Rate THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

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I mean, I can suspend disbelief for a lot of things, but if a film tries to make itself appear as though it takes place in a world that is very similar to ours (as in governed by the laws of physics and nature, unlike most superhero worlds) then when it then breaks those rules it's a bit jarring. There were so many better ways they could have handled Bruce's injury, and his recovery than prison chiropractics ( my sister is a chiropractor, and she wasn't fond of that part of the film).
The movies have never really tried to make itself appear like it exists in a world governed by the laws of physics and nature. The first movie had a a blue flower that made hallucinate your fear, a microwave emitter, the second had Harvey Dent running around with half his face burnt nearly to the bone without any painkillers getting into car accidents, shooting people, kidnapping families and the Joker. Nature and physics aren't really fully there.
I've got no problem with Bruce being able to sneak from India back into Gotham (despite the lockdown) because he's gone underground before, and he's Batman ! But, the ejecting from the Bat with 10 seconds to go just doesn't work
Why doesn't it work?

God bless you! God bless everyone!
 
While it is sad that Nolan supposingly had to cut footage due to the limitations of IMAX footage, the movie is in a true sense an epic spectacle and I would also have had wanted to see more POV from Bane and the Orphans/Jobless of Gotham who take down the rich.

Batman vs. Bane fights we're great, the music was great and the story, while flawed with some questionable flaws was damn awesome.
 
I thought the Batman v Bane fights were one of the worst parts of the movie myself. Though the ceography was pretty much horrible in this film. However, I totally agree on the music, it was probably Zimmers best work in the trilogy.
 
Didn't you put all (12 released) Marvel Studios films in your top thirteen Marvel films with Kick-Ass the only non-MCU film to reach inside of your top 13? If I had a hard time getting that ranking, then this is no exception.

Well those were the Marvel films and yes among those I'd put all the MCU films ahead of the rest with the first Kick-Ass! in there as well. But if we expand it beyond just Marvel then I'd have added DC films like Superman: The Movie and Batman Begins to that list as I think that they are better even than some MCU films(but certainly not all) and by definition I'd put those 2 ahead of all FOX/Sony-made Marvel films(which I have yet to have even one of them ring my bell very hard...though there are plenty of passable ones among them). This is because both S:TM and BB do what the MCU movies seem to do effortlessly: They get me to like characters I already either had zero interest in or outright didn't like prior to that movie. I'm totally indifferent on Superman, but I LOVE S:TM. I've thoroughly disliked Batman all my life as he's always seemed just the worst kind of Mary Sue to me and I didn't care for any of the 1st 4 Batman movies. Which is why BB blew my socks off when it got me to like Batman for once. TDK killed that dead afterward(and TDKR, while an improvement...couldn't revive that feeling) but for a brief moment there I sorta got why the character was popular.

None of the FOX/Sony movies have managed to do that for me yet since I've never been an X-Men, FF or Spidey fan. We'll see if Deadpool can change that soon enough though.
 
I thought the Batman v Bane fights were one of the worst parts of the movie myself. Though the ceography was pretty much horrible in this film. However, I totally agree on the music, it was probably Zimmers best work in the trilogy.

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Watch it again and tell me where have you seen a fight this intense with story? Bane compeltely annihilates Batman in both the theatrics and physicality, only allowing his emotions to spark when Batman accuses Bane of being an exiled member.

Sure, it isn't adreline infusing as something you can see from Raid or any other proper martial arts movie, but as far as superhero movies goes? It's thematic and that's what counts, and still better than anything to do with CGI action explosions or monster punches.

This is also why i'm more excited for Batman vs Superman because it's two actors duking it out, but Trinity vs. CGI Doomsday? Eh, We've all probably seen that fight already.
 
Along with many others, I consider The Dark Knight to be the best genre movie of all time. But I go back and forth in terms of ranking Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. BB has a more cohesive narrative (and is, IMO, the best genre origin movie of all time). But TDKR is more thematically ambitious. And sometimes, a film that aims high - but doesn’t quite hit the mark - is still more interesting than one that’s more conventional and mainstream. It’s sorta like the “level of difficulty” scoring used in some Olympic events; you get consideration for at least attempting the harder stuff. :word:

But as I say, I go back and forth.
 
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Watch it again and tell me where have you seen a fight this intense with story? Bane compeltely annihilates Batman in both the theatrics and physicality, only allowing his emotions to spark when Batman accuses Bane of being an exiled member.

Sure, it isn't adreline infusing as something you can see from Raid or any other proper martial arts movie, but as far as superhero movies goes? It's thematic and that's what counts, and still better than anything to do with CGI action explosions or monster punches.

This is also why i'm more excited for Batman vs Superman because it's two actors duking it out, but Trinity vs. CGI Doomsday? Eh, We've all probably seen that fight already.

I disagree but it's just my opinion, found it looking to ceographed and slow. I'm not saying they should be flying around or anything but I just didn't like it.
 
Excellent. A great followup and conclusion and, though I prefer it's predecessor, I never felt disappointed with it.
 
I think Bale gives probably his best Bruce Wayne performance but he's going through the motions as Batman IMO.


Watch the scene where he saves John Blake and frees the cops. It is, in my mind, the best stretch of Batman Bale has ever performed. Everything comes together here, the voice, the eyes, the body language. If only he was this good throughout the trilogy.
 
Among the Nolan trilogy my expectations were lowest of all for this film (friends bashed it without mercy before I got around to watching it on blu ray), and for that reason I was most pleasantly surprised of all with it. Loved Hardy's Bane. Loved Hathaway's Selena. I had a great time with the story. Because it was so much better than I was led to believe, for me, I rated it excellent because that was my own personal experience of the film for the reasons just given. It's not an objective rating, really. But there it is.
 
Watch the scene where he saves John Blake and frees the cops. It is, in my mind, the best stretch of Batman Bale has ever performed. Everything comes together here, the voice, the eyes, the body language. If only he was this good throughout the trilogy.

I have seen the film several times and I'm not saying he's bad in every scene nor that he's bad. I kind of think he's sort of bored or just to comfortable in the role at times in the film as Batman so his performances come across off.
 
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I liked it all right, so I voted good. I liked John Blake, I thought Bane was pretty goofy, and Selina was decent overall but not what I would want from Catwoman (not that she really was Catwoman). I liked her better when she was pretending to be a maid or a bystander or when she was being normal than when she was putting on her "Catwoman" act, which isn't surprising because I never thought Hathaway was the right choice for the role. Bruce Wayne came off as ordinary through most of the film, far removed from the mystique of the Burton films and without the sort of development he got in Batman Begins. It was just guy fights badguy, guy gets beat up and tossed in a hole, guy gets better and climbs out of hole, guy fights badguy again. The Batwing was cool.

It was an enjoyable enough movie. It wasn't as big of a drop from The Dark Knight as that might make it sound, because at this point TDK isn't in my top 20 comic book movies. Batman Begins is near the top of the list, though, so each movie was a successive drop from the last.
 
Its interesting to hear what others think outside of the dark knight rises thread. Also interesting to see how much love Batman Begins receives in here. I still think that might be the best Batman movie ever made. TDKR had some good moments. I thought Hathaway was ok. I thought Hardy was great as Bane (a character I never really liked) and never quite understood the voice issues others reported. Overall though, I felt the movie felt like a lot of left over ideas with rarely anything original
 
I vote excellent. It is 3rd best Batman movie after Dark Knight and then Batman Begins and it is one of best DC movies with Donner Superman movie and Nolan other two Batman movies.
 
The movies have never really tried to make itself appear like it exists in a world governed by the laws of physics and nature. The first movie had a a blue flower that made hallucinate your fear, a microwave emitter, the second had Harvey Dent running around with half his face burnt nearly to the bone without any painkillers getting into car accidents, shooting people, kidnapping families and the Joker. Nature and physics aren't really fully there.Why doesn't it work?

God bless you! God bless everyone!

Before I respond I would like to apologize if the tone of the following sounds at all patronizing or condescending - I don't appreciate that kind of tone from other people, and try hard to avoid it myself. While I utterly disagree with you ( particularly given that a big part of Nolan's approach to Batman was to try and ground the films in reality) I still respect your opinion.


First, notice my use of the word "similar." i.e. a world similar to ours, but not the same, that appears to have many of the same rules - particularly with respect to physical injuries (at least at first).

Second, and more importantly, Nolan took great pains to make Batman believable, which is why there are so many scenes of Bruce putting the gear together, constructing the Batcave and all of Fox's explanations of how the tech works. If you get a chance you might check out interviews with Nolan he states that his goal was to make Batman realistic - not literal reality, but cinematic reality.

"The world of Batman is that of grounded reality. Ours will be a recognisable, contemporary reality against which an extraordinary heroic figure arises."

- Christopher Nolan.

read these:

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Christopher-Nolan-Movies-Never-Like-Marvel-Movies-68542.html

http://www.ageekyworld.com/christopher-nolan-says/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/batman-begins-films-christopher-nolan-1468058


BTW If you don't think flowers can make you hallucinate, well folks have been getting very trippy from poppy seeds for thousands of years, so that's hardly something that's much of a stretch on reality.


One of the better parts of TDKR was that it showed the accumulated injuries that Bruce had sustained - Nolan included that to make Batman (and the consequences of nighttime crime fighting) more believable. That those injuries could be overcome by a special knee brace...well okay maybe. That a damaged vertebrae can be punched back into place by some guy in a prison cell without causing serious harm to the spinal nerve column well that's a step too far.

Going back to TDK for a moment and Harvey Dent's injuries, 3rd degree burns don't hurt, because the nerve endings are dead. Could he run around doing all that psychotic stuff - possibly, although what's more unrealistic about that is that he does a pretty much 180 degree personality change after Rachel's death, he skips over mourning and goes straight on to full on psychosis. True Dent had a dark side, but even then he wasn't a killer - it's a bit much really - still somehow Nolan makes it work.

You put "the Joker" at the end of a sentence there, and I'm not quite sure what you were saying there. If you don't think terrorists or murderous clowns are realistic I wish I could say you were right - sadly, the truth (as in real world serial killers and terrorists) are much scarier than the Joker.

I remember when Silence of the Lambs came out, and it really creeped me out. Anyway, I told myself that nothing as horrific as that could happen in reality - and believed that until the stories surrounding Jeffrey Dahmer came out. It was then I realised that criminals in films (even in psychological thrillers) aren't nearly as horrific as real ones - real life is a lot scarier.

Is the Joker possible, hmmm..... could someone be that crazy. Well, I'm going to say yes, given the craziness I see when I turn on the news.

So, then we get to the bits of TDKR that are really unrealistic, so much so that they kind of bug me. First, Batman's escape from the blast - watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acX0DbBqXNI

we see him in the Bat roughly 10 seconds before the bomb goes off. Now given that the blast radius was 6 miles, even if he bales out with 10 seconds to go and glides using his cape how far could he get ? We see the detonation, which is clearly above the sea. Given the speed the blast wave and the radiation would travel, it's just not possible for him to get clear.

Even if he could glide at 360mph (which is the speed the bat would have been travelling to clear the city in the time it had) which is impossible for gliders, he still wouldn't reach safe distance.

As for swapping over to a different Bat, well when did that happen ? At 1:33 of the video we see him in the Bat (with bomb attached) press the trigger on his controls, at 1:34 we see an explosion (which is Batman blasting his way through the skyscraper). At 1:38 the Bat emerges from the flames. So unless Batman could swap to a different Bat in 5 seconds well........

Anyway, despite all that I'm still glad he gets a happy ending.

As for your final question, I can only assume that you are asking why it doesn't work for a film to attempt to portray itself as realistic and then suddenly, jarringly drop that pretense.

Probably the most unbelievable thing about TDK was Batman being able to catch and pull up the Joker after he falls off the Pruitt building. First, the Joker's acceleration towards the ground would probably mean that he'd hit the ground before the grapple hit him.
Second, assuming it did catch him, and wrapped around one of his legs (the leg would probably come off -but lets assume it didn't ) then Batman has to negate the momentum of his fall in order to pull him back up ( which Superman could probably do, but unless Batman has massive, superhuman strength, he simply could not manage).

I'm not saying it's utterly impossible (who knows, maybe a sudden gust of wind significantly arrested the Joker's fall) but it's getting towards the impossible end of the possibility spectrum.

In comparison, TDKR has several of these moments which I found very unsatisfying upon subsequent viewings.

The genius of Nolan is that so many other things in the trilogy are probably not possible, but he frames them in such a way that we suspend disbelief - and he does this by convincing us, as an audience that they may not be actually possible (like the memory cloth glider) but are at least theoretically possible - and that' s enough. But the suspension of disbelief remains a fragile thing, and he plays a bit too fast and loose with it in TDKR for my taste.

If you like Nolan, see The Prestige, because I think it's a good metaphor for Nolan's filmmaking. He deftly dresses up the impossible and misdirects our attention so that we are fooled by the trick and he sells it to us, and we eat it up ( particularly with BB and TDK) however, in TDKR he isn't quite as good with his cinematic sleight of hand and we start to say "wait a minute...."

But that, along with everything else is just IMO.
 
I disagree but it's just my opinion, found it looking to ceographed and slow. I'm not saying they should be flying around or anything but I just didn't like it.

I liked the movie despite a few problems but yeah I agree, the fight choreography was underwhelming as usual, including that clunky Bane sewer fight. Batman and Catwoman fighting people on the roof was awful to a point where it looked like parody. But honestly I don't watch Christ Nolan movies for the hand-to-hand combat choreography, so it's just a minor quibble.
 
Not as good as TDK, but I love it. Very rewatchable, too. I always end up watching it on TV if I see that it's on.
 
If you don't mind me asking, The Batman, why did you make this thread?

I don't think there can be any more said on the topic than what was already said.
 
I was generous with "excellent," though I feel it's just great. Heh. 8/10.
 
Voted excellent.

I think I may like this more than TDK. Of course, TDK was a tremendous film and definitely one of the best comic book movies of all time. I think part of the reason I like TDKR more is because TDK did get over-played and over-hyped, yet for good reason. At the same time I have a bit of Joker fatigue, which I blame this movie for. I like what they did in New 52 where Joker only showed up for two events really. Treat him like a horror monster, the less you see the scarier they are. People always want Joker. Joker this, Joker that. They always say he is the best Batman villain. Which, yeah but personally my favorite is Ra's al-Ghul. So there is all that.

Now some argue this film is too much of feels or borrow from Batman Begins. Which I say, of course it does. A year after TDK came out, before TDKR came out I believed the third one had to circle back to the League of Shadows. The Riddler to finish out the series did not make sense, unless it was just another sequel and not a final installment of a trilogy. A trilogy requires a return to the past, that whatever you thought was buried in the past is about to come back and bite you in the ass.

This idea of realism and suspended belief I won't get into, I take Nolan's universe as it is. I understand the things like calling ******** on Batman deployment before the explosion. But in the end, that doesn't matter. The story has to go on to show that Batman "died" yet Bruce Wayne lived and so forth. I don't waste my time nitpicking these ideas, cause honestly I do not care.

Not to say nothing was at stake in TDK, but it didn't "feel" that way to me. Regardless of what we knew or could just guess or assume, until the particular scene was Dent or Rachel's life at stake? Not really. Where in TDKR Batman is broken, his city is going to be destroyed, his relationship with Alfred is gone, Gordon is in the hospital and Batman a wanted man. The cards are so stacked against our heroes here, that basically the villains won already, until the final act of the film. At times we need the hero to fail, the hero needs to be checked to prove to the audience that like us, the hero is human. Because a hero who can do anything and everything with 0% chance of failure is boring. That story serves no purpose.

Now some people complain about the pit, saying we know he climbs out before seeing it. Well, yeah! But how does he, you do not know the complete details of. Here it traces back to Batman Begins, saying to conquer your fear, by conquering fear gives you strength. Here, it says the opposite and I never thought about it before. He feared he would die in that pit and that his city would go on to be destroyed while he rotted in that cell. The fear of failure. Then use that fear to drive you out of the pit. The hero rising against difficult feats always causes for fun drama and story. And it wasn't a first time climb and went simple, no it took numerous times. Here Batman was very human, not the kinda Bat-god some people make him.

Bane was great! Finally, some great one on one with Batman and a rogue, since you can't do that very much with Joker, Batman can easily punch out Joker imo in one shot. Those fights were great. I liked that Bane was a physical threat, but also had a brain, be interested what he's like at chess. He came off as deep. Being a history/politics person Bane came off to me as this kind of Leninist figure who delivers this great speech to rally the masses of "useful idiots" as Lenin would call them, because they were basically helping him in this cause they believed in but in reality were sewing their own destruction. On a personal note, the revolutionary angle really struck with me.

I loved the look and scenery of the film. The snow was great, I didn't mind seeing Batman there in daylight, there was snow, I love snow as an effect and for atmosphere. I enjoy the BAT/BAT-lobster/bat-wing. In all honesty, it really just looks like the tumbler without wheels. Then seeing a bunch of tumblers on the road was great. The hanging scene on the bridge and I could go on.

I admit there are problems, yes but I have found myself watching it more than TDK. It's the first Batman film I am ok that Batman is not shown very much, compared to the Burton ones were there's like a 1/3rd of Batman in the film. I probably even had more fun with it than TDK, probably because of the ending. Hence, I prefer these kind of endings where the protagonist goes through hell, is trampled on, things look bleek but in the end they rise up and happy ending more or less.
 
Same here mate :up:

High Five lol

I love the entire Nolan/Bale Trilogy. Some of the most fantastic casting choices in superhero film history in this series IMO.

It's funny, though I love Begins the best, I find myself watching TDK and TDKR more often. (I admit I watched Begins repeatedly when I got it on DVD).
Though I personally find Rises the weakest in the trilogy that is not me saying I dislike it or calling it a poor film. It was and still is a fantastic film from start to stop. Some of the films complaints that I have read over time "plot holes" like how did Bruce get back to Gotham etc. I find as one of the films charms. It is Bruce Wayne, The Batman, he found a way. How? Up to your imagination. That's how I look at it. I know a lot won't agree with me but that's how I feel. Though the film has its flaws (show me a superhero film that don't) I still love it.
I don't let "plot holes" bother me unless they are out right in my face obvious. For example Jurassic Park. The T-Rex in his paddock is at ground level. Then during the escape and carnage the T-Rex pushes the explorer with Tim one of the children over the side falling well over 100 ft from the looks of it. How did it go from ground level with the trucks to all of a sudden it being a 100ft drop? To me THAT is a true "plot hole" or contuinity issue that stands out and bothers me.
 
High Five lol

I love the entire Nolan/Bale Trilogy. Some of the most fantastic casting choices in superhero film history in this series IMO.

It's funny, though I love Begins the best, I find myself watching TDK and TDKR more often. (I admit I watched Begins repeatedly when I got it on DVD).
Though I personally find Rises the weakest in the trilogy that is not me saying I dislike it or calling it a poor film. It was and still is a fantastic film from start to stop. Some of the films complaints that I have read over time "plot holes" like how did Bruce get back to Gotham etc. I find as one of the films charms. It is Bruce Wayne, The Batman, he found a way. How? Up to your imagination. That's how I look at it. I know a lot won't agree with me but that's how I feel. Though the film has its flaws (show me a superhero film that don't) I still love it.
I don't let "plot holes" bother me unless they are out right in my face obvious. For example Jurassic Park. The T-Rex in his paddock is at ground level. Then during the escape and carnage the T-Rex pushes the explorer with Tim one of the children over the side falling well over 100 ft from the looks of it. How did it go from ground level with the trucks to all of a sudden it being a 100ft drop? To me THAT is a true "plot hole" or contuinity issue that stands out and bothers me.

1. Agree with you on Bruce coming back to Gotham. Not only that, but who cares. He's back in Gotham to save that day, that is all that is important.

2. Never thought of that on Jurassic Park and you are so right. Damn, how did I not see that.
 
I liked the movie despite a few problems but yeah I agree, the fight choreography was underwhelming as usual, including that clunky Bane sewer fight. Batman and Catwoman fighting people on the roof was awful to a point where it looked like parody. But honestly I don't watch Christ Nolan movies for the hand-to-hand combat choreography, so it's just a minor quibble.

Agreed, I agree though it's not a major problem
 
Voted excellent.


This idea of realism and suspended belief I won't get into, I take Nolan's universe as it is. I understand the things like calling ******** on Batman deployment before the explosion. But in the end, that doesn't matter. The story has to go on to show that Batman "died" yet Bruce Wayne lived and so forth. I don't waste my time nitpicking these ideas, cause honestly I do not care.

.

That's cool. You know the first time I saw TDKR I was massively hyped ( I won tickets to an advance screening, and down here in NZ we're about a day ahead anyway, so it was like 2 days ahead of the rest of the world).

Anyway, I loved the film while I was watching it, but afterwards my brain turned back on and those little details really began to bug me.

Over time, that's only gotten worse - and what bugs me most is that they were all easily avoidable with a little adjustment to the script/story. I'm not usually a nitpicker, but for me these were just a bit too much to ignore.

I admire Nolan's ambition here (and I'm a huge Nolan fan, Inception is one of my top 10 best movies ever !) but I feel like he just quite didn't pull it off. By contrast TDK is executed perfectly, sure there are some minor plot questions in that one too, but the film is so masterfully executed that I don't care - I've seen TDK literally hundreds of times and never get tired of it.

And of course there's Bane...the voice is just wrong, there had to be a better way to do it, without the mumbling (hell, in V for Vendetta Hugo Weaving is as clear as a Bell, so is James Earl Jones as Darth Vader) I didn't mind the look of Bane, and I enjoyed the smackdowns - but the voice just didn't work for me.

If you still feel that TDKR is great that's awesome, wish I did too - because I feel like the final chapter in a trilogy should be the best ( sadly Return of the Jedi wasn't, but Return of the King arguably exceeded both films that went before - although I have a special love for Fellowship of the Ring, Matrix Revolutions, well the ball was totally fumbled there).

There are a lot of great moments in TDKR, and I love the final montage - it ends on such a good note. But my problem is that I over think it a bit
( I mean even the ending which i LOVE, but after that Blake becomes Batman ? Really ? Doesn't he need to go to Ninja school first ? He's got the gadgets in the cave, but Bruce needed the full resources of Wayne Enterprises to be effective. Yeah, so his chances of being a good Batman, or even surviving....not great).

Still, if you can look past all that stuff more power to you - wish I could too.
I still think TDKR is a good movie, but it falls short of the greatness of TDKR, well IMO at least.
 
If you don't mind me asking, The Batman, why did you make this thread?

I don't think there can be any more said on the topic than what was already said.

It's been nearly four years since the film came out, and I wanted to see what a hindisght consensus looked like. Plus, I wanted to see what some of the newer hype members had to say, or hear opinions from people that don't really requent the Batboards.

Also, I was tired of the "Rate Man of Steel" thread.
 

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