Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[SupermanFan]

I suppose the Krypton showrunners can say that their casting was colorblind; they just hired the best actor for the part.

I can’t say. I’ve never seen Page in anything. I thought Cuffe was… adequate. But he didn’t knock my socks off.

As for the “racial continuity” between a movie and a TV show which don’t exhibit much continuity at all… Page is apparently bi-racial (half white). So it’s quasi-plausible that he could be the grandfather of someone who looks like Henry Cavill. It’s less plausible that he’d be the father of someone who looks like Russell Crowe. But — hey! — Kryptonian genetics.

Maybe they actually did that. But even so they’re allowed to want to cast a white male in that role and it not be a racist thing. Superman has a certain look and has done so since inception. This is exactly what I had out with Nadria on Twitter, if you don’t cast a black guy in a role it doesn’t make you racist. Also if you are saying any white character can have their ethnicity change then the same should go for ANY character. If we suddenly saw Blade played by someone whose white there would be uproar.

 

[Aurakles]

Are people going to believe Superman being able to fly is less realistic than having him having a grandparent with a different skin colour?

 

[SupermanFan]

Are people going to believe Superman being able to fly is less realistic than having him having a grandparent with a different skin colour?

Believing one has super powers and their ethnicity changing are two different things. Regardless they cast Cameron Cuffe instead, that’s who they wanted to cast. Are we going to say anytime a person of different ethnicity to a white male is cast that it’s racist? Can we really not say we want a white male or female in a role and have to cast different ethnic actors in those roles? If so then everything should be open to race changing not just roles intended for white actors that change.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Maybe they actually did that. But even so they’re allowed to want to cast a white male in that role and it not be a racist thing. Superman has a certain look and has done so since inception. This is exactly what I had out with Nadria on Twitter, if you don’t cast a black guy in a role it doesn’t make you racist. Also if you are saying any white character can have their ethnicity change then the same should go for ANY character. If we suddenly saw Blade played by someone whose white there would be uproar.

That's not how equity works.

 

[Predator jp]

Maybe they actually did that. But even so they’re allowed to want to cast a white male in that role and it not be a racist thing. Superman has a certain look and has done so since inception. This is exactly what I had out with Nadria on Twitter, if you don’t cast a black guy in a role it doesn’t make you racist. Also if you are saying any white character can have their ethnicity change then the same should go for ANY character. If we suddenly saw Blade played by someone whose white there would be uproar.

 

[idiot09]

Great thread. Pointing out all the bs Geoff Johns's PR team put into that article, and THR published w/o fact checking.

 

[KalvinEllis]

The part about GL is straight up BS. Johns kept Hal Jordan on the team in the New-52 because it came out in 2011, the same year the GL movie came out, a movie that was made in the first place because Hal's book was doing gangbuster numbers in the comics at the time and the franchise had never been bigger. Hal is a founding Justice League member who was in the most successful GL run in the history of the franchise and was getting his own movie at the time, that's why they kept him on the team during the New-52 relaunch. How is that supposed to prove that Johns wanted to deliberately sabotage John Stewart just because he wasn't the featured Lantern on his New-52 team. Does that mean the current DC management must be against Hal instead, since he's barely even promoted anymore, he's been away from the League for more than a decade, doesn't even have his own solo book anymore and is never featured in outside media anymore. As fans, we can always speculate about creators playing favorites, but the numbers showed otherwise at the time of the Johns' GL era. The way this guy says Johns "removed another black character" just because John Stewart was the featured Lantern in one cartoon show from two decades ago is laughable. By his logic, given that the current regime removed Cyborg from the League and sent him back to the Titans, they must hate him because they want to prioritize John who became the main black character on the JL again. Some of his "fact-checking" appears to leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Aurakles]

Believing one has super powers and their ethnicity changing are two different things. Regardless they cast Cameron Cuffe instead, that’s who they wanted to cast. Are we going to say anytime a person of different ethnicity to a white male is cast that it’s racist? Can we really not say we want a white male or female in a role and have to cast different ethnic actors in those roles? If so then everything should be open to race changing not just roles intended for white actors that change.

Point I was making was that Kryptonians are radically different from humans, the rules of human biology do not apply to them. They do things that are impossible for humans, there's no reason to limit that to superpowers.
A writer could say for Kryptonians skin colour is completely random, that they do not have ethnicities the way we do. We shouldn't impose any assumptions onto Kryptonians, because they are not us.

And this is on top of the fact that Rege-Jean Page is mixed race, and was up for the role of Clark's grandfather, so it doesn't even stretch the rules of human biology.

 

[SupermanFan]

Point I was making was that Kryptonians are radically different from humans, the rules of human biology do not apply to them. They do things that are impossible for humans, there's no reason to limit that to superpowers.
A writer could say for Kryptonians skin colour is completely random, that they do not have ethnicities the way we do. We shouldn't impose any assumptions onto Kryptonians, because they are not us.

And this is on top of the fact that Rege-Jean Page is mixed race, and was up for the role of Clark's grandfather, so it doesn't even stretch the rules of human biology.

Biology isn’t but restricted to human beings though. I still don’t think it’s wrong to say that Kal’s grandfather should look like Kal ends up doing.

Regardless it doesn’t mean he should get the role and Krypton had a very diverse cast as it was. So I don’t really get the outrage over this.

 

[SupermanFan]

The part about GL is straight up BS. Johns kept Hal Jordan on the team in the New-52 because it came out in 2011, the same year the GL movie came out, a movie that was made in the first place because Hal's book was doing gangbuster numbers in the comics at the time and the franchise had never been bigger. Hal is a founding Justice League member who was in the most successful GL run in the history of the franchise and was getting his own movie at the time, that's why they kept him on the team during the New-52 relaunch. How is that supposed to prove that Johns wanted to deliberately sabotage John Stewart just because he wasn't the featured Lantern on his New-52 team. Does that mean the current DC management must be against Hal instead, since he's barely even promoted anymore, he's been away from the League for more than a decade, doesn't even have his own solo book anymore and is never featured in outside media anymore. As fans, we can always speculate about creators playing favorites, but the numbers showed otherwise at the time of the Johns' GL era. The way this guy says Johns "removed another black character" just because John Stewart was the featured Lantern in one cartoon show from two decades ago is laughable. By his logic, given that the current regime removed Cyborg from the League and sent him back to the Titans, they must hate him because they want to prioritize John who became the main black character on the JL again. Some of his "fact-checking" appears to leave a lot to be desired.

Agreed, it’s as bad as Fishers claims that they brightened up the movie to lighten the skin tones of the actors of colour and the actors of colours removal/reduced roles were racially motivated even though Willem Dafoe was cut and other roles were cut/deducted too. Honestly it’s modern society IMO, people assume everything has to be motivated by some bad intention.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Agreed, it’s as bad as Fishers claims that they brightened up the movie to lighten the skin tones of the actors of colour and the actors of colours removal/reduced roles were racially motivated even though Willem Dafoe was cut and other roles were cut/deducted too. Honestly it’s modern society IMO, people assume everything has to be motivated by some bad intention.

Gotta tell you man, the person in charge of DC now must totally hate Hal Jordan because he's clearly not a priority for their corporate overlords anymore. I mean I can't tell that for sure but like that dude I'm gonna try to present some of my opinions as facts anyway because you don't see him anywhere on this promo image of the current DC direction. Oh look, but at least Cyborg is hiding in the background there. How kind of them.

 

[Micromind]

John Stewart became popular after Bruce Timm's Justice league Unlimited (2004-2008), but around same time. in DC Comics world Geoff Johns' Green Lantern: Rebirth (2005) made Hal Jordan popular again, while that was a good thing, (which paved the way for Green Lantern movie in 2011), he was not able to get same popularity for John Stewart in GL Comics. I would say he focused more on Hal Jordan in GL Comics, which is a writer's prerogative.

 

[Aurakles]

Biology isn’t but restricted to human beings though. I still don’t think it’s wrong to say that Kal’s grandfather should look like Kal ends up doing.

Regardless it doesn’t mean he should get the role and Krypton had a very diverse cast as it was. So I don’t really get the outrage over this.

Kryptonian biology defies the laws of physics... it... it defies the laws of physics! Their biology is whatever the writers want it to be.
The things they can do makes no scientific sense, it might as well be magic. Why it easier to believe his skin can survive a nuclear explosion than to believe his skin can be a different colour from his grandpa?

There are plenty of humans who look nothing like their grandparents, there's no certainly no reason Superman has to.

 

[Aurakles]

I'm not going to pity Hal Jordan.
He's had a film, a cartoon show, he got brought back from the dead and had his worst crimes blamed on a bug. Also recently had a solo run by Grant Morrison.
He's had plenty of time in the sun.

 

[KalvinEllis]

I'm not going to pity Hal Jordan.
He's had a film, a cartoon show, he got brought back from the dead and had his worst crimes blamed on a bug. Also recently had a solo run by Grant Morrison.
He's had plenty of time in the sun.

But do you pity folks who claim to dispute lies by ironically lying about certain aspects such as why Hal Jordan was prioritized over the other Lanterns at the time while trying to present it as a racially-motivated decision instead.

 

[SupermanFan]

Kryptonian biology defies the laws of physics... it... it defies the laws of physics! Their biology is whatever the writers want it to be.
The things they can do makes no scientific sense, it might as well be magic. Why it easier to believe his skin can survive a nuclear explosion than to believe his skin can be a different colour from his grandpa?

There are plenty of humans who look nothing like their grandparents, there's no certainly no reason Superman has to.

OK I’ll give you that BUT it doesn’t mean that Rege should have gotten the part over Cameron Cuffe or that Johns was wrong for wanting someone who looked like he would be Superman’s biological grandfather (going by human rules). From a casting POV it makes sense to cast someone who looks like what Superman does traditionally.

 

[Aurakles]

But do you pity folks who claim to dispute lies by ironically lying about certain aspects such as why Hal Jordan was prioritized over the other Lanterns at the time while trying to present it as a racially-motivated decision instead.

I don't think I ever said anything about Hal prioritization and race, I was just trying to say that he has more exposure than most GLs.

 

[Aurakles]

OK I’ll give you that BUT it doesn’t mean that Rege should have gotten the part over Cameron Cuffe or that Johns was wrong for wanting someone who looked like he would be Superman’s biological grandfather (going by human rules). From a casting POV it makes sense to cast someone who looks like what Superman does traditionally.

I'm not arguing about who should've got the role, I've never watched Krypton and don't think I've ever seen either of these two act.
I'm just saying that there is no justification to exclude an actor from playing Superman's grandfather on the basis of race.

 

[KalvinEllis]

I don't think I ever said anything about Hal prioritization and race, I was just trying to say that he has more exposure than most GLs.

And I never said you did, I was referring to the individual who made those tweets in response to Johns' rep statements in THR article.

 

[SupermanFan]

I'm not arguing about who should've got the role, I've never watched Krypton and don't think I've ever seen either of these two act.
I'm just saying that there is no justification to exclude an actor from playing Superman's grandfather on the basis of race.

There is if (as they did) wanted to cast an actor that looked like Superman

 

[The Batman]

The part about GL is straight up BS. Johns kept Hal Jordan on the team in the New-52 because it came out in 2011, the same year the GL movie came out, a movie that was made in the first place because Hal's book was doing gangbuster numbers in the comics at the time and the franchise had never been bigger. Hal is a founding Justice League member who was in the most successful GL run in the history of the franchise and was getting his own movie at the time, that's why they kept him on the team during the New-52 relaunch. How is that supposed to prove that Johns wanted to deliberately sabotage John Stewart just because he wasn't the featured Lantern on his New-52 team. Does that mean the current DC management must be against Hal instead, since he's barely even promoted anymore, he's been away from the League for more than a decade, doesn't even have his own solo book anymore and is never featured in outside media anymore. As fans, we can always speculate about creators playing favorites, but the numbers showed otherwise at the time of the Johns' GL era. The way this guy says Johns "removed another black character" just because John Stewart was the featured Lantern in one cartoon show from two decades ago is laughable. By his logic, given that the current regime removed Cyborg from the League and sent him back to the Titans, they must hate him because they want to prioritize John who became the main black character on the JL again. Some of his "fact-checking" appears to leave a lot to be desired.

Also, people tend to conveniently forget that in order to have John on JL/JLU, they disregarded Kyle Rayner, who was the lead GL at the time JLTAS was being devolped. But no one would claim that Bruce Timm has something against Kyle.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Also, people tend to conveniently forget that in order to have John on JL/JLU, they disregarded Kyle Rayner, who was the lead GL at the time JLTAS was being devolped. But no one would claim that Bruce Timm has something against Kyle.

Doesn't fit the narrative. Kyle isn't often seen by fans of other GLs as a "threat" to their favorites. Hal tends to make some of those folks VERY uncomfortable and it's funny af.

 

[Da-Scribe]

OK I’ll give you that BUT it doesn’t mean that Rege should have gotten the part over Cameron Cuffe or that Johns was wrong for wanting someone who looked like he would be Superman’s biological grandfather (going by human rules). From a casting POV it makes sense to cast someone who looks like what Superman does traditionally.

There are plenty of white-passing humans who have mixed-race grandparents. And as a mixed-race person (though I identify as black) with a white-passing nephew, this is maybe one the most asinine and out-of-touch defenses I've ever come across.

 

[MbJ]

Just gonna drop this picture of the half-Black, half-Irish Jennifer Beals...

 

[Da-Scribe]

Just gonna drop this picture of the half-Black, half-Irish Jennifer Beals...

Lemme go ahead and leave a pic of black/white Wentworth Miller while we're at it