The Rise of Skywalker Colin Trevorrow No Longer Directing Star Wars Episode IX

[scarlet-witch]

I'm torn with DOTF and TROS. They're both awful in my opinion but I feel like DOTF had better "bones" so to speak.

I liked that Rey had the dual lightsaber and questioned the jedi order's teachings. I liked that Finn had a huge role that didn't involve him screaming "REY!" at every turn. I liked that Rose had an extended role (even though not a fan of her getting tortured) and same with Hux. I think him trying to use the force is dumb but considering I left TLJ expecting him to try to overthrow Kylo, it was better than him just being a spy. I liked that Luke talked to Kylo, which I still cannot believe didn't happen in TROS.

On the other hand, DOTF had a few things I actually hated more than what we got in TROS, which was Kylo's entire arc being so divorced from the main one and kind of stupid. And Rey and Poe as an almost couple, because that's such a lazy Leia/Han redux and Poe is written like a complete moron in DOTF. Give me FinnPoe or give me nothing.

Both were garbage with TROS being the better of the two overall and that's a very low bar. JJ was given some decent ideas from Trevorrow's script that he should've just improved upon instead of trying to write an entire trilogy's worth of adventures to shove into one movie.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Can't wait to read this!!!

 

[Pennywise]

 

[henzINNIT]

I can believe it was designed by a child.

 

[Frodo]

I found DOTF much better a story than TROS . To me, its no contest at all.

It makes a much better sequel to TFA and TLJ imo, and finds a way to stay true to both without undermining them , while at the same time , calling back to the PT and OT.

In the end, the biggest issue is the portion built around Leia/ Carrie Fisher, though I think they could have adjusted that aspect of story if they truly wanted to to take into account Fisher's passing while retaining the story.

How would DOTF have been executed? Who knows. They'll always be a "what if" factor.

But for me, the story flaws of DOTF ,don't come anywhere near the flaws of TROS.

 

[henzINNIT]

I found DOTF much better a story than TROS . To me, its no contest at all.

It makes a much better sequel to TFA and TLJ imo, and finds a way to stay true to both without undermining them , while at the same time , calling back to the PT and OT.

In the end, the biggest issue is the portion built around Leia/ Carrie Fisher, though I think they could have adjusted that aspect of story if they truly wanted to to take into account Fisher's passing while retaining the story.

How would DOTF have been executed? Who knows. They'll always be a "what if" factor.

But for me, the story flaws of DOTF ,don't come anywhere near the flaws of TROS.

The most staggering difference to me is how apparent it is that DOTF was written before TLJ was released. It just follows on from the story, whereas TROS gets busy trying to 'deal' with it.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The most staggering difference to me is how apparent it is that DOTF was written before TLJ was released. It just follows on from the story, whereas TROS gets busy trying to 'deal' with it.

And that's the part that hurts, honestly. DOTF embraces TLJ and in retrospect, it sounded like a vastly superior movie to TROS. It's a shame, really. TROS really has retroactively made me look at the previous 2 films differently, even though i still think TFA and TLJ are good films.

 

[henzINNIT]

And that's the part that hurts, honestly. DOTF embraces TLJ and in retrospect, it sounded like a vastly superior movie to TROS. It's a shame, really. TROS really has retroactively made me look at the previous 2 films differently, even though i still think TFA and TLJ are good films.

I normally resist saying something 'ruined' its predecessors, but for TROS I might make an exception. It does so many careless, reductive, and stupid things that it undermines the sequel trilogy and even the saga as a whole. The most obvious example for me is the Rey Nobody reveal in TLJ. An absolutely fantastic scene, totally trampled over. I basically ignore TROS in order to retain my fondness for the other two, which I do like a lot.

 

[Marvolo]

I normally resist saying something 'ruined' its predecessors, but for TROS I might make an exception. It does so many careless, reductive, and stupid things that it undermines the sequel trilogy and even the saga as a whole. The most obvious example for me is the Rey Nobody reveal in TLJ. An absolutely fantastic scene, totally trampled over. I basically ignore TROS in order to retain my fondness for the other two, which I do like a lot.

I haven't even watched TFA or TLJ since ROS was released. It just feels pointless, because I'm never going to get a good ending to any of the plot threads established in 7 & 8. Abrams even retroactively ruined the post-ROTJ expanded universe for me. I was really interested in the First Order and how it was founded and functioned, but with Snoke being a clone and the reveal of the Final Order I just dont care about it anymore.

 

[TheVileOne]

I like the conspiracy theory on Saltier than Krait that Disney purposefully undermined and ruined Abrams' cut of Rise of Skywalker because he signed a huge deal with Bad Robot at Warner Bros., and they are scared of Abrams potentially directing DC films for WB.

 

[Fincher]

I like the conspiracy theory on Saltier than Krait that Disney purposefully undermined and ruined Abrams' cut of Rise of Skywalker because he signed a huge deal with Bad Robot at Warner Bros., and they are scared of Abrams potentially directing DC films for WB.

That's...certainly a theory. I might actually believe something like that was possible if we were talking about some low budget throwaway movie he was making for Disney and not, you know, Star Wars.

 

[TheVileOne]

That's...certainly a theory. I might actually believe something like that was possible if we were talking about some low budget throwaway movie he was making for Disney and not, you know, Star Wars.

I can certainly believe Abrams had mandates that were creatively stifling. However, I just can't believe this was some giant long con by Disney to hurt Abrams' reputation for directing big movies, potentially DC ones at Warner Bros., when Star Wars is such a big huge important brand you have so much invested in Disney. Even with some of the corporate blunders, corporate stupidity decisions that have been made over the years.

 

[henzINNIT]

I haven't even watched TFA or TLJ since ROS was released. It just feels pointless, because I'm never going to get a good ending to any of the plot threads established in 7 & 8. Abrams even retroactively ruined the post-ROTJ expanded universe for me. I was really interested in the First Order and how it was founded and functioned, but with Snoke being a clone and the reveal of the Final Order I just dont care about it anymore.

I can understand that, totally. I was less invested in the EU, and have come to appreciate TLJ as an ending of sorts, so it did less damage. I like 5 Star Wars films, all the ones with V in them. It's like poetry.

The galaxy feels so small and pointless after TROS. No-one wants that era expanded.

 

[Brother Jack]

TROS is such a resolute failure of a movie. There are certainly worse Star Wars movies, a couple of them in fact, but I don't know if there's any that failed in the same way this film did, considering what it was ostensibly aiming to do. I still like VII and VIII, compromised as they are, and hopefully I will be able to appreciate them in spite of IX, and to judge them based on their own merits and not how the third film in their trilogy botched the landing. I'm not there yet though. I don't see myself revisiting them for a long time. It kind of broke my heart, to be honest.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm still in such a weird place with TROS. It seems like most people hate it on the merit of all the Palpatine stuff. I honestly still like the choice to use him. But I can't help but feel like we are dealing with some very rough execution and not necessarily an inherently terrible idea. I think the idea for Rey's arc in the film was honestly pretty spot-on. The execution of it, different story. I guess it's just easy for me to separate it that way. I read the novel, and while still not amazing- the overall story honestly works fine when it's divorced from that jerkily-paced hackjob edit of a film. There was no 'perfect' ending to the Star Wars saga because it's a deeply wonky an imperfect mythology, and has always been.

I don't know. The sequel trilogy just ended up being a really exhausting experience. I feel like everyone went into it as a wide-eyed child hoping for the world, and came out of it bitter and jaded for different reasons. Very similar to the prequels.

 

[TheVileOne]

I liked Force Awakens because we had fresh new set of characters and I felt like we were sort of finally moving on from the older stories. I liked that Kylo Ren and Snoke were new antagonists and there was no Palpatine.

Now, when Snoke died, I was, "OK...well...commit to it." Kylo Ren killed Snoke. He decided he'd be the Supreme Leader now. You have to commit to that. I still think killing Luke Skywalker in the second movie was a big mistake. Audiences were not ready to part with Luke in that way. It was confusing and it felt like a bait and switch with a rotten carrot. That's the ONE thing I would change about Last Jedi, if I can only change about one thing.

What they did with Leia in Rise of Skywalker functionally doesn't work.

I think Abrams and Disney are to blame with Rise of Skywalker. A case of wanting to please everybody and as a result, pleasing nobody.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

This is what happens when you don’t have an outline of an arc reserved for the trilogy and just let the filmmakers bust their whims on it however they please.

“But, but ....that’s how it was in the OT”. The OT was lightning in a bottle. Having an overall story worked out is a lot more pragmatic than trying to recapture that lightning.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I don't know. The sequel trilogy just ended up being a really exhausting experience. I feel like everyone went into it as a wide-eyed child hoping for the world, and came out of it bitter and jaded for different reasons. Very similar to the prequels.

Yup. Exhausted is the best way to describe it, to the point where I don't want to watch them again.

Star Wars can't get out of the way of itself. In my mind, the nostalgia for the OT has crippled it from moving on and has stopped filmmakers from being able to fully do something new. I loved TFA, and TLJ was the chance to move on, but unfortunately it tripped again due to the star wars audience truly not knowing what they want.

 

[BatLobster]

Yup. Exhausted is the best way to describe it, to the point where I don't want to watch them again.

Star Wars can't get out of the way of itself. In my mind, the nostalgia for the OT has crippled it from moving on and has stopped filmmakers from being able to fully do something new. I loved TFA, and TLJ was the chance to move on, but unfortunately it tripped again due to the star wars audience truly not knowing what they want.

I was thinking about this when The Batman trailer hit. The advantage that a property like that has over Star Wars is that it's been allowed to reinvent itself over and over through the years to the point that we crave and get excited about seeing new takes and new ideas. We want to see the thing we love in a new way. At least enough people do that it's been able to flourish in different iterations. It's become a part of the tradition.

With Star Wars, to Lucas' credit I do think he tried to do that with the prequels. They just unfortunately weren't good enough films to back it up despite how original they were, so a lot of fans just became even more nostalgic for the OT (while younger fans grew up with those as their Star Wars films). This left Star Wars fandom in a broken place going into the ST, where honestly-- no matter what they did, it was going to alienate large sections of the audience. Especially when you are adding more story to a story that already had been wrapped up in a satisfying bow.

I think with The Mandalorian and Rogue One, they are starting to figure out ways to do some fresh things with the universe. But I think it's a lot easier to do this when you are telling stories a bit more removed from the Jedi and the more mythic aspects of the universe (although both touch on it). For a lot of people, Star Wars is always going to be Vader, Luke, Leia, Han, Obi-Wan, Chewie, Lando, Yoda, R2 and 3PO. That's just the way it is. It's a blessing and a curse.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I was thinking about this when The Batman trailer hit. The advantage that a property like that has over Star Wars is that it's been allowed to reinvent itself over and over through the years to the point that we crave and get excited about seeing new takes and new ideas. We want to see the thing we love in a new way. At least enough people do that it's been able to flourish in different iterations. It's become a part of the tradition.

With Star Wars, to Lucas' credit I do think he tried to do that with the prequels. They just unfortunately weren't good enough films to back it up despite how original they were, so a lot of fans just became even more nostalgic for the OT (while younger fans grew up with those as their Star Wars films). This left Star Wars fandom in a broken place going into the ST, where honestly-- no matter what they did, it was going to alienate large sections of the audience. Especially when you are adding more story to a story that already had been wrapped up in a satisfying bow.

I think with The Mandalorian and Rogue One, they are starting to figure out ways to do some fresh things with the universe. But I think it's a lot easier to do this when you are telling stories a bit more removed from the Jedi and the more mythic aspects of the universe (although both touch on it). For a lot of people, Star Wars is always going to be Vader, Luke, Leia, Han, Obi-Wan, Chewie, Lando, Yoda, R2 and 3PO. That's just the way it is. It's a blessing and a curse.

Agreed completely. And it's why the nostalgia complaints are sometimes valid and sometimes not. I felt force awakens did it we'll while TROS was just a collection of greatest hits. That's because most star wars fans want to go into a theater experiencing a child like feeling but it's just not gonna happen. Stuff like Mando really is the only place for star wars to go without it tripping over itself but even then, as great as it is, Mando still still relies on the aesthetic of the old even if people don't admit it. The best thing for star wars to do now is to have Mando run the show and everything else go to sleep for a long time.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Why was BB8 with Rey at the end? Isn’t BB8 Poe’s droid? It seems it was only there so JJ can have a final shot of Rey and BB8. His creations. Even though it makes little sense.

 

[Gothamsknight]

As someone who defended this trilogy up until TROS, the ending of TROS was very cringe. from the kiss on.

 

[henzINNIT]

I'm still in such a weird place with TROS. It seems like most people hate it on the merit of all the Palpatine stuff. I honestly still like the choice to use him. But I can't help but feel like we are dealing with some very rough execution and not necessarily an inherently terrible idea.

Totally execution to blame. Palpatine returning had merit (though it wasn't the only choice) but needed to be handled with great care. And it wasn't. Palpatine's role is probably the sloppiest element of a very sloppy script.

 

[BatLobster]

Totally execution to blame. Palpatine returning had merit (though it wasn't the only choice) but needed to be handled with great care. And it wasn't. Palpatine's role is probably the sloppiest element of a very sloppy script.

I agree. I bugs me whenever people say stuff like "bringing Palpatine back was a huge mistake that ruins everything", cause I think it's conflating an idea with the execution of said idea, and it's also letting the film off the hook for sloppily handling what could have actually been a good way to tie the saga up as one big 9 part story, as was clearly the intention.

Palpatine is one of my favorite aspects of the saga, and I think Ian's portrayal of him makes for one of the most deliciously evil screen villains of all time. I also think this trilogy struggled a lot with trying to fill the Emperor's void, and I never bought into Snoke. So I was 100% behind the choice to tie him in and I couldn't have been more excited when the teaser dropped. My disappointment comes from knowing that the way they brought him back just felt extremely lazy and immediately gave tons of ammunition to people who were skeptical of it.

As far as canon goes, it's not at all a stretch for me to believe that the guy obsessed with cheating death had these contingency plans and clones and Sith rituals, and blah blah. The idea of a quasi-undead, deteriorating Palps in search of a new host body works just fine for me. But in movie terms, to undo the ending of Return of the Jedi with a handwave right at the top of the film felt like they weren't even trying to sell us on this being a shocking development. The Emperor being back deserved to feel like a really big deal, and it unfortunately never was able to have the impact it should've had.

Why was BB8 with Rey at the end? Isn’t BB8 Poe’s droid? It seems it was only there so JJ can have a final shot of Rey and BB8. His creations. Even though it makes little sense.

JJ tried to send BB8 off with Rey at the end of TFA too, until Rian asked him to swap BB8 for R2, which...makes more sense.

 

[fan4stic]

I agree. I bugs me whenever people say stuff like "bringing Palpatine back was a huge mistake that ruins everything", cause I think it's conflating an idea with the execution of said idea, and it's also letting the film off the hook for sloppily handling what could have actually been a good way to tie the saga up as one big 9 part story, as was clearly the intention.

Palpatine is one of my favorite aspects of the saga, and I think Ian's portrayal of him makes for one of the most deliciously evil screen villains of all time. I also think this trilogy struggled a lot with trying to fill the Emperor's void, and I never bought into Snoke. So I was 100% behind the choice to tie him in and I couldn't have been more excited when the teaser dropped. My disappointment comes from knowing that the way they brought him back just felt extremely lazy and immediately gave tons of ammunition to people who were skeptical of it.

As far as canon goes, it's not at all a stretch for me to believe that the guy obsessed with cheating death had these contingency plans and clones and Sith rituals, and blah blah. The idea of a quasi-undead, deteriorating Palps in search of a new host body works just fine for me. But in movie terms, to undo the ending of Return of the Jedi with a handwave right at the top of the film felt like they weren't even trying to sell us on this being a shocking development. The Emperor being back deserved to feel like a really big deal, and it unfortunately never was able to have the impact it should've had.

I think doing it is more repeating things. I don't like either ideas of Palps back or Kylo being the villain, though with Palp as the villain, I see the villain as more of something to oppose the heroic characters, in the fiction of the movies, and it not, to me, feel random.

JJ tried to send BB8 off with Rey at the end of TFA too, until Rian asked him to swap BB8 for R2, which...makes more sense.

R2 D2 has no connection to Rey. It'd only just activated at the end of TFA. Even in TLJ, I think it's mainly there for that Leia ANH callback.