will be taken with a grain of salt.
Cumberbatch isn't really Harrison or whatever, but he's not Khan. That's for sure. Someone else is Khan. If I say who, I'll most likely be killed. Joking of course but I'd be hunted if I explain where I got that info.
Some of my contacts have info on Jurassic Park 4 too, but that's not as exciting.

They'll wanna keep that close to the chest. There's already a broad outline being talked about for Avengers 2 and all of Phase 2 needs to be planned accordingly to coordinate with it.


omg, you NEED to tell me about
jurassic park 4!!
 
They always wanted to take it away from the island with this fourth one and it led to terrible ideas. Going back like a year we see a couple mentions about them wanting to move away from the islands story-wise.

The plan is to have more dinosaurs on the mainland.

How they get that to work is the tricky part.

At some point the military would be called in, so there needs to be some sort of science in place like in Rise of the Planet of the apes and its sequel. In Dawn of the Planet of the Apes they're gonna have to address how all of Earth's military is overcome. The set up for that is already done. At least a plausible sci-fi reason like the virus/Alzheimer's in that movie.

There's a big reason that Universal hired the writers of Rise of the Planet of the Apes. And it's because dino-hybrids being used as weapons was leading nowhere. The artwork for the dino-hybrids... **shudder**.

At one point the idea became: use the dinos as part of the military and then have them rebel and spread more dinos to the mainland. An equally stupid idea. But from this idea they got a sense of where they wanted to go.

Somehow they want the new trilogy to almost devolve into a "Cadillacs & Dinosaurs" like world, where the Dinosaurs are becoming a massive problem for the humans and it's us who are going extinct. Some of the returning characters are survivors in this new Jurassic World trilogy and witnesses to how it all started.
 
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deliberately blur the line between my speculation and some of the things I've picked up. I have to write it that way so you can't tell where one begins and ends and exactly how much I know. If I actually know the actions of Sterns I would get in a lot of trouble. But hinting that there are talks about Sterns is all good, I could have heard about these talks from a number of people.... I have no clue how it all ties together and I suspect Wardell doesn't either... In a way I'm mirroring him.

"get in a lot of trouble." ?? Yeah.... that's the reason why I dont believe you actually know anything. if you did you would sure as hell not be on this board saying it and endangering your job and/or the jobs of your "contacts". Note I don't believe one word Wardell says either. What little he gets right is simply a good guess, so I dont exactly appreciate anyone "mirroring" him and feeding this thread false "facts". :cmad:

What little legit sounding stuff we get from people who work there is generally very minor and not a whole long list of speculation from all the movies they have been involved with or know about, and not them actively coming on websites and "spoiling" all the stuff they know under the guise of speculation. :oldrazz: Because that would not be a good idea for them career wise. :doh: The risk is too great that someone will find out, connect the dots, and there will be reprecussions. Even Lawden doesn't do that, he just spilled once, possibly by mistake, and hopefully he wasn't taken out by the Marvel snipers immediately after. :whatever: If he was, he seemed like a nice man in the interview. May he rest in peace. :p

omg, you NEED to tell me about
jurassic park 4!!

PLEASE tell me you are kidding.:whatever:

In any case, let's stick to Marvel/Thor's world of movies at least, please people.
 
So AM and I were talking about Loki's influence over Selvig in between Thor and Avengers, the idea that Loki has likely "met" Jane and Darcy (as Selvig) in that time, and why that it seems like he might actually be a little fond of Selvig in the tunnel scene (in the film and in the deleted scene it is much more obvious).

Also, it occurred to me the "you have heart" thing he says to Hawkeye may have more to do with his respect that Hawkeye has the heart to stand up to him, not just lay down and die or run away, and so a form of fondness/respect for Hawkeye by transforming him instead of killing him. If it were simply to do with the scepter functioning through the heart (which it would seem it does) then any and all could be transformed, but he transforms Hawkeye specifically because he admires his "heart" and that may be the basis for his fondness for Selvig as well.

And so that leads me into something else that we were discussing in PM, which is whether or not, anything that Jane might have to say to Loki, possibly in an effort to help Thor win his brother back, might effect Loki in a meaningful way (if the Lawden spoilers are 100% correct they may be hanging out together and certainly would interact). if she were to show him that she has "heart" he may just respect that. He may also be a bit more vulnerable and open to that than he was in Avengers due to Frigga's death. He may be more open to listening to his brother or whoever tried to reach out to him, lowly Midgardian woman or not. There are sure to be few, besides Frigga, who are likely to do that reaching out, and it sure as hell would be brave of her to do that.

Alternately he may also choose to use her feelings for Thor to his advantage and hurt Thor through her, if they go in that direction. This is certainly a possibility but either way her trying is a good thing for her character as it shows bravery, compassion, and "heart" and may even make her less annoying to some. :p

As for whether or not she could get past what Loki has done and reach out to him for Thor's sake, I think she could. She doesn't come off to me as a blindly vengeful person, and if it's clear to her that Thor is suffering, for his brother's issues, then I could see her trying to do what she can to help rectify that.

Also we don't know what Selvig has told her about his knowledge of Loki. (and it would be interesting if Jane and Darcy recognized that something was different about Erik during that time Loki was "hanging out" with him). In any case, Erik may know a few things that others don't about Loki now, the truth the Tesseract shared with him, if you will. So he may have his own compassion for Loki on some levels. He was set up as having a great fondness as a child to the old myths of his ancestors. Children are often drawn to the "mischief maker" in such stories, and he may have grown up with a fondness for Loki. Assuming the MCU version of the myths does not have most of the much darker elements included that are in the actual myths, he may not have such a dark view of myth Loki, and see him more as the playful trickster, than the devil. (and again, if he's presented as the devil in the MCU myths, then one questions why all the Asgardians don't know that Loki is "the devil" all along when the Midgardians do). He may also have learned about Thor's affection for his brother from his night out in the bar with Thor and have compassion due to that. I'd actually love a Loki-Selvig scene where some of this was addressed, and maybe Selvig recognizes Loki's pain, and tells him he doesn't have to do this, but could be Jane does this utilizing her conversations with Selvig and Thor about it, and what she read in the books about the mythology. a sort of "you don't need to be like this, you have a choice" type conversation. Which could effect Loki, or it could be the point where he says "yes I do." I would love for either Selvig or Jane to address some of what is in the mythology in the MCU, either way.

Note for you AM: before Thor leaves with Loki he takes a moment and says something to Selvig, so I think that could wind up being a message for Jane. ;)

And in Avengers Thor says "It is a signal to the other realms that the Earth is ready for a higher form of war", I think opening portals as we think Jane may be continuing to work on, may be included in that statement, so again, a reason Odin might send Thor down there to talk to her and get her to stop, and maybe she goes up to visit Odin when Thor can't convince her.

In the arguing scene involving the scepter, btw, pretty clearly the scepter (which is linked to the Tesseract) can exacerbate people's emotions and hostility without taking over them fully, so again I see no reason why that couldn't be part of what Loki's issue is in Avengers, and why he has become so incredibly feral at that point, as well as the way he's twisted in his mind what actually happened to him on Asgard. And again, if it was, that would explain why he might suddenly be acting a bit more reasonable and less vengeful in Thor 2, could also explain initial craziness (per the italian footage) as he comes off of/breaks from that influence.

Also, regarding Loki influencing Selvig at the beginning, and my quote about Selvig's grumpiness and annoyed line about Hawkeye possibly being he Loki influence, it could also be the Loki influence that Selvig suddenly refers to the Tesseract as a "she", since Selvig himself didn't like Jane doing that before. That makes it seem less likely he'd do that/out of character. So if Loki is referring to it (as Selvig) as a "she" then that most certainly will mean that it is a "she". ;)

Clearly if everyone upstairs in space has an opinion (per Tom), then there will be differing opinions. Who else do you think is likely to "reach out" to Loki? Aside from Frigga and Odin? Odin will have to punish him but I dont think that would stop him from reaching out in some ways. it was very interesting that Tom recently tweeted that his favorite Thor moment was the one where Odin said Thor already made him proud. That makes me sort of hopeful for a moment like that in Thor 2 for Loki, that he had this on his mind. (a scene he is not in at all in Thor 1). I think Thor may at least begin being "done" with him, though I think he'd come around later if Loki makes enough of an effort. I think Fandral maybe, since Zach is a big tv star, this would give him a bit more to do that Fandral had in Thor 1. And Sif, well... I'd thought her unlikely as she seemed to so dislike him in Thor 1, and I beleive have a history of seriously disliking him in the comics, but it occurred to me that would add a lot to her character if she were able to put those feelings aside in an effort to get Thor his brother back.
 
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Wow, Elizah, you were inspired!

So AM and I were talking about Loki's influence over Selvig in between Thor and Avengers, the idea that Loki has likely "met" Jane and Darcy (as Selvig) in that time, and why that it seems like he might actually be a little fond of Selvig in the tunnel scene (in the film and in the deleted scene it is much more obvious).

He seems to relate to where Selvig his coming from, which I found startling.

It's too bad they deleted the scene, since we miss out on the exchanges among Loki, Hawkeye, and Selvig. [Edit here, since I had mis-remembered when it takes place in the movie.]

Also, it occurred to me the "you have heart" thing he says to Hawkeye may have more to do with his respect that Hawkeye has the heart to stand up to him, not just lay down and die or run away, ... he admires his "heart" and that may be the basis for his fondness for Selvig as well.

And so that leads me into something else that we were discussing in PM, which is whether or not, anything that Jane might have to say to Loki, possibly in an effort to help Thor win his brother back, might effect Loki in a meaningful way (if the Lawden spoilers are 100% correct they may be hanging out together and certainly would interact). if she were to show him that she has "heart" he may just respect that.

As I understand, Jane has her moments of fearlessness in the books (inconsisently written, like so many characters, particularly the female ones). I think they're trying to show us some of that when the Destroyer shows up and she says to Thor something to the effect of, "If you're staying, I'm staying."

She also has her moments of wit/sarcasm/mouthiness.

So I can see her saying some candid/blunt things to Loki. Something along the lines of, "You idiot! Can't you see your brother loves you? He did X, Y, and Z. In fact, he's probably the only true friend you have in this universe." It's harder for me to see her being the profoundly wise/psychological counselor, since, as I mentioned to Elizah, Jane is already established as not being the most universally empathic person ("He's fine! Look at him.") (She defends people she cares about, but isn't necessarily looking out for or relating to the whole universe.)

He may also be a bit more vulnerable and open to that than he was in Avengers due to Frigga's death. He may be more open to listening to his brother or whoever tried to reach out to him, lowly Midgardian woman or not. There are sure to be few, besides Frigga, who are likely to do that reaching out, and it sure as hell would be brave of her to do that.

Well, since he had the ant/boot exchange with Fury, it seems likely that he would regard this Midgardian as lowly as the others (and I suspect it's a common Asgardian attitude, from remarks Thor has made).

Alternately he may also choose to use her feelings for Thor to his advantage and hurt Thor through her, if they go in that direction. This is certainly a possibility but either way her trying is a good thing for her character as it shows bravery, compassion, and "heart" and may even make her less annoying to some.

It could first be this and then a detente.

Regarding making her less annoying, I'd have to dig into what makes her annoying to people in the first place to be able to assess whether this would help matters any (I intend to, just don't have time time yet. Plus I want to read more of the books first)

As for whether or not she could get past what Loki has done and reach out to him for Thor's sake, I think she could. She doesn't come off to me as a blindly vengeful person, and if it's clear to her that Thor is suffering, for his brother's issues, then I could see her trying to do what she can to help rectify that.

I think it would be hard for her, though.

Erik may know a few things that others don't about Loki now, the truth the Tesseract shared with him, if you will.

True!

[Jane having a] "you don't need to be like this, you have a choice" type conversation.

I think it would be more effective if what she says has the effect of holding a mirror up to Loki, and he can see for himself that he has a choice. Like I said before, I don't think being a counselor is a strength of hers.

Note for you AM: before Thor leaves with Loki he takes a moment and says something to Selvig, so I think that could wind up being a message for Jane.

Yup! I had thought that was a possibility, but wanted to review The Avengers to make sure I remembered it correctly. (I also thought I would mull over the various reunion scenarios to determine the presence of such a message would make more or less sense.)

And in Avengers Thor says "It is a signal to the other realms that the Earth is ready for a higher form of war", I think opening portals as we think Jane may be continuing to work on, may be included in that statement, so again, a reason Odin might send Thor down there to talk to her and get her to stop, and maybe she goes up to visit Odin when Thor can't convince her.

Well, depending on where Thor and Jane are at with each other when they meet again, it may make more sense for Jane to have a "work-related" reason to go to Asgard than a "Thor-related" reason :yay:

In the arguing scene involving the scepter, btw, pretty clearly the scepter (which is linked to the Tesseract) can exacerbate people's emotions and hostility without taking over them fully, so again I see no reason why that couldn't be part of what Loki's issue is in Avengers, and why he has become so incredibly feral at that point, as well as the way he's twisted in his mind what actually happened to him on Asgard. And again, if it was, that would explain why he might suddenly be acting a bit more reasonable and less vengeful in Thor 2, could also explain initial craziness (per the italian footage) as he comes off of/breaks from that influence.

That could be.

He also was under a lot of stress, trying to deliver a project against a deadline, as it were. With the project ramped down, his stress level would come down and he could think more clearly again.

it could also be the Loki influence that Selvig suddenly refers to the Tesseract as a "she", since Selvig himself didn't like Jane doing that before. That makes it seem less likely he'd do that/out of character. So if Loki is referring to it (as Selvig) as a "she" then that most certainly will mean that it is a "she".

To clarify, Selvig was chagrined that Jane was injecting what I called romanticism into her science. Payne (I think) in his interview said that Portman brought the idea of "scientist as poet" to the character, feeling that was the kind of outlook needed to make breakthroughs. I think this gets at the same idea. So Selvig is more of a straight-up science guy. So for him to speak of an inanimate object in gendered terms is a bit poetic and thus out of character.

Note: I just played the deleted scene again, and Loki says, "I know; it touches everyone differently." So Loki does not say "she", at least not there.

Who else do you think is likely to "reach out" to Loki? Aside from Frigga and Odin? Odin will have to punish him but I dont think that would stop him from reaching out in some ways.
I agree.

And Sif, well... I'd thought her unlikely as she seemed to so dislike him in Thor 1, and I beleive have a history of seriously disliking him in the comics, but it occurred to me that would add a lot to her character if she were able to put those feelings aside in an effort to get Thor his brother back.

I also have the impression that Sif really dislikes Loki. But maybe she would try too, for Thor's sake. I have a hunch that it would be harder for Sif to get past her anger at Loki than for Jane. I get the impression that once Sif decides something, that's how it is, no two ways about it.

I don't know enough about the Warriors Three to know if any of them would feel close to Loki and would want to try.
 
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So I can see her saying some candid/blunt things to Loki. Something along the lines of, "You idiot! Can't you see your brother loves you? He did X, Y, and Z. In fact, he's probably the only true friend you have in this universe." It's harder for me to see her being the profoundly wise/psychological counselor, since, as I mentioned to Elizah, Jane is already established as not being the most universally empathic person ("He's fine! Look at him.") (She defends people she cares about, but isn't necessarily looking out for or relating to the whole universe.)

I suppose she could smack him across the back of the head and call him an idiot but I think that would be moving from the territory of "brave" and into the territory of "stupid". LOL

To clarify, Selvig was chagrined that Jane was injecting what I called romanticism into her science. Payne (I think) in his interview said that Portman brought the idea of "scientist as poet" to the character, feeling that was the kind of outlook needed to make breakthroughs. I think this gets at the same idea. So Selvig is more of a straight-up science guy. So for him to speak of an inanimate object in gendered terms is a bit poetic and thus out of character.

Note: I just played the deleted scene again, and Loki says, "I know; it touches everyone differently." So Loki does not say "she", at least not there.

True. However 1) that's not canon since it is a deleted scene, and while I think we can get glimpses of intent through those scenes we cannot take them at face value. 2) it may have been decided that having Loki say "She" would make the future far too obvious (and it would have) so that's why he doesn't do that there (Loki holding that info close to the chest with the majority, since that would have raised the question "She?") There was another example in Thor of something that was not in the final picture, I think, because it would have made something TOO obvious but I'm drawing a blank on what that was at the moment. Will post if I think of it.

I also have the impression that Sif really dislikes Loki. But maybe she would try too, for Thor's sake. I have a hunch that it would be harder for Sif to get past her anger at Loki than for Jane. I get the impression that once Sif decides something, that's how it is, no two ways about it.

I don't know enough about the Warriors Three to know if any of them would feel close to Loki and would want to try.

I would tend to agree on Sif, but maybe for Thor's sake she would. Again it would do a lot for that character to make that "moral sacrifice" lol. I also think this could be good use of Zach as Fandral. In Thor 1, Fandral defends Loki when the others question his intentions and of course Loki quickly saves him in the FG battle.. so we have that history of a friendship there already set... and I feel like they will want to make more use of Zach due to his popularity. Also Zach was definitely in Iceland, whereas Jaimie was not (due to her injury) and we don't know for sure if Ray or Tadanobu were there at all. So if some of that journey to wherever was filmed there, along with the big Dark Elf battle, then Fandral could have been in on that set of scenes as well, playing referee with the brothers. He would have a much clearer picture of their past relationship than any of the midgardians too, for that matter, and more of a dog in the fight if he still feels a bond with both.

Also, as I've pointed out in the news thread not long ago, there are some pictures from Bourne Woods that would make it seem like Volstagg at least might not make it out of that battle alive. They do need to up the ante as far as danger to these characters, so could be we lose Volstagg as well. I mean, in Thor 1, Thor dies and comes back, we think Loki dies and comes back, Fandral is pretty badly injured and is healed quickly... so audience will get apathetic about it if we don't lose somebody permanently, and not just momma Frigga.

one quick question from Thor 1 do you think I am correct in assuming that that's likely Vanheim and Alfheim up in the sky in this picture here?

bU3vL.png
 
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