Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

[jaqua99]

"get in a lot of trouble." ?? Yeah.... that's the reason why I dont believe you actually know anything. if you did you would sure as hell not be on this board saying it and endangering your job and/or the jobs of your "contacts". Note I don't believe one word Wardell says either. What little he gets right is simply a good guess, so I dont exactly appreciate anyone "mirroring" him and feeding this thread false "facts".

What little legit sounding stuff we get from people who work there is generally very minor and not a whole long list of speculation from all the movies they have been involved with or know about, and not them actively coming on websites and "spoiling" all the stuff they know under the guise of speculation. Because that would not be a good idea for them career wise. The risk is too great that someone will find out, connect the dots, and there will be reprecussions. Even Lawden doesn't do that, he just spilled once, possibly by mistake, and hopefully he wasn't taken out by the Marvel snipers immediately after. If he was, he seemed like a nice man in the interview. May he rest in peace.



PLEASE tell me you are kidding.

In any case, let's stick to Marvel/Thor's world of movies at least, please people.

lol I am not the only one who has gone off track for one moment, and I was expecting a PM, I got excited, jurassic park has been my favorite movie my whole life, but I was expecting a PM to be sent, lol sorry

 

[LokiDionysos]

"get in a lot of trouble." ?? Yeah.... that's the reason why I dont believe you actually know anything. if you did you would sure as hell not be on this board saying it and endangering your job and/or the jobs of your "contacts". Note I don't believe one word Wardell says either. What little he gets right is simply a good guess, so I dont exactly appreciate anyone "mirroring" him and feeding this thread false "facts".

What little legit sounding stuff we get from people who work there is generally very minor and not a whole long list of speculation from all the movies they have been involved with or know about, and not them actively coming on websites and "spoiling" all the stuff they know under the guise of speculation. Because that would not be a good idea for them career wise. The risk is too great that someone will find out, connect the dots, and there will be reprecussions. Even Lawden doesn't do that, he just spilled once, possibly by mistake, and hopefully he wasn't taken out by the Marvel snipers immediately after. If he was, he seemed like a nice man in the interview. May he rest in peace.



PLEASE tell me you are kidding.

In any case, let's stick to Marvel/Thor's world of movies at least, please people.

Not kidding. I did say I'm not exactly like Wardell.
I deal in concepts.
I'm like the concept of a similar opposite to him... Meaning we have some similarities, although things he doesn't have I have. I'm his opposite, and still somewhat similar in how I operate. I overextend my speculation to hide the small pieces that are completely true.
Perhaps that's one of the paths brought up in discussions but there are others?? I may not be spoiling everything because a lot of stuff is still at the conceptual stage... Sometimes focus groups are drawn together.
I may be withholding a lot.
Purposely drip feeding it.
I'll sum it up: we'll be seeing Wasp, Ultron, Sterns, and Zemo sooner rather than later. The one major thing I've given you is that Sterns is returning. Everything else could be gathered, predicted, or Wardell said something similar.
However, I've also talked about the Vanir which is a real deal.
Not sure about all the time travel talk from back then, to be honest you can consider that speculation covering the pieces. Somehow Pym needs to be brought in quickly after janet. Janet will be brought in very quickly, as much as fans don't want a repeat of blackwidow. She isn't black widow because her role in IM3 is completely different. People may really enjoy what they've put together for Wasp and Ultron--almost more than the Mandarin. IM3 and Thor2 are going to be jam packed, although IM3 is not as standalone as they're saying. It sets up a number of characters. However it doesn't dwell on them or keep them in the story. Thor 2 is more of a standalone, sticking to Thor's worlds, so it's harder to figure out. Again, I don't know exactly how it works I just pick up pieces and info on characters who will appear... there's a very good chance we see jan dealing with someone in the after credits of IM3.

I have the benefit of relative anonymity on my side. And time.
I don't really care about, or worry about much in this area...
I come into contact with and receive a lot of tiny pieces of information from multiple sources.

I keep saying it's speculation because it's not disinfo or anything. The reason I use the "guise of speculation" is to cover up when I am hinting at legit things... this way people who are doing that are only hinting at things. It sucks that Wardell figured out how this works and may not have an actual source. But I have many.

Could maybe tell you a little about Paradise.. the Prometheus sequel, lol that's trickier to figure out and speculate about to hint at things. Some of the stuff I could tell you would be from the original plan for two movies... After seeing what happened in Prometheus some of it may still be in play...

I'm safe in my position. And anyone I've drawn from has only passed me one piece of info and will not be chastised. I've collected my info from multiple sources so I know I'm safe, then I mixed in my own speculation. Sometimes things are pure speculation simply to cover up the other stuff. Sometimes the speculation is more than speculation and I don't want to say. For JP4 I intend to remove most of that post right now. I did want it there for a while.

I want to reveal things I just don't want to get myself in trouble. Others really can't get in trouble. I could eventually be found if they care enough and spend a lot of time piecing things. as a courtesy I include the speculation so some won't believe it and only consider it as a theory. it becomes part of the pool of possible theories in some cases and is not so surprising when it comes up again or happens on screen.
Early on I knew their were multiple leviathans in Avengers but Jordanstine and I had differing opinions on what the Leviathans were.
Jordanstine had some things right, but like me and Wardell only some things and trying to piece things together.
I could take full responsibility for some of JP4 being leaked.
I'm trying to explain a little bit about why I do it this way.
The way I've structured it doesn't give me away and they can't touch me.
My reach isn't wide enough, direct enough, or completely believable enough. On purpose.

I even feel like they couldn't touch me if they wanted to. Only because I have no real connections to anyone other than being thrust together with them for a short period time. Nothing they could do to stop me from exposing a lot of things. No permanent connection that would be broken and very few ways to trace it all back to me because of the way I've set it up. I've gotta stop talking about it now, but I wanted to explain why I'm different than Wardell. I'm much more speculative, have actually revealed more through my fake speculation than he has with his "spoilers", covered my tracks in advance in all the sites I frequent, and I'm better at extracting information from the industry.

I do have sources. Although like Wardell I'm speculating because my stuff does come from a small amount of info. It worries me that he does have one or two things right, but not convinced Wardell knows other things...
Many of the characters/pieces I've speculated on will be included.
How? I don't know for sure. i know more about JP4 but you're right.
I do need to take the JP stuff down. The Star Trek stuff is unbelievable/unexpected enough to stay up.

Wardell's exposed himself, and from the tiny amount of info he has his guesses aren't good enough. Not good enough to start completing the full picture. The way I operate is way different from him. When I saw him pop up I changed my ways to be the answer to Wardell. The Anti-Wardell. I only have a certain amount of info on everything. I won't just give you the info though. Surrounding it with speculation and circling it to show how it may connect means I won't run out of things to share as quickly. I've almost exhausted everything I can share, everything I gathered. Vanheim is important to this movie. I don't know much else about it/this movie... others yes. Somehow this must connect to the others. That's why coming here to get inspiration from some of your theories is so important

I don't care for the current corporate culture, although I manipulate and use it to extract information, anonymously sometimes.
I'm two steps ahead of Wardell.
But I can't reveal or hint at things on twitter or anything.
Some of the things I know are too big.
This thread works.
I don't care about the JP4 plot, I wanted to expose it. My personal reaction to the ideas: better than dinos with guns. They're not making the dinosaurs smarter or anything anymore. Which is one good thing.
I'm two steps away from becoming a supervillain to many studios, or anti-hero to many fans if I were to do things the easy way... and then not be believed.

I'd rather draw people into it and get their feedback about how it might work too...

 

[Godzilla2000]

Can it be said that based upon what has been said that Loki is in deep doo doo with several planetary systems?

 

[LokiDionysos]

Can it be said that based upon what has been said that Loki is in deep doo doo with several planetary systems?

I think so. That'd be a good way to go and could be what he meant by that quote. Just to get this thread back on track I mentioned again that I've heard from one of my sources the Vanir will be explored in this film. if only briefly.

Maybe they have a larger presence. We'll probably see a lot of the worlds involved since I've heard they're even including the Vanir/Vanheim.

But yeah it'd be interesting if a lot of the worlds wanted to have words with Loki.
That's why i think all the worlds will be included/represented in some small way in the film and Loki may even be visited from below while imprisoned.
Even Niflheim wants to speak with him.

 

[Godzilla2000]

I'm guessing that the 9 Realms would be pretty upset with him if Loki put into motion events that will lead to Ragnarok.

 

[elizah72]

lol I am not the only one who has gone off track for one moment, and I was expecting a PM, I got excited, jurassic park has been my favorite movie my whole life, but I was expecting a PM to be sent, lol sorry

Sorry. I don't mind so much talking A2 or even the other franchises IF it could be connected to a point the Thor stuff somehow, but when it gets into Star Trek and Jurassic Park 4, then that's definitely not applicable. I loved Jurassic Park when it came out too.

Another thing to keep in mind LokiDionysos is while someone is spoiling themselves about Thor 2 and those connected Marvel movies they may not want to spoil themselves about every movie they may ever go see. So best keep it out of this thread if it's not somehow Thor related.

The one major thing I've given you is that Sterns is returning.

As I've said, why introduce him and not use him to full effect? So it's kinda obvious he will return at some point.

However, I've also talked about the Vanir which is a real deal. Vanheim is important to this movie.

Again, that seems pretty obvious to me, based on looking at all those pictures and the review of the Italian footage points to it mentioning the battles on horseback (not to mention it is a very "Game of Thrones" thing to do). I know everyone doesn't agree, but they'll see the light on that sooner or later. I'm really excited because there is little on the war between the Aesir and the Vanir from the myths and they have hardly covered Vanaheim at all in the comics, it seems, so it will be a pretty original new story element.

And my assumption at this point is, as with the myths, the Vanir and Aesir/Asgardians will come to a truce again at some point, possibly just in time to try to stop Ragnarok, however it comes...

Can it be said that based upon what has been said that Loki is in deep doo doo with several planetary systems?

I think so. That'd be a good way to go and could be what he meant by that quote. Just to get this thread back on track I mentioned again that I've heard from one of my sources the Vanir will be explored in this film. if only briefly.

Maybe they have a larger presence. We'll probably see a lot of the worlds involved since I've heard they're even including the Vanir/Vanheim.

But yeah it'd be interesting if a lot of the worlds wanted to have words with Loki.
That's why i think all the worlds will be included/represented in some small way in the film and Loki may even be visited from below while imprisoned.
Even Niflheim wants to speak with him.

I'm guessing that the 9 Realms would be pretty upset with him if Loki put into motion events that will lead to Ragnarok.

It could be however, as I've said before there is not 9 realms news network, there is no rag newspaper exposing the activities of the Asgardian Royal family, so I don't know how ALL the 9 realms are going to know about what Loki's done. Jotunheim may not necessarily even know the truth about who attacked them with the bifrost. After Loki died I could see the family decide to keep things quiet, to keep his memory more positive rather than make everyone despise him after his death.

One group that may very well know some stuff that the Asgardians don't want them to know is the Vanir as they are masters of sorcery and magic (in the myths anyway).

 

[Godzilla2000]

It could be however, as I've said before there is not 9 realms news network, there is no rag newspaper exposing the activities of the Asgardian Royal family, so I don't know how ALL the 9 realms are going to know about what Loki's done. Jotunheim may not necessarily even know the truth about who attacked them with the bifrost. After Loki died I could see the family decide to keep things quiet, to keep his memory more positive rather than make everyone despise him after his death.

One group that may very well know some stuff that the Asgardians don't want them to know is the Vanir as they are masters of sorcery and magic (in the myths anyway).

Well, you don't need a news program to tell you that Loki and his buddy Thanos are committing Universal genocide realm by realm when you start seeing planets blowing up and refugees pouring onto your planets trying to escape the carnage. You can't say that Loki has been idle all during his exile. He's traveled the universe as a soldier of Thanos to get him into fighting shape. That sort of thing does tend to get well known with or without communication between the realms.

 

[American Maid]

there is not 9 realms news network, there is no rag newspaper exposing the activities of the Asgardian Royal family, so I don't know how ALL the 9 realms are going to know about what Loki's done.

But back in the day, the various kingdoms sent emissaries to the other courts. And through bribes and a careful ear for palace staff and townie gossip, they could probably glean bits.

Besides, even in this modern era, appearance of impropriety is about as bad as an actual impropriety. So to some extent, it may not matter whether they know what Loki (or anyone in the House of Odin) has actually done. It may only matter what they *perceive* him to have done.

 

[Godzilla2000]

I think the fact that the actors are saying that Loki is being hunted down by mercenaries and many planetary systems don't think Odin is punishing Loki properly says that Loki has pissed off a lot of planets among the 9 realms. Who knows, maybe Malekith is among the many pissed off at Loki. All told it is not good to be Loki right now.

 

[elizah72]

Well, you don't need a news program to tell you that Loki and his buddy Thanos are committing Universal genocide realm by realm when you start seeing planets blowing up and refugees pouring onto your planets trying to escape the carnage.

but how would they know it was Loki and Thanos specifically? Certainly the Jotuns would have no way of knowing who attacked Jotunheim, they may even have blamed Thor since the last time he was there he wanted to bash all their heads in.

And Thor says in Avengers the name of the army but that they are not of any realm known, so it may very well that Thanos' name is not actually known yet in the 9 realms.

And no refugees from Earth would be going to the 9 realms to spread the word that Loki tried to take over their planet, if any of the Midgardians, other than those directly involved, even learn that the bad guy's name is Loki. Which may be the case as well. All that info may very well be Shield confidential.

So I would maintain that very few people in the 9 realms are apt to know about Loki's bad behavior, outside of Asgard, and possibly the Vanir or other magic users who were snooping around in the Asgardian family business, looking for things to take advantage of.

 

[American Maid]

I think the fact that the actors are saying that Loki is being hunted down by mercenaries and many planetary systems don't think Odin is punishing Loki properly says that Loki has pissed off a lot of planets among the 9 realms. Who knows, maybe Malekith is among the many pissed off at Loki. All told it is not good to be Loki right now.

Really? I missed those quotes. Who said that?

 

[elizah72]

But back in the day, the various kingdoms sent emissaries to the other courts. And through bribes and a careful ear for palace staff and townie gossip, they could probably glean bits.

Besides, even in this modern era, appearance of impropriety is about as bad as an actual impropriety. So to some extent, it may not matter whether they know what Loki (or anyone in the House of Odin) has actually done. It may only matter what they *perceive* him to have done.

Yup. that's another way some rumors may have gotten around about how Loki died, that's true. And there could have been gossip, but not necessarily or likely to be open knowledge all over the 9 realms with people raging like a lynch mob to get their hands on Loki. It would be good for him if they didn't actually, since it will make it very difficult for him to get around, either while helping his brother in Thor 2 or if he escapes, if everyone does know what he's done and are out to get him. Easier for him to get around if most don't know (and much more convenient to the writers to write in future in this case too. ).

And really, as I think I've pointed out before, if for 1000 years Thor has a reputation as a head basher around the 9 realms, and Loki is more the mischievous but reasonable one, then they may actually perceive that Thor has been doing bad again and not be too keen on him becoming King. "Everyone upstairs in space has an opinion what happened" and I think that applies to Thor as well as Loki, the way he replies there, and is certainly an indication that everyone upstairs in space is probably not going to agree and just all blame Loki 100% for everything bad that results. Who knows, maybe some of the fighting breaks out due to the other realms NOT wanting Thor to be king, due to a perception of fault on Thor. Now that would be an interesting angle.

I also maintain that some of the 9 realms, even Asgardians, might have been ok with him trying to destroy Jotunheim, based on their past history of violent takeover of the realms, an impending war with Asgard (which is perceived to be started by Thor), and the perception that they are all "monsters" they tell their kids about at night. (and again, most of the 9 realms and Asgardians may not know that Loki is one of them. if that was maintained as a family/close friend secret after Loki's "death" to preserve a positive memory of him to the rest of Asgard and outer worlds)

I think the fact that the actors are saying that Loki is being hunted down by mercenaries and many planetary systems .

Where have any of the actors said that specifically?? Specific quotes please!

 

[jaqua99]

I think the fact that the actors are saying that Loki is being hunted down by mercenaries and many planetary systems don't think Odin is punishing Loki properly says that Loki has pissed off a lot of planets among the 9 realms. Who knows, maybe Malekith is among the many pissed off at Loki. All told it is not good to be Loki right now.

not good for Loki, for sure. Not too sure about the actor's comments though. Where have you read that?

Well, you don't need a news program to tell you that Loki and his buddy Thanos are committing Universal genocide realm by realm when you start seeing planets blowing up and refugees pouring onto your planets trying to escape the carnage. You can't say that Loki has been idle all during his exile. He's traveled the universe as a soldier of Thanos to get him into fighting shape. That sort of thing does tend to get well known with or without communication between the realms.

I wouldn't exactly say Loki and Thanos are buddies, its more so, Loki is the subordinate to him. I mean, Thanos is more than likely the big bad for phase 2 anyway. So its probably like...I don't know how to put it. He won't be working in pairs. Most likely

But back in the day, the various kingdoms sent emissaries to the other courts. And through bribes and a careful ear for palace staff and townie gossip, they could probably glean bits.

Besides, even in this modern era, appearance of impropriety is about as bad as an actual impropriety. So to some extent, it may not matter whether they know what Loki (or anyone in the House of Odin) has actually done. It may only matter what they *perceive* him to have done.

Exactly. There are a lot of assumption going on. Assuming things how they are. But the fact of the matter is this. We don't know what Loki did in between Thor and the Avengers. We hardly know what relationship he has with Thanos. I am just assuming it is not an equal role in terms of villainy anymore since Thanos seems to be shaping up to be the NEXT big bad.

We don't know how Odin, or asgard will take Loki's actions. We don't know how the other realms will react. Thor 2 isn't out yet. There have been no comments regarding who knows what Loki has done. Last we heard of the 9 realms, aside from thor mentioning it during the avengers was back when Thor was basically in exile. We don't know. No one is right, no one is wrong. There is JUST as much of a chance of everyone knowing what Loki did, and being pissed, as there is of not a lot of people knowing. There is literally almost nothing supporting both sides lol. So if you really think about it, we are kind of at a brick wall here.

Brick wall speculation makes my brain hurt, and it's irritating cause we have to WAIT

Really? I missed those quotes. Who said that?

I am curious too

Yup. that's another way some rumors may have gotten around about how Loki died, that's true. And there could have been gossip, but not necessarily or likely to be open knowledge all over the 9 realms with people raging like a lynch mob to get their hands on Loki. It would be good for him if they didn't actually, since it will make it very difficult for him to get around, either while helping his brother in Thor 2 or if he escapes, if everyone does know what he's done and are out to get him. Easier for him to get around if most don't know (and much more convenient to the writers to write in future in this case too. ).

And really, as I think I've pointed out before, if for 1000 years Thor has a reputation as a head basher around the 9 realms, and Loki is more the mischievous but reasonable one, then they may actually perceive that Thor has been doing bad again and not be too keen on him becoming King. "Everyone upstairs in space has an opinion what happened" and I think that applies to Thor as well as Loki, the way he replies there, and is certainly an indication that everyone upstairs in space is probably not going to agree and just all blame Loki 100% for everything bad that results. Who knows, maybe some of the fighting breaks out due to the other realms NOT wanting Thor to be king, due to a perception of fault on Thor. Now that would be an interesting angle.

I also maintain that some of the 9 realms, even Asgardians, might have been ok with him trying to destroy Jotunheim, based on their past history of violent takeover of the realms, an impending war with Asgard (which is perceived to be started by Thor), and the perception that they are all "monsters" they tell their kids about at night. (and again, most of the 9 realms and Asgardians may not know that Loki is one of them. if that was maintained as a family/close friend secret after Loki's "death" to preserve a positive memory of him to the rest of Asgard and outer worlds)



Where have any of the actors said that specifically?? Specific quotes please!

again, UNFORTUNATELY since there is hardly anything right now regarding Loki's actions between thor and avengers, and we dont got anything as to the perception of others, it really is tough to say what is going on, so the painful, painful waiting game continues :/


and Loki died? that was a rumor? totally lost lol

 

[elizah72]

We don't know how Odin, or asgard will take Loki's actions. We don't know how the other realms will react. Thor 2 isn't out yet. There have been no comments regarding who knows what Loki has done. Last we heard of the 9 realms, aside from thor mentioning it during the avengers was back when Thor was basically in exile. We don't know. No one is right, no one is wrong. There is JUST as much of a chance of everyone knowing what Loki did, and being pissed, as there is of not a lot of people knowing. There is literally almost nothing supporting both sides lol. So if you really think about it, we are kind of at a brick wall here.

oh it could definitely go either way with that, I'm just pointing out that it actually is more convenient for the writers in future and for Thor 2 if everyone doesn't know everything and going all lynch mob after Loki. Otherwise it is a big problem getting that character around without people constantly trying to kill or capture him. and Because with that in mind, he can't fool anyone in future, can he? But if not everyone knows then he certainly CAN continue to manipulate and trick people (no matter what path he chooses by the end of Thor 2) . I'm also pointing out the likelihood that the family might not let much if anything get out after Loki's "death" (at the end of Thor, they thought he was dead, that's what I'm talking about) So, in other words, think how Harvey Dent's memory was preserved as a hero of Gotham at the end of the Batman movie. I can definitely see the family doing the same sort of thing in regards to Loki's memory with the rest of Asgard and the 9 realms at the end of Thor 1 and the stuff that went down in Avengers may not have gotten "out" much if at all, either.

 

[American Maid]

the stuff that went down in Avengers may not have gotten "out" much if at all, either.

Of course, if the Dark Elves have sleeper agents on Midgard, like we were speculating earlier, they could get the word out. Certainly everyone on Midgard knows the rough outline of what happened.

And does anyone else in the Nine Realms have Heimdall-like powers to see (scry?) into other realms? If so, that person would know too.

And as I've said before, they don't even need to know any actual facts. They just need to "know" what they already believe to be true. (And that applies to Thor, as Elizah has been saying, as well as it does to Loki.)

 

[elizah72]

Of course, if the Dark Elves have sleeper agents on Midgard, like we were speculating earlier, they could get the word out. Certainly everyone on Midgard knows the rough outline of what happened.

I don't get the impression they've got that good a reputation/relationship with the other realms to do that realistically. It may however be a way that Malekith knows that Loki may have a vendetta, and grand desires, and approach him about teaming up possibly at some point.

And does anyone else in the Nine Realms have Heimdall-like powers to see (scry?) into other realms? If so, that person would know too.

I would think the Vanir would. So they may very well know, but again, aren't necessarily broadcasting it, but more keeping it in mind and possibly trying to use that information to their advantage.

And as I've said before, they don't even need to know any actual facts. They just need to "know" what they already believe to be true. (And that applies to Thor, as Elizah has been saying, as well as it does to Loki.)

If all the majority of the realms know is that the bifrost is gone, and that Thor destroyed it, and his brother Loki "died" at the same time (at the end of Thor 1), then I think, based on past run ins with Thor, they may very well assume that Thor did some bad stuff. That he attacked the Jotuns then tried to start a war with them, then *someone* tried to destroy jotunheim (which they could easily assume was Thor) and then the bifrost was destroyed in the course of that and the other heir to Asgard killed... if the assumption that they make based on what little they know is that Thor as been doing bad things, (again the royal family may have wanted people to keep a positive memory of Loki and not let much if anything out about what actually happened)... THEN the other realms may very well NOT be happy that Thor is going to be King of Asgard.

It is only one scenario, but I do think it is entirely possibly and would be an interesting angle for them to take.

Keep in mind, he may have proven himself to Mjolnir, Odin, and Asgard but that doesn't mean he's proven himself to ALL the 9 realms, in fact if he's been going around for 1000 years bullying the other realms and getting into "glorious battles" with his buddies, then he probably hasn't proven himself to them as worthy to rule them, and likely some of the realms will not be happy if he becomes King. And that would make for an interesting twist as far as "everyone upstairs in space" having an opinion on things.

 

[American Maid]

I don't get the impression they've got that good a reputation/relationship with the other realms to do that realistically. It may however be a way that Malekith knows that Loki may have a vendetta, and grand desires, and approach him about teaming up possibly at some point.

Just because the other realms don't like the Dark Elves doesn't mean they won't believe what they report has happened on Midgard.

I would think the Vanir would. So they may very well know, but again, aren't necessarily broadcasting it, but more keeping it in mind and possibly trying to use that information to their advantage.

They might not be the only ones who have gotten reports. This could be one of the worst kept secrets in the Nine Realms.

If all the majority of the realms know is that the bifrost is gone, and that Thor destroyed it, and his brother Loki "died" at the same time (at the end of Thor 1), then I think, based on past run ins with Thor, they may very well assume that Thor did some bad stuff.

Here on Earth there are *plenty* of generations of royal families where one of the brothers met with an unfortunate "accident" in adulthood.

That he attacked the Jotuns then tried to start a war with them, then *someone* tried to destroy jotunheim (which they could easily assume was Thor) and then the bifrost was destroyed in the course of that and the other heir to Asgard killed... if the assumption that they make based on what little they know is that Thor as been doing bad things, (again the royal family may have wanted people to keep a positive memory of Loki and not let much if anything out about what actually happened)... THEN the other realms may very well NOT be happy that Thor is going to be King of Asgard.

At the very least, they might not have complete confidence in how the House of Odin is handling things.

It is only one scenario, but I do think it is entirely possibly and would be an interesting angle for them to take.

Yup! So far we have seen Asgard's view of Asgard, and Midgard's view of Asgard, which is heavily influenced by Asgard. (We also know Jotunheim's view, to be fair.)

Of course, our premise is that Our Hero is our hero. So the story is likely to continue to be pro-Asgardian. But that doesn't mean the other Nine Realms are overwhelming fans.

Keep in mind, he may have proven himself to Mjolnir, Odin, and Asgard but that doesn't mean he's proven himself to ALL the 9 realms, in fact if he's been going around for 1000 years bullying the other realms and getting into "glorious battles" with his buddies, then he probably hasn't proven himself to them as worthy to rule them, and likely some of the realms will not be happy if he becomes King. And that would make for an interesting twist as far as "everyone upstairs in space" having an opinion on things.

Well, I think that the other realms have some autonomy, at least over their own affairs. But Asgard appears to reserve for itself the right to intervene if they think a particular realm is conducting itself in a manner that is not good for the rest of the realms. These other realms may question, though, whether Asgard's judgement is always best.

But maybe in this film Thor will take actions that will restore everyone else's confidence in him. It *would* be a new challenge for him!

 

[elizah72]

RE: Old Andrew Lawden spoilers:

“Thor becomes reunited with Jane who becomes possessed by a Dark Spirit, which is connected with the Dark Elves; a race the Asgardians have fallen out with many years beforehand [...] The Dark Elves attack Asgard, and they take a huge hit. So Thor has to rebuild Asgard by putting together an army to go and take the battle to the Dark Elves and defeat them. But the only way he can do this is – he needs to cross over to the Dark World, and the only person who has access to the dark side of Asgard is his old brother Loki, who at the beginning of the film is locked up in prison.

“So what happens is Thor basically has to negotiate this truce with Loki, and he goes on this great trek with Jane, all three of them. They go to this far side of Asgard, which is being shot in Iceland, where they train and assemble an army to go and attack the Dark Elves’ world.”

“But the exclusive twist…is that one of the things that happens during the Asgardian attack is that Thor’s mother gets killed. So it becomes like a vengeance thing. And they were keeping very tight-lipped about what actually happens with Loki, you don’t know whether he redeems himself or he’s still the bad egg.”

Here's something I'm unclear on/confused about with the Lawden spoilers. I was just listening again to the radio interview and some things I noticed.

At first when asked about Thor 2 he says ...

"I have a friend working on it at the moment just come back from Iceland."

this quote would indicate that anything he's telling us about Thor 2 is second hand information from a fellow stuntman/someone on the film, and of course that person he's speaking to would more than likely not have seen a full script, if he saw a script at all. So not only second hand info but likely someone making at least some assumptions trying to connect the dots in his conversation with Lawden. So as I've been speculating for a while now, some major points may be correct (Frigga's death, Loki and Thor work together, Asgard takes a big hit, Jane is possessed by something... all *at some point* since stuff is shot out of order). However I think other smaller more specific bits may very well be assumptions that are not necessarily correct (such as why Thor needs Loki, and where they go with who and what locations are used for where exactly, and the reference to them going to "the dark world"/"dark side of Asgard" via Loki to rebuild Asgard, and Jane being possessed specifically by a "Dark Spirit linked to the Elves"... all just assumed since the main villain are the elves and the movie is called "The Dark World".). Either way it does not seem to be first hand information from what Lawden has seen.

After he spills about Thor 2 and Frigga dying, the interviewer asks "So I take it that um... Thor's mother must die really early or you wouldn't be allowed to tell us anything about that"

Lawden answers: Basically they've got this big promotion going on whereby they are going to be introducing animated cartoon series of the Avengers.... they pretty much told us everything they were doing over the next 2 to 3 years.... culminating in the release of A2 in 2015 etc etc...

I think it's extremely odd that this does NOT answer question he was just asked. He goes totally on a tangent. Also I don't know why a trade fair about the animated cartoons, which are not canon with MCU anyway, would require revealing so much of what's going on in the upcoming films. It's just strange. It only makes sense to me if Lawden is confusing what he's heard about what movie where, and maybe the IM3 stuff was revealed at the trade fair, and he found reference to on the internet some, but not so much the Thor 2 stuff.

after a bunch of other really unrelated stuff he goes on about for a minute or two or so the interviewer asks the question again if this stuff, like the death he mention, must take place early in the film or they wouldn't allow people to talk about this.

Lawden answers: Um... I believe so yes. It’s very interesting that they released all this at this Marvel Disney trade fair in Milan, but as you can imagine, I was finding bits and pieces of it had been trolled all over the internet. (IMDB, Google) They deliberately put it out there for a reason.

Um. this interview was back in Oct. and we never heard or saw any of those spoilers for Thor 2 on the internet, correct? We heard a major character might die, for a while before this came out, but not specifically Frigga. The rumor was more Odin would die I think before that. And I don't think any of the other stuff was speculated at all anywhere on the internet that I've seen. So That stuff was completely new when Lawden spilled it, correct? So I am now wondering if he's referring to Iron Man 3 stuff being all spilled on the net and not so much Thor 2 (and really has no idea when the death occurs, just trying to answer the question and move on). I suspect that the Thor 2 stuff was not from that trade fair but only from the associate he knows on Thor 2 and he's confusing things. He does seem a little confused a few times in the interview (to me anyway).

I am thinking he only got the Thor stuff secondhand from his friend (who I assume could get in trouble for telling him, if he wasn't supposed to).. and maybe Lawden forgot that that stuff was not spilled in Milan about Thor 2 when he answered the interviewer. He seems to know about, work on and talk to a lot of people about a lot of projects, so he could easily have forgotten who he heard what from, and whether or not he should share it. And again, if Lawden didn't get the info first hand, we may have a case of "telephone game" here with some of the stuff not being right, as well as some stuff just being assumed because even his friend doesn't have a complete picture. Even the main actors don't see a complete script from what I've seen, and so don't have a complete picture beyond their own role.

 

[elizah72]

The Thor video game (the one with Chris and Tom voicing) have play throughs that are up on youtube which have some interesting bits, that may not be canon but may be hints nonetheless about what direction they may go in on certain things.

For instance, in this the Vanir appear to be extinct or almost extinct at least, after plotting a war against Asgard and planning to use their version of the bifrost the "frostgrinder" to invade Asgard. Odin takes "terrible retribution" on them by sending Mangog there, without the chains he'd held them in, and then he starts killing off the Vanir. (this is told though a recording of a Vanir to Thor).

(Vanir starting at 40 secs)

[YT]-Nr81mPs8nA[/YT]

so something like that could certainly tick off the remaining Vanir enough to team up with other worlds and go after Asgard and Odin again, while he is being seen as weak and without bifrost. Also there are trolls and such like Ulick stuck on Vanaheim in this game, so that could certainly go along with some of the invaders being trolls and demons and such, and still be from Vanaheim.... maybe all working together against the Asgardians.

Another place Thor sort of disses the Vanir's technology of frostgrinder, indicating they don't think much of the Vanir. "their wreched parody of bifrost". Loki refers to them as idiots who couldn't make the Frostgrinder work. So that goes along with the Vanir in the myth at odds with the Aesir/Asgardians because they are looked down on and want respect.

more interesting stuff about the Vanir and Nornheim and the trolls in the game here, starting at 8:20 The trolls are stuck on Vanaheim but want to get back their home in Nornheim.

[YT]D8wMj6BmzDE[/YT]

Loki is extremely naughty in this. LOL... and stuff blows up in his face big time!

again certainly NOT cannon with the MCU, but interesting. a few things from the game of interest,

Loki knows how to make the Vanir's frostgrinder work. He teleports often.

Odin brings back Sif after she is killed. (because he believes Thor will kill every one of the Jotuns in revenge if he doesn't)

Odin battles Mangog in the "Althing."

The Gjallarhorn, is a huge horn that rallies the troops, so we could see something like that in Thor 2 maybe, as a sort of alarm or rally during the attack

watched final act, Odin created mangog to destroy an entire race (the Vanir), it is inhabited by their billion angry souls (the comics say the same but are vague on what race or races that Odin killed to make up Mangog), and in the end when he's defeated the Vanir's souls are released from Mangog, and released from their anger somehow. I'm not entirely clear if they go to Valhalla or if they may come back to life. Not MCU cannon, but again, it would seem Marvel is open to the Vanir and Asgardians being at odds with each other.

reviews on this game btw, are consistently horrible. LOL I'm not a gamer but I certainly hope they improve in future for those who are.

 

[jaqua99]

The Thor video game (the one with Chris and Tom voicing) have play throughs that are up on youtube which have some interesting bits, that may not be canon but may be hints nonetheless about what direction they may go in on certain things.

For instance, in this the Vanir appear to be extinct or almost extinct at least, after plotting a war against Asgard and planning to use their version of the bifrost the "frostgrinder" to invade Asgard. Odin takes "terrible retribution" on them by sending Mangog there, without the chains he'd held them in, and then he starts killing off the Vanir. (this is told though a recording of a Vanir to Thor).

(Vanir starting at 40 secs)

[YT]-Nr81mPs8nA[/YT]

so something like that could certainly tick off the remaining Vanir enough to team up with other worlds and go after Asgard and Odin again, while he is being seen as weak and without bifrost. Also there are trolls and such like Ulick stuck on Vanaheim in this game, so that could certainly go along with some of the invaders being trolls and demons and such, and still be from Vanaheim.... maybe all working together against the Asgardians.

Another place Thor sort of disses the Vanir's technology of frostgrinder, indicating they don't think much of the Vanir. "their wreched parody of bifrost". Loki refers to them as idiots who couldn't make the Frostgrinder work. So that goes along with the Vanir in the myth at odds with the Aesir/Asgardians because they are looked down on and want respect.

more interesting stuff about the Vanir and Nornheim and the trolls in the game here, starting at 8:20 The trolls are stuck on Vanaheim but want to get back their home in Nornheim.

[YT]D8wMj6BmzDE[/YT]

Loki is extremely naughty in this. LOL... and stuff blows up in his face big time!

again certainly NOT cannon with the MCU, but interesting. a few things from the game of interest,

Loki knows how to make the Vanir's frostgrinder work. He teleports often.

Odin brings back Sif after she is killed. (because he believes Thor will kill every one of the Jotuns in revenge if he doesn't)

Odin battles Mangog in the "Althing."

The Gjallarhorn, is a huge horn that rallies the troops, so we could see something like that in Thor 2 maybe, as a sort of alarm or rally during the attack

watched final act, Odin created mangog to destroy an entire race (the Vanir), it is inhabited by their billion angry souls (the comics say the same but are vague on what race or races that Odin killed to make up Mangog), and in the end when he's defeated the Vanir's souls are released from Mangog, and released from their anger somehow. I'm not entirely clear if they go to Valhalla or if they may come back to life. Not MCU cannon, but again, it would seem Marvel is open to the Vanir and Asgardians being at odds with each other.

reviews on this game btw, are consistently horrible. LOL I'm not a gamer but I certainly hope they improve in future for those who are.

lol interesting, but I sorta doubt that much of this will transfer over.

I have this game, I beat it. It's a silly fun game, I had fun plaaying it.

Reviews are horrible. So you aren't really a gamer? Im not either really, but I do know this. games based on the movies are usually ALL horrible, so lets not count on the next game being better, cause it will probably suck as well :P

 

[elizah72]

lol interesting, but I sorta doubt that much of this will transfer over.

I have this game, I beat it. It's a silly fun game, I had fun plaaying it.

Reviews are horrible. So you aren't really a gamer? Im not either really, but I do know this. games based on the movies are usually ALL horrible, so lets not count on the next game being better, cause it will probably suck as well :P

Oh, it probably wont include all of that from the game, I know. I just thought it might indicate a few things that the films could work in in future, which is why I took a peek a them. I'm sure they got at least some feedback from Marvel about what they wanted and what they were allowed to do and use in the process of making the game.

The reviews on the videos that have the player reviewing are pretty hilarious, it's like they are on the verge of tears that they want to stop this game so badly because it is so "horrible", but they keep going (just stop if you hate it that much! LOL! Geeze! Quit your whining! )

 

[jaqua99]

Oh, it probably wont include all of that from the game, I know. I just thought it might indicate a few things that the films could work in in future, which is why I took a peek a them. I'm sure they got at least some feedback from Marvel about what they wanted and what they were allowed to do and use in the process of making the game.

The reviews on the videos that have the player reviewing are pretty hilarious, it's like they are on the verge of tears that they want to stop this game so badly because it is so "horrible", but they keep going (just stop if you hate it that much! LOL! Geeze! Quit your whining! )

on a side note, go watch youtube reviews of the game QWOP, it is the most ridiculous hilarious thing I have ever seen haha.


But I am gunna bring something back up. Kurse. He's sort of been lost in transition here. What to do you guys think his role is going to be? We havent talked about him, and the Kurse thread will probably be dead till we get some art or something.

I think he may be more of an anti-hero in this movie, opposed to just a villain. I am dying to see his look

 

[elizah72]

well that depends, what can you tell me about Algrim PRE Kurse? Doesn't seem to be much info around about that. What kind of character is he? Is there anything redemptive about him or any of the Dark Elves before he changes? I believe he's just a villain (as Algrim) in the Tales of Asgard animated movie 2011, but haven't watched that other than a few clips.

If all he's about is revenge on Malekith, after he is betrayed, and there is nothing good about him prior to that, I kind of have my doubts he will be an antihero, and he'd likely be just a villain who takes revenge. If he does have some good in him to show early on, then it would make sense and he may turn into an antihero. But I'm a firm believer that there has to be a thread of that throughout in the character, otherwise it is not convincing and would seem totally out of the blue.

 

[elizah72]

I knew I saw reference to this somewhere! I couldn't find it again a while back when we were talking about the filming in Greenwich U.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/k/kurse.htm

To rescue Lorelei, Thor went to the English Cotswolds, where stood the faerie castle that serves as a nexus between Earth and the other dimensional faerie realm of Svartalfheim Thor broke through into the world of faerie, and seeing Lorelei menaced by Malekith, became oblivious to everything else

so that may be how the Prime meridian & Greenwich U. line ties in, instead of the English Cotswolds. Not sure how that will all works visually though.

 

[jaqua99]

well that depends, what can you tell me about Algrim PRE Kurse? Doesn't seem to be much info around about that. What kind of character is he? Is there anything redemptive about him or any of the Dark Elves before he changes? I believe he's just a villain (as Algrim) in the Tales of Asgard animated movie 2011, but haven't watched that other than a few clips.

If all he's about is revenge on Malekith, after he is betrayed, and there is nothing good about him prior to that, I kind of have my doubts he will be an antihero, and he'd likely be just a villain who takes revenge. If he does have some good in him to show early on, then it would make sense and he may turn into an antihero. But I'm a firm believer that there has to be a thread of that throughout in the character, otherwise it is not convincing and would seem totally out of the blue.

there is like nothing of algrim prekurse. But you feel sympathy for him.

We'll see, I still hope Kurse stays to his character and in the end wants revenge on malekith. Anti-hero probably isn't a good description. A villain that hopefully wants revenge