Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[SupermanFan]

There are plenty of white-passing humans who have mixed-race grandparents. And as a mixed-race person (though I identify as black) with a white-passing nephew, this is maybe one the most asinine and out-of-touch defenses I've ever come across.

Yawn, someone’s triggered again.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Yawn

I see facts continue to be really off-putting for you.

 

[SupermanFan]

I see facts continue to be really off-putting for you.

You provided no facts just another triggered response. You remind of the typical modern day folk who don’t like opposing views. I dropped facts, it’s ok when it’s one way but not the other and it’s fine to want to cast a character white, same as it is to want to cast a role any ethnicity. Doesn’t make you racist.

 

[Da-Scribe]

You provided no facts just another triggered response. You remind of the typical modern day folk who don’t like opposing views. I dropped facts, it’s ok when it’s one way but not the other and it’s fine to want to cast a character white, same as it is to want to cast a role any ethnicity. Doesn’t make you racist.

You haven't provided any facts. You've merely demonstrated yet again how you don't understand modern-day race relations or the concept of DEI. Call me triggered all you want. You just tried to assert that a white-passing person having black grandparents is some biological impossibility. To a mixed-race black person no less. And as is typical in this thread, you are wrong. Examples were provided by myself and @MbJ. You're just out of your depth here.

 

[chintai80]

i had a friend in high school who was half greek, half chinese.
she looked 100% olive-skinned greek, nothing like her mother who was a fair-skinned chinese woman.

so i find the thought that kal-el's grandfather can't look black to be absolutely laughable.

 

[SupermanFan]

i had a friend in high school who was half greek, half chinese.
she looked 100% olive-skinned greek, nothing like her mother who was a fair-skinned chinese woman.

so i find the thought that kal-el's grandfather can't look black to be absolutely laughable.

I’m not saying he can’t but if they wanted to cast a white man who looked like Superman I don’t see a problem with that decision nor do I think it’s racist to do so.

 

[Legendver2]

I’m not saying he can’t but if they wanted to cast a white man who looked like Superman I don’t see a problem with that decision nor do I think it’s racist to do so.

Yea that's fair, but then them casting a black man for Zod while MoS's Zod is white is just a bad look if their reasoning for a white Seg-El is because they wanted someone who looks like a younger MoS Supes. What's worst, in the context of the story, Seg-El (white actor) is the father of Dru-Zod (black actor), but somehow doing the reverse for Superman's lineage didn't work for them for whatever reason. Racist or not, it's a super bad look either way.

 

[Da-Scribe]

To me, there is nothing wrong with wanting to cast a white dude as Superman's grandfather. There is nothing wrong with choosing a white guy over a black guy either assuming the white guy gave the better audition. What I do take issue with is the idea that you can't cast a black guy in a role simply because the character's grandson is white. That excuse is observably stupid.

 

[Legendver2]

To me, there is nothing wrong with wanting to cast a white dude as Superman's grandfather. There is nothing wrong with choosing a white guy over a black guy either assuming the white guy gave the better audition. What I do take issue with is the idea that you can't cast a black guy in a role simply because the character's grandson is white. That excuse is observably stupid.

It's more stupid when within the context of the story, they did exactly that but reversed the races

 

[SupermanFan]

Yea that's fair, but then them casting a black man for Zod while MoS's Zod is white is just a bad look if their reasoning for a white Seg-El is because they wanted someone who looks like a younger MoS Supes. What's worst, in the context of the story, Seg-El (white actor) is the father of Dru-Zod (black actor), but somehow doing the reverse for Superman's lineage didn't work for them for whatever reason. Racist or not, it's a super bad look either way.

I believe when they originally shot the pilot it was a MOS prequel then when they changed it it was at that stage they decided to bring in Zod.

With regards to how bad it looks, I dunno. We’re hearing it 3rd hand, so we don’t know how the conversation actually went with regards to this.

 

[Legendver2]

I believe when they originally shot the pilot it was a MOS prequel then when they changed it it was at that stage they decided to bring in Zod.

With regards to how bad it looks, I dunno. We’re hearing it 3rd hand, so we don’t know how the conversation actually went with regards to this.

I can buy the reasoning as provided by Da-Scribe earlier, and they probably should have used that reasoning of the best actor taking the job regardless. But then they straight up used the race card for their reason to cast a white actor. No one in their right mind would think pulling the race card on this is smart. The fact we're debating about this already says it was a bad look.

 

[SupermanFan]

I can buy the reasoning as provided by Da-Scribe earlier, and they probably should have used that reasoning of the best actor taking the job regardless. But then they straight up used the race card for their reason to cast a white actor. No one in their right mind would think pulling the race card on this is smart. The fact we're debating about this already says it was a bad look.

Again though we don’t know that they did and let’s say they did, is it just ignorance and not intended to be racist? I find people are too quick to label people racist these days and not think maybe they’re just insensitive or need education,

 

[Da-Scribe]

Iunno how telling a black woman that her community's cultural relationship with hair is actually not real can be perceived as anything other than racism. I don't necessarily believe that Johns is a frothing-at-the-mouth racist or anything. But he certainly says racist ****.

 

[CowCommando]

It can be perceived as your boss not liking the pattern on the back of your head so he expects you to shut up and do as you’re told, no ifs, ands or buts

 

[Nemeres]

I think it's fine to want Regé-Jean Page as Superman's grandad. It's also fine to not want him. It's fine to get the guy that they chose.

 

[super85]

Iunno how telling a black woman that her community's cultural relationship with hair is actually not real can be perceived as anything other than racism. I don't necessarily believe that Johns is a frothing-at-the-mouth racist or anything. But he certainly says racist ****.

Or Maybe you know, it was a continuity issue and they wanted the character to look the same from one scene to the next.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Or Maybe you know, it was a continuity issue and they wanted the character to look the same from one scene to the next.

Or maybe you know, black women change their hairstyles from one day to the next, so there isn't any continuity issue.

 

[metaphysician]

Or maybe you know, black women change their hairstyles from one day to the next, so there isn't any continuity issue.

One, I find it rather curious your usage of "black women change" here, as if using different hair styles is some unique element of black culture. *cough*

Two, movies at least are not filmed in chronological order. Maintaining visual continuity isn't about keeping a character looking the same from day to day, its about keeping the character looking the same from *scene to scene*. Making sure that a character doesn't look like they stopped at the hair salon in the middle of a chase scene is entirely a valid concern for a director.

Three, discrimination about hair style is a real and valid concern. I just think you are making really lousy arguments about it.

 

[Da-Scribe]

One, I find it rather curious your usage of "black women change" here, as if using different hair styles is some unique element of black culture. *cough*

Two, movies at least are not filmed in chronological order. Maintaining visual continuity isn't about keeping a character looking the same from day to day, its about keeping the character looking the same from *scene to scene*. Making sure that a character doesn't look like they stopped at the hair salon in the middle of a chase scene is entirely a valid concern for a director.

Three, discrimination about hair style is a real and valid concern. I just think you are making really lousy arguments about it.

One, what is it with people constantly feeling like they have to tell minorities that aspects of their culture aren't unique? How is that even relevant? I'm not talking about other cultures. I'm just talking about black culture and am saying that within black culture, this is the relationship we have with our hair. There are whole award-winning films about it.

Two, I know how movies are made. Nadria Tucker's complaint about Johns was precisely about visual continuity from day to day and had nothing to do with changes within a scene.

Tucker tells THR that Johns objected when a Black female character's hairstyle was changed in scenes that took place on different days. "I said Black women, we tend to change our hair frequently. It's not weird, it's a Black thing," she says. "And he said, 'No, it's not.' "

Three, I don't need you to validate the existence of hair discrimination. It's like telling me the sky is blue. As far as your claim that I'm making "lousy arguments", I'm literally just reiterating completely valid statements Tucker has already made. If someone is honestly communicating to you, "This is a cultural thing." and you just blanketly say, "No, it's not." and proceed to enforce the opposite...you are actively discriminating against that person.

It's not complicated.

 

[super85]

Or maybe you know, black women change their hairstyles from one day to the next, so there isn't any continuity issue.

Well. Ok, but make that ok with the producers . If a producer says look the same, then look the same. Most People do do not that think this is a thing . Its a huge privilege to work on a crapola tv show

 

[Da-Scribe]

Well. Ok, but make that ok with the producers . If a producer says look the same, then look the same. Most People do do not that think this is a thing . Its a huge privilege to work on a crapola tv show

You don't have to do everything your boss tells you to do. That's not how employment law works in the US. An employer not thinking something is a thing, is not a valid defense against allegations of discrimination.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Having the honor to work on a tv show doesn't mean you can't face discrimination or just suck it up when it happens.

 

[super85]

You don't have to do everything your boss tells you to do. That's not how employment law works in the US. An employer not thinking something is a thing, is not a valid defense against allegations of discrimination.

I Still wait for that particular person to tell how privileged she was to write for a Superman tv show. Nothing she has Said so far makes me feel sorry for her. If your boss asks you to have continuity with your look? Sounds completely normal.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I Still wait for that particular person to tell how privileged she was to write for a Superman tv show. Nothing she has Said so far makes me feel sorry for her. If your boss asks you to have continuity with your look? Sounds completely normal.

I feel like you're not actually reading what I, others, and particularly Nadria Tucker has said. And I don't get why you need her to talk about how privileged she was. That's maybe the most ridiculous request I've read in this thread and that's honestly saying a lot.

 

[KalvinEllis]

For what it's worth: