The Rise of Skywalker Reactions to "Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker"

[P Supreme]

I just hope I don't hate it like I did TLJ that is the only thing I'm hoping for E9

 

[Travesty]

Man, some of you guys REALLY hate it that people don't like TLJ.

 

[scarlet-witch]

"low key horny" is an interesting way to describe this film.

 

[Doctor Jones]

It's important to separate what a small amount of idiots online are saying and and to stop using that to deflect from actually engaging with the movie. Judge this movie on its own terms. Stop using TLJ as some relative thing here. Like TLJ is a bad movie. The seething hate for that movie is baffling and weird. But that's another topic.

I don't want to hear the excuse of "Some people will never be pleased" as a way to disengage with the criticism of this movie either. Or being criticized as a schill if you do.

I just know instead of a substantive critique of this film it's going to devolve into a tribalistic thing. It's going to be less about the movie and more about how the fans are seeing the movie. Or Johnson vs. Abrams. Or some stupid political thing. If you don't like this movie you're a misogynistic alt right troll and if you like it you're some SJW.

And the thing is... who cares about all of this? Get off of Twitter guys. These movies's reactions have been more fascinating based in how awful social media has become and is engaged with than actually discussing the movies themselves.

 

[Iceman]

He called the Last Jedi "The Dark Knight of Star Wars movies lol...

I really like TLJ but make of that what you will

Thanks. I guess my opinions aren't going to be close to his then lol.

 

[BatLobster]

It's important to separate what a small amount of idiots online are saying and and to stop using that to deflect from actually engaging with the movie. Judge this movie on its own terms. Stop using TLJ as some relative thing here. Like TLJ is a bad movie. The seething hate for that movie is baffling and weird. But that's another topic.

I don't want to hear the excuse of "Some people will never be pleased" as a way to disengage with the criticism of this movie either. Or being criticized as a schill if you do.

I just know instead of a substantive critique of this film it's going to devolve into a tribalistic thing. It's going to be less about the movie and more about how the fans are seeing the movie. Or Johnson vs. Abrams. Or some stupid political thing. If you don't like this movie you're a misogynistic alt right troll and if you like it you're some SJW.

And the thing is... who cares about all of this? Get off of Twitter guys. These movies's reactions have been more fascinating based in how awful social media has become and is engaged with than actually discussing the movies themselves.

I liked TLJ, but the most disappointing thing about the whole fallout was not being able to have a nuanced conversation with like...anyone. The line in the sand got drawn real fast, and it became this false dichotomy where it was either the worst or greatest thing that ever happened to Star wars and I'm over here like...."Hey, what about us who thought it was like...the 4th or 5th best Star Wars movie and really admired certain aspects of it?"

But yeah social media...it feels inescapable because we all want to be a part of the conversation and know what people are talking about. But it's rough out there, and it's not conducive to intelligent conversations.

Hopefully we'll be able to find some here. That's one thing I used to enjoy about this place.

 

[Broseph44]

I liked TLJ, but the most disappointing thing about the whole fallout was not being able to have a nuanced conversation with like...anyone. The line in the sand got drawn real fast, and it became this false dichotomy where it was either the worst or greatest thing that ever happened to Star wars and I'm over here like...."Hey, what about us who thought it was like...the 4th or 5th best Star Wars movie and really admired certain aspects of it?"

But yeah social media...it feels inescapable because we all want to be a part of the conversation and know what people are talking about. But it's rough out there, and it's not conducive to intelligent conversations.

Hopefully we'll be able to find some here. That's one thing I used to enjoy about this place.

I hope so but kind of get the feeling that won’t happen. Already seeing the line being drawn in the sand again. It’s either one side or the other apparently.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I liked TLJ, but the most disappointing thing about the whole fallout was not being able to have a nuanced conversation with like...anyone. The line in the sand got drawn real fast, and it became this false dichotomy where it was either the worst or greatest thing that ever happened to Star wars and I'm over here like...."Hey, what about us who thought it was like...the 4th or 5th best Star Wars movie and really admired certain aspects of it?"

But yeah social media...it feels inescapable because we all want to be a part of the conversation and know what people are talking about. But it's rough out there, and it's not conducive to intelligent conversations.

Hopefully we'll be able to find some here. That's one thing I used to enjoy about this place.

I'm right there with you, man. Personally, TLJ is a fine film, but ultimately doesn't go anywhere or pushes the story forward and it botches the promising characters from TFA, which was the best thing about it. I loved Luke's stuff though. Rey goes unchallenged and just becomes more nascent, Finn has the same exact arc as the last movie, and Kylo just becomes Darth Vader. You know it's bad when Poe, the most superfluous character in TFA is given the best character arc besides Luke. Everyone winds up exactly where they did at the beginning. Its thematics, while great and interesting are there to justify faux change and uses its "We have the moral victory" message as an end all be all. It's an exercise in gradualism.

Social media is not for discourse. It's for ego. It's function is rooted in ego. And when you try to have discourse, it's inherently flawed. It's augmented our tribalistic tendencies, where you need to prove you are part of one group, so you need to act like that group to be accepted or else you will be cast out by that group. And these SW movies have been no exception. As if these movies are political. They're movies made by a conglomerate who do not give two ****s about your politics.

It's a shame. It could have been used for connecting other people from all over but it didn't do that. It's divided us even more. My God, Twitter was once used for Ashton Kutcher to tweet about his lunch. Remember those quaint days? Now it's for sociopathic Presidents to announce policy with people ruining other people's lives and alienation and culture wars and false outrage. It's really empowered us to become the worst of ourselves because we can hide behind it. Think if Twitter was around during Salem or the Red Scare.

As for this film... I pretty much know what I'm getting. I'll be open minded and fair, but my God... judging by the last four years, what makes me think I'll suddenly have a radical change of heart? I hate confirmation bias, but this movie just screams everything I've come to hate about direction of this franchise. At this point, talking SW is like hitting a brick wall for me. I don't care about the future of SW anymore. And it makes me sad.

 

[Limonade]

I'm right there with you, man. Personally, TLJ is a fine film, but ultimately doesn't go anywhere or pushes the story forward and it botches the promising characters from TFA, which was the best thing about it. I loved Luke's stuff though. Rey goes unchallenged and just becomes more nascent, Finn has the same exact arc as the last movie, and Kylo just becomes Darth Vader. You know it's bad when Poe, the most useless character in TFA is given the best character arc besides Luke. Everyone winds up exactly where they did at the beginning. Its thematics, while great and interesting are there to justify faux change and uses its "We have the moral victory" message as an end all be all. It's an exercise in gradualism.

Social media is not for discourse. It's for ego. It's foundation is built on ego. And when you try to have discourse, it's inherently flawed. It's augmented our tribalistic tendencies, where you need to prove you are part of one group, so you need to act like that group to be accepted or else you will be cast out by that group. And these SW movies have been no exception. As if these movies are political. They're movies made by a conglomerate who do not give two ****s about your politics.

It's a shame. It could have been used for connecting other people from all over but it didn't do that. It's divided us even more. My God, Twitter was once used for Ashton Kutcher to tweet about his lunch. Remember those quaint days? Now it's for sociopathic Presidents to announce policy with people ruining other people's lives and alienation and culture wars and false outrage. It's really shown the worst of ourselves because we can hide behind it.

As for this film... I pretty much know what I'm getting. I'll be open minded and fair, but my God... judging by the last four years, what makes me think I'll suddenly have a radical change of heart? I hate confirmation bias, but this movie just screams everything I've come to hate about direction of this franchise. At this point, talking SW is like hitting a brick wall for me. I don't care about the future of SW anymore. And it makes me sad.

I'm not going to bother. I clocked out after TLJ. The original story for me was always about Luke Skywalker. How they bungled this sequel trilogy, I don't even know where to begin. But I know it's not the same.

I usually have to spend $100+ on tickets and food for the family. But nobody in my family is clamoring to see this film. And quite frankly, it'll be better spent on more presents under the tree this year.

It'll arrive on Disney+ anyhow... so I can wait, if I really feel the need to watch this film.

 

[Captain Tired]

I'm not going to bother. I clocked out after TLJ. The original story for me was always about Luke Skywalker. How they bungled this sequel trilogy, I don't even know where to begin. But I know it's not the same.

I usually have to spend $100+ on tickets and food for the family. But nobody in my family is clamoring to see this film. And quite frankly, it'll be better spent on more presents under the tree this year.

It'll arrive on Disney+ anyhow... so I can wait, if I really feel the need to watch this film.

+1

Not even the sound of the Emperor's laughter was enough to coax me back. It sounded desperate, if anything . Quite clearly a ploy to win back all the people that were lost with TLJ.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I liked TLJ, but the most disappointing thing about the whole fallout was not being able to have a nuanced conversation with like...anyone. The line in the sand got drawn real fast, and it became this false dichotomy where it was either the worst or greatest thing that ever happened to Star wars and I'm over here like...."Hey, what about us who thought it was like...the 4th or 5th best Star Wars movie and really admired certain aspects of it?"

But yeah social media...it feels inescapable because we all want to be a part of the conversation and know what people are talking about. But it's rough out there, and it's not conducive to intelligent conversations.

Hopefully we'll be able to find some here. That's one thing I used to enjoy about this place.

I really enjoyed TLJ, despite not thinking it was as good as TFA, but the fallout and some fans reactions caused me to hate discussing the film and leave the star wars community for a while. As hyped as I am for this film, and trust me I am, part of me can't wait until it's over so that I don't have to deal with the toxic portion of fandom anymore

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'm not going to bother. I clocked out after TLJ. The original story for me was always about Luke Skywalker. How they bungled this sequel trilogy, I don't even know where to begin. But I know it's not the same.

I usually have to spend $100+ on tickets and food for the family. But nobody in my family is clamoring to see this film. And quite frankly, it'll be better spent on more presents under the tree this year.

It'll arrive on Disney+ anyhow... so I can wait, if I really feel the need to watch this film.

When I walked out of TLJ, I had the sinking feeling that this was the franchise. And I was shocked to find people loving it or hating it for strange reasons. It's not terrible nor is it great. I just wish more people were talking about how this franchise hasn't done anything really new or pushed things forward. Instead, it's just people criticizing "Toxic fandom" and what's wrong with you if you don't like something they like.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm right there with you, man. Personally, TLJ is a fine film, but ultimately doesn't go anywhere or pushes the story forward and it botches the promising characters from TFA, which was the best thing about it. I loved Luke's stuff though. Rey goes unchallenged and just becomes more nascent, Finn has the same exact arc as the last movie, and Kylo just becomes Darth Vader. You know it's bad when Poe, the most superfluous character in TFA is given the best character arc besides Luke. Everyone winds up exactly where they did at the beginning. Its thematics, while great and interesting are there to justify faux change and uses its "We have the moral victory" message as an end all be all. It's an exercise in gradualism.

Social media is not for discourse. It's for ego. It's function is rooted in ego. And when you try to have discourse, it's inherently flawed. It's augmented our tribalistic tendencies, where you need to prove you are part of one group, so you need to act like that group to be accepted or else you will be cast out by that group. And these SW movies have been no exception. As if these movies are political. They're movies made by a conglomerate who do not give two ****s about your politics.

It's a shame. It could have been used for connecting other people from all over but it didn't do that. It's divided us even more. My God, Twitter was once used for Ashton Kutcher to tweet about his lunch. Remember those quaint days? Now it's for sociopathic Presidents to announce policy with people ruining other people's lives and alienation and culture wars and false outrage. It's really empowered us to become the worst of ourselves because we can hide behind it. Think if Twitter was around during Salem or the Red Scare.

As for this film... I pretty much know what I'm getting. I'll be open minded and fair, but my God... judging by the last four years, what makes me think I'll suddenly have a radical change of heart? I hate confirmation bias, but this movie just screams everything I've come to hate about direction of this franchise. At this point, talking SW is like hitting a brick wall for me. I don't care about the future of SW anymore. And it makes me sad.

I love you Doctor Jones. Couldn't have said it better about Twitter.

 

[DKDetective]

I'm right there with you, man. Personally, TLJ is a fine film, but ultimately doesn't go anywhere or pushes the story forward and it botches the promising characters from TFA, which was the best thing about it. I loved Luke's stuff though. Rey goes unchallenged and just becomes more nascent, Finn has the same exact arc as the last movie, and Kylo just becomes Darth Vader. You know it's bad when Poe, the most superfluous character in TFA is given the best character arc besides Luke. Everyone winds up exactly where they did at the beginning. Its thematics, while great and interesting are there to justify faux change and uses its "We have the moral victory" message as an end all be all. It's an exercise in gradualism.

I was with you until the second bolded excerpt. You do know that Poe's entire character arc in TLJ was pure character assassination right?

Half of the fun of the character in TFA was that he was not your typical hotshot pilot reeking of toxic masculinity. Poe's entire character background throughout canon was that of a good guy whose heroes were his mother, a fighter pilot in the Resistance, and Leia. Then all of a sudden Rian turned him into your stereotypical toxic pilot who can't take orders from a woman in TLJ. That is not interpretation, that is Rian's actual concept of the character:

“[Poe] is a hotshot pilot, so you ground his X-wing and you face him with the question of bravado vs. true heroism, which is leadership,” explained Johnson. “I started watching World War II movies, because you see that type of relationship reflected a lot in films like ’Twelve O’Clock High’ or ‘The Dawn Patrol.’ The fact that it’s a woman, and not only that, but it’s a woman who isn’t in a general’s outfit but has a real feminine energy, seemed like the toughest thing that Poe could come up against.”

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm not a Rian Johnson hater, but I never understood that view of Poe Dameron either. I found it very odd.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I was with you until the second bolded excerpt. You do know that Poe's entire character arc in TLJ was pure character assassination right?

Half of the fun of the character in TFA was that he was not your typical hotshot pilot reeking of toxic masculinity. Poe's entire character background throughout canon was that of a good guy whose heroes were his mother, a fighter pilot in the Resistance, and Leia. Then all of a sudden Rian turned him into your stereotypical toxic pilot who can't take orders from a woman in TLJ. That is not interpretation, that is Rian's actual concept of the character:

“[Poe] is a hotshot pilot, so you ground his X-wing and you face him with the question of bravado vs. true heroism, which is leadership,” explained Johnson. “I started watching World War II movies, because you see that type of relationship reflected a lot in films like ’Twelve O’Clock High’ or ‘The Dawn Patrol.’ The fact that it’s a woman, and not only that, but it’s a woman who isn’t in a general’s outfit but has a real feminine energy, seemed like the toughest thing that Poe could come up against.”

I get how Poe is inconsistent from TFA to TLJ. I personally didn't have a problem with it because Poe in TFA is just a pilot dude with charisma but not much more than that character wise. But yes, I get how you and others would be unhappy about not continuing that.

Plus man, I get canon, but these things aren't as sacred when it comes to the movies. I think it's unfair to base a criticism on if Johnson didn't follow something from a comic. Movie to movie? Different story, even if it can still be flexible to some degree, so again I see why you would have a problem with it from TFA to TLJ. I think Johnson's words are being looked at too literally. I think it's more about thematically this archetype becoming deconstructed. And yes, using a female is a means to do that. It's not a criticism of Holdo or the female sex, it's a deconstruction of Poe and the concept of him becoming a leader. He grows in the end to move beyond all of that. Whether you like this idea or not, he changes. In terms of writing and the execution, it succeeds in functionality.

 

[DKDetective]

I'm not a Rian Johnson hater, but I never understood that view of Poe Dameron either. I found it very odd.

I really like Rian as filmmaker. Knives Out is perhaps my favourite film of the year so far, but I think he was really the wrong person for Episode 8. I don't think he understood the characters that JJ and Kasdan created for Episode 7. He just wasn't the right fit for Episode 8. The accelerated production schedules probably didn't help as well. He started writing TLJ before TFA was done and JJ had fine tuned the characters. I really think the old 3 years between films schedule is necessary for these trilogies to succeed. It gives the filmmakers time to catch their breath and evaluate what worked and what didn't in the last installment. You can't do that if they are already breaking the story and in pre-production for the next one before the last one is even out? How do you course correct?

After watching the Mandalorian, I really think Favreau would have been a better fit for Episode 8. I think he has a better sense of Star Wars and the type of archetypal characters that inhabit the universe.

 

[Limonade]

I really like Rian as filmmaker. Knives Out is perhaps my favourite film of the year so far, but I think he was really the wrong person for Episode 8. I don't think he understood the characters that JJ and Kasdan created for Episode 7. He just wasn't the right fit for Episode 8. The accelerated production schedules probably didn't help as well. He started writing TLJ before TFA was done and JJ had fine tuned the characters. I really think the old 3 years between films schedule is necessary for these trilogies to succeed. It gives the filmmakers time to catch their breath and evaluate what worked and what didn't in the last installment. You can't do that if they are already breaking the story and in pre-production for the next one before the last one is even out? How do you course correct?

After watching the Mandalorian, I really think Favreau would have been a better fit for Episode 8. I think he has a better sense of Star Wars and the type of archetypal characters that inhabit the universe.

Oh yeah, Favreau has proven himself sooo much in his understanding with Marvel and Star Wars...

How Kennedy couldn't approach Feige, is beyond me. Obviously, hindsight being 20/20, I would've preferred him handle an Episode of Star Wars rather than give him a redo on the Lion King. A missed opportunity.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think the problem is bigger than Johnson. I think Disney and Kennedy just have a very conservative idea about this franchise and it started with TFA. They got Abrams because they saw eye to eye on what it is. Favreau would not help in my book. The Mandalorian is still about a Boba Fett type iconography character going to planets that all look the same with Yoda, but as a baby. And season two goes to Tatooine with Tuskan Raiders. And there's plenty of practical effects with western influences. I've seen all of these things.

Guys, I hate to sound like a broken record, but this franchise is being strangled by lack of new ideas and pushing things forward, not oversaturation or Rian Johnson. They didn't spend three billion dollars only to be just making TV shows and have the movies to go on a hiatus.

 

[Travesty]

Nahhhhh, it's Rian Johnson.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Nahhhhh, it's Rian Johnson.

I hope you're kidding man, but if you're not let's just agree to disagree. The guy fell short of expectations, I think we can all agree on that, just for different reasons it seems.

My friend calls him Ruin Johnson which I will admit is funny.

 

[TheVileOne]

Also, I still love Mandalorian.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

I mean I see where Doctor Jones is coming from, but for me personally The Mandalorian still brings something to the Star Wars franchise that I believe has been lacking for years, especially with these newer movies. At least that series feels like it's in the same universe as the OT which is something I definitely can't say about the prequels or even this new stuff honestly and this is coming from someone who has actually enjoyed the new movies for the most part.

 

[Doctor Jones]

That's fine if you enjoy it, but it would be nice to get things other than things we've seen already. I could enjoy the idea behind this show if the movies were more creatively diverse and occasionally we'd see something like this. But the type of thing the Mandolorian is is the only thing we see about this franchise.

 

[DKDetective]

That's fine if you enjoy it, but it would be nice to get things other than things we've seen already. I could enjoy the idea behind this show if the movies were more creatively diverse and occasionally we'd see something like this. But the type of thing the Mandolorian is is the only thing we see about this franchise.

How is the Mandalorian something that we have seen before and stagnant? It is definite growth. Before the Mandalorian, Star Wars has been dominanted by stories of heroic Jedi and their allies waging an under ending war against the forces of the darkside. It is defined by the monomyth and that type of fantastical hero's journey. The Clone Wars, Rebels, and the games typically fall in that mold. (Even Rogue One and Solo are just prequels to certain characters or events of the main Saga.)

The Mandalorian is the first real property that steps outside that to tell a new story involving original characters. To claim that is old news because it is a bounty hunter in the Boba Fett style doesn't make sense. Boba Fett, the Star Wars underworld, and bounty hunting were at most window dressing and mise en place for the Saga films. They are a natural place to explore and to grow, something intriguing, but not focused on in the main films. Taking interesting background ideas from the Saga and expanding on them is precisely how to grow the franchise is a natural way.