Queens Elementary School Adopts All-Vegetarian Menu

[Breogan]

lol. Maybe if I adopted a superhero persona that freed animals and punished meat eaters then I could do something...This is a job for "Vegan-Man"

[YT]QAgv_T99bJo[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QAgv_T99bJo

 

[Hyde]

This argument is stupid. I've already said here I'm a vegetarian but I'm not gonna go into details right now. From my experience I've lived a fairly healthy life from being one, don't know what it's like in the US but here in the UK we have a national brand called Quorn which offers a vegetarian alternative for tons of stuff. Sandwich slices, bacon (even though it's disgusting), sausages and burgers etc. A ton of people actually prefer them to meat.

Anyway, being a vegetarian is fine and eating meat is fine. I don't look down on meat eaters because they do it. I only do it when one of them is acting like a complete dick (like some earlier in this thread)... For example, once my vicar at a church was talking about the upcoming BBQ and he said that there would be a vegetarian option, but at the same time made a joke about them being the "weaker species".

From a VICAR.

 

[Spider-Who?]

And I can accept that in past ages animals provided a needed nutrition for humans to survive where there wansn't many plants around

You obviously live in a bubble where you think the world is nothing but thriving little agricultural towns with good soil and weather, and no poverty. Agriculture is expensive not only to produce in necessary amounts, but in many places, to buy as well. 1/4th of the world lives in poverty. That is a LOT of people. Much of the planet is incapable of producing their own crop for numerous reasons, the largest being poverty, quality of soil and the weather itself - droughts, flooding, etc. 1/8th of the world does not get enough to eat, and that's after the help from countless humanitarian groups like World Vision and the Red Cross. In other words, there is STILL not enough crops to feed the world, much less support an all vegetarian diet.

The evidence I have from PhD's doctors is pointing towards a plant based food and explain how meat is total obsolete.

First - if meat is an obsolete dietary choice, then there would be no carnivores on earth, period. Evolution and all that. Second, if this is the same doctor who told you that it's impossible to measure the amount of protein in meat (yet is able to say there is "too much"), then I really think you need to make sure his doctorate wasn't ordered from the back of a tabloid, because he's obviously never heard of amino acids nor the Institute of Medicine's Food and Nutrition Board.

 

[Vid Electricz]

I used to be a camera assistant at Playboy much to the same effect.

Now your stomach turns whenever you look at a camera.

 

[Vid Electricz]

This argument is stupid. I've already said here I'm a vegetarian but I'm not gonna go into details right now. From my experience I've lived a fairly healthy life from being one, don't know what it's like in the US but here in the UK we have a national brand called Quorn which offers a vegetarian alternative for tons of stuff. Sandwich slices, bacon (even though it's disgusting), sausages and burgers etc. A ton of people actually prefer them to meat.

Anyway, being a vegetarian is fine and eating meat is fine. I don't look down on meat eaters because they do it. I only do it when one of them is acting like a complete dick (like some earlier in this thread)... For example, once my vicar at a church was talking about the upcoming BBQ and he said that there would be a vegetarian option, but at the same time made a joke about them being the "weaker species".

From a VICAR.

Unfortunately, human stupidity and ignorance knows no bounds no matter the politics, religion, race, gender or even "formal education" level of the individual.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Now your stomach turns whenever you look at a camera.

Exactly!

 

[jonathancrane]

Childhood obesity is a considerable problem we are facing stateside. I have mixed thoughts on the method applied by the school to combat it, but, the one component I have a firm opinion on is PETA. I am disappointed the school connected themselves with the group that raised hell about Mario having a coonskin cap (or whatever it was.) My roommate put it best: "PETA is like the kid at the community pool who is standing on the diving board and screaming for his father to watch him dive."

 

[Spider-Who?]

This argument is stupid. I've already said here I'm a vegetarian but I'm not gonna go into details right now. From my experience I've lived a fairly healthy life from being one, don't know what it's like in the US but here in the UK we have a national brand called Quorn which offers a vegetarian alternative for tons of stuff. Sandwich slices, bacon (even though it's disgusting), sausages and burgers etc. A ton of people actually prefer them to meat.

Anyway, being a vegetarian is fine and eating meat is fine. I don't look down on meat eaters because they do it. I only do it when one of them is acting like a complete dick (like some earlier in this thread)... For example, once my vicar at a church was talking about the upcoming BBQ and he said that there would be a vegetarian option, but at the same time made a joke about them being the "weaker species".

From a VICAR.

There's nothing wrong with a person choosing to limit their diet to one food source, so long as they do so wisely. I don't think anyone has said otherwise. What people here are having an issue with is two-fold:

1) The elitism being displayed by certain practitioners of a vegan diet.
2) The straight up lies and misinformation being uttered as fact in order to support their dietary choice and condemn others.

There are good and bad effects for ALL diets. People who have a vegan diet have to be JUST as mindful of the type and quantity of food they consume as people who eat meat, because too much or not enough will cause adverse effects to one's health. The problem is that certain posters utterly REFUSE to acknowledge - much less understand - this fact.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

The only animals I feel bad about eating are pigs. They're supposedly the only farm-animal that knows when it's about to be slaughtered and they can even play video games, that dogs and cats can't (the video game is rather simple. Moving a cursor over a certain area releases food for them). I have no guilt eating chicken and fish though because I just don't see them as cognitively aware, which I guess one could argue is a different type of elitism.

 

[Alex_Spider]

[YT]QAgv_T99bJo[/YT]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QAgv_T99bJo

lol. Not quite what I had in mind, but the costume seems OK. Seriously though I would save both the woman and the cow if I could. Both are living beings and deserve a chance in life.

You obviously live in a bubble where you think the world is nothing but thriving little agricultural towns with good soil and weather, and no poverty. Agriculture is expensive not only to produce in necessary amounts, but in many places, to buy as well. 1/4th of the world lives in poverty. That is a LOT of people. Much of the planet is incapable of producing their own crop for numerous reasons, the largest being poverty, quality of soil and the weather itself - droughts, flooding, etc. 1/8th of the world does not get enough to eat, and that's after the help from countless humanitarian groups like World Vision and the Red Cross. In other words, there is STILL not enough crops to feed the world, much less support an all vegetarian diet.

Like I said before all of these things you mention are a derivative of political and social implications. Most of the blame falls on the economic structure and the unethical corporations and their continuous pollution of this planet making green farming even more difficult. Not to mention the GMO crops. You might as well be living in a bubble if you blame the bad weather for the shortcomings of agriculture

First - if meat is an obsolete dietary choice, then there would be no carnivores on earth, period. Evolution and all that. Second, if this is the same doctor who told you that it's impossible to measure the amount of protein in meat (yet is able to say there is "too much"), then I really think you need to make sure his doctorate wasn't ordered from the back of a tabloid, because he's obviously never heard of amino acids nor the Institute of Medicine's Food and Nutrition Board.

It is obsolete for us Humans. Not the carnivores. As for the protein measurement I didn't say it is not possible through science and the dietary experts. I meant it is not easy for a common man to control his daily protein consumption just by guessing when it is enough.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Like I said before all of these things you mention are a derivative of political and social implications. Most of the blame falls on the economic structure and the unethical corporations and their continuous pollution of this planet making green farming even more difficult. Not to mention the GMO crops. You might as well be living in a bubble if you blame the bad weather for the shortcomings of agriculture

Did you not read the part where I mentioned economic factors? Also, go to a country that sees major droughts, flooding, and has overall a natural geography that is unable to support adequate agriculture, combine that with their (likely) poor economy and then we'll talk about how "easy it should be" for them to support a fully vegetarian diet.

It is obsolete for us Humans.

No it isn't.

As for the protein measurement I didn't say it is not possible through science and the dietary experts. I meant it is not easy for a common man to control his daily protein consumption just by guessing when it is enough.

You've obviously never seen a nutrition chart on food before, or heard of a fancy thing called google that gives you all the information you could ever want to know about any kind and quantity of food and it's nutrition information, as well as diets created based on said information.

How do you measure/keep track of all the nutrients, vitamins, proteins, etc you need/eat as a vegan? There is no difference in availability of information, nor is there a difference in the ease of using and tracking said information.

 

[Alex_Spider]

No it isn't.

Spoiler

Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't.

 

[zeroapoc]

I have no guilt eating chicken and fish though because I just don't see them as cognitively aware, which I guess one could argue is a different type of elitism.

Not really. They really aren't self aware. Mammals brains are more evolved in that way.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Spoiler

Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't. Yes it is. No it isn't, Yes it is. No it isn't.

Cute. I was hoping you'd attempt to back up your claim, but I see that was a wasted hope.

If meat and other animal products were obsolete for humans (and strangely no other carnivore or omnivore), then we wouldn't be able to digest any nutritional value from them, and ALL our required nutrients would be readily and easily available from all plants, without any shortage of or trouble producing said plants. This is just not the reality of the situation. The fact that we have the ability to gain similar needed nutrients from plants says nothing about the validity of including meat in our diets - no more than it questions the validity of vegetables. Why? Because both are good sources of nutrients our bodies need. It isn't about removing food sources from our diets - its about maintaining a healthy combination of both.

Going further, vegetarians are typically healthy because they DO allow themselves to consume animal products (like fish, eggs and dairy). Vegans, on the other hand often suffer from malnutrition because they do not consume enough calcium, omega-3 fatty acids, iron, protein, and vitamin B12 - all things that are in good supply by including animal-based food into one's diet, especially vitamin B12. They attempt to curb these deficiencies by consuming more soy-based products. Unfortunately, over-consumption of soy can cause a lot of damage to the human body, problems that could have been avoided by consuming meat, eggs and dairy.

Tell me again how meat is obsolete...I seem to have missed your reasoning.

Oh, another thing: you claim that relying solely on agriculture will not only better people's health, but also save the lives of animals and protect the environment...you ARE aware that agriculture is actually quite devastating to the Earth, right? Disrupting the land to allow for the growing of crops has destroyed ecosystems, killed off species; the carbon monoxide/dioxide from farm equipment and fertilizer has damaged the ozone layer, and the chemicals and pesticides we use to keep crops alive poison the top soil, water supply, innocent creatures AND people. The consumption of animals is important to the ecosystem - when regulated, it keeps animal populations in check, keeping them from over-reproducing (which causes all sorts of ecological issues).

How exactly is completely removing meat/other animal products from our diet and focusing all of humanities dietary needs on crops (thereby dramatically increasing all of these problems) going to change the world for the better?

 

[Alex_Spider]

I respect your thorough analysis on the subject and you 've raised some interesting points nevertheless. But my fingers are starting to ache from the typing. (I work at home so I spend long hours on the net. I am not trying to admit my defeat lol). We 'll talk again soon.

 

[dark_b]

Alex you are scaring me. you dont eat meat. which means that you need to be 10 times more careful tracking calories protein,carbs,fat and vitamins compared to other people. it looks like you dont.

you can get very sick after years eating like this. you need to know how much you eat. this is not a joke. this is serious.

 

[Alex_Spider]

Alex you are scaring me. you dont eat meat. which means that you need to be 10 times more careful tracking calories protein,carbs,fat and vitamins compared to other people. it looks like you dont.

you can get very sick after years eating like this. you need to know how much you eat. this is not a joke. this is serious.

Nah, I am fine eating my veggies and fruits. And basically I don't feel like watching constantly how much protein and calories I eat and what not. In general I feel better than ever. I don't worry a bit. Even in the army I hadn't a single problem with the long hours night shifts in the cold and the lack of sleep. I was the only Vegan in the camp and everyone was stoked that I didn't touch any meat in lunch lol

 

[whatsername]

How exactly is completely removing meat/other animal products from our diet and focusing all of humanities dietary needs on crops (thereby dramatically increasing all of these problems) going to change the world for the better?

There is one important gap in your argumentation, that I'm not sure you are aware of:
What are factory farmed animals fed? Crops. Mostly genetically-modified corn and soy. You have to feed an animal about 7.000 calories of crop to get 1000 calories worth of meat. That means you would essentially need much less crops, if less people ate meat.
And how do factory farmed animals get their B12? They are fed vitamin supplements. So again, we might as well take that supplement ourselves. Seems more efficient. All other dietary needs can be met on a vegan diet.
Also, I think I can safely say most people are still drawn to veganism because of ethical aspects, not health aspects, though that's a welcome bonus, especially for reasoning with people who don't seem to have much empathy.

 

[zeroapoc]

Also, I think I can safely say most people are still drawn to veganism because of ethical aspects, not health aspects, though that's a welcome bonus, especially for reasoning with people who don't seem to have much empathy.

Yep. Vegans are just better people.

 

[Vid Electricz]

There is one important gap in your argumentation, that I'm not sure you are aware of:
What are factory farmed animals fed? Crops. Mostly genetically-modified corn and soy. You have to feed an animal about 7.000 calories of crop to get 1000 calories worth of meat. That means you would essentially need much less crops, if less people ate meat.
And how do factory farmed animals get their B12? They are fed vitamin supplements. So again, we might as well take that supplement ourselves. Seems more efficient. All other dietary needs can be met on a vegan diet.
Also, I think I can safely say most people are still drawn to veganism because of ethical aspects, not health aspects, though that's a welcome bonus, especially for reasoning with people who don't seem to have much empathy.

Excellent first post!!!

Empathy seems to be a dwindling resource in this world...

 

[zeroapoc]

Not really. The world is safer now than it's ever been. It goes to reason growing empathy would be a part of that.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Not really. The world is safer now than it's ever been. It goes to reason growing empathy would be a part of that.

The world is safer than it's ever been? From what? Martians?

Sure, there are certain sorts of people that have and always will be lousy human beings, but now, more than ever we are encouraged to be more self involved and care less about others than ever before. This particularly applies to young people.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/10/17/the_empathy_deficit/

 

[Spider-Who?]

Excellent first post!!!

Empathy seems to be a dwindling resource in this world...

I would hardly consider caring about the animals killed for food, but not the animals killed, poisoned and displaced by agriculture practices and the ecological damages it causes, to be empathy. Selective empathy to fit ones view point is hardly empathetic, nor ethical.

 

[Spider-Who?]

...and yes, I do care about the animals we eat - many animals raised for consumption are mistreated and poorly fed for the sole purpose of saving a little cash. Just because they're going to be eaten (as all animals, minus humans, are) doesn't justify mistreatment while they're alive.

 

[zeroapoc]

The world is safer than it's ever been? From what? Martians?

Sure, there are certain sorts of people that have and always will be lousy human beings, but now, more than ever we are encouraged to be more self involved and care less about others than ever before. This particularly applies to young people.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/10/17/the_empathy_deficit/

Yes it's safer than ever. This is not my opinion but a point of fact. Every form of violence and violent death is lower per capita than it's ever been. Are you really saying we "care less about others" now than in times when human sacrifice, slavery, and raiding and murdering your neighboring town was the common practice?

I can post links too!

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/23/the_world_is_actually_safer_than_ever/

http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20121012/KAMLOOPS0101/121019933/-1/kamloops/world-safer-than-ever-author-insists