Justice League Real Talk - Where does the DCEU go from here? - Part 1

[spider-neil]

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/11/do...-rotten-tomatoes-c-robert-cargill-1201898270/

Even Marvel writer suspecting RT bias now.

RT forced embargo cost WB/JL millions.

 

[Greenlite]

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/11/do...-rotten-tomatoes-c-robert-cargill-1201898270/

Even Marvel writer suspecting RT bias now.

I'm not saying if anyone is doing it, but if you give 1-2 press per city or foreign country advanced previews or exclusives, and those press get increased traffic for publishing info before others, traffic and clicks = money, and they only get it if they maintain goodwill with their coverage etc...

it's so simple to manipulate it.

 

[Cats]

You almost attracted hundreds of parademons with that.

t:

 

[Matt]

Moved this to a more appropriate thread..

You realize the critic selects the rotten/fresh rating when they submit their review, right? No conspiracy unless hundreds of critics have gotten together and said "let's really **** over DC!"

Seriously...grow up. This conspiracy theory nonsense is absurd.

 

[spider-neil]

You realize the critic selects the rotten/fresh rating when they submit their review, right? No conspiracy unless hundreds of critics have gotten together and said "let's really **** over DC!"

Seriously...grow up. This conspiracy theory nonsense is absurd.

Not a conspiracy, but holding back reviews opening weekend would have seemed that WB was ashamed of their product to the general audience.

 

[Web-Head]

I'd honestly be okay with Whedon directing the next Superman solo

 

[Matt]

I'd honestly be okay with Whedon directing the next Superman solo

No one is gonna take a gamble on Whedon right now. His business partners are sweating bullets. After the things his ex wife said, in this current climate, anyone in business with Whedon is just waiting for that second shoe to drop.

 

[Dark Raven]

A couple of points.

Trying to put on my general audience hat, they probably didn't like the last one (BvS) - too dark or different to what I wanted or expected, over the year when they saw JL they saw

1) Gal and Ben
2) Troubled production headlines every now and then
3) S*** reviews

The last one basically nailed the coffin.

So Gal and Ben are now the face of the franchise (Henry's not even in 99% of the promos), if Gal didn't turn GA off, who did?

---------> someone high profile, had a divorce with a celebrity wife, went to alcohol rehab, and announced he's quitting directing Batman, and the "will he, won't he drama"

*Back to fanboy hat.

Is that gonna boost or harm the movie?

That's why I think Affleck's really the face of the universe, not Henry, and I'd argue him leaving and let Gal, ?Jake, Margot and ?The Rock be the face for now would benefit the brand.

Please let me know if there are GA who just hate Henry Cavill, I've chatted with clients who like CBM and is a Deadpool fan, he didn't watch BvS and the first thing he asked me was "is it that bad? must be that guy...Ben Affleck".....ok we Kiwis really dislike him for Argo (there's a line of "the kiwis didn't help") and I've heard at least 2-3 real life people just...dislike him? I've never heard of any random/real person bad mouthing Henry though, and his live interviews are just so lovable...

I say let Gal be the face of the franchise. The general audience already accept and love her more than Affleck or Cavill. It wasn't so long ago that Affleck was universally panned anyway after DD, Gigi and other films.

Also, any DC film Affleck has been in hasn't exactly been successful. He's been the common link in BvS and JL. On the other hand, although Gal has been in those films as well, she's always been considered the stand out, and she had her own movie too which was mega successful and critically acclaimed.

One of the criticisms of JL is that, after the WW movie, suddenly now WW seems more of a supporting character in this team movie and has to be encouraged to lead by Batman. It's as if she needs a man to empower her. It would've been better received if she had been the outright leader. It would also have stood out more than other franchises by having a woman out in front and in charge.

We didn't really see her giving orders to the team like Captain America, who is written as a more natural leader who can't help but lead, because that's who he is. That should also be who Diana is, especially since she has lived longer and is more experienced. But the way she was written for JL watered her down, even from her own movie.

 

[Arachnerd]

I'm actually starting to think that WB is going to move forward with all of their Batman properties i.e Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, etc., creating the BCU, and shelve the rest of the DCEU outside of Wonder Woman.

Uh, hello, Aquaman?

Please tell me you're not one of those people that thinks WB will moronically scrap it.

 

[Boom]

I do think the unrelentingly negative press this film has gotten on social media over the past year certainly didn't help. Honestly, I struggle to recall one positive article about this film that didn't come with some sort of caveat. Otherwise it has been nothing but drama on websites like Facebook and Twitter. And with how commonplace those websites have become, the negativity and bad buzz had plenty of time to seep in and fester. Warner Brothers was simply unable to get out ahead of it.

But beyond that, there are any number of reasons as to why this film is failing. None of the trailers or TV spots were effective at promoting this as a "must see" event at theaters. The trailers themselves looked ugly as ****. The film is sandwiched between a Thor movie, a Pixar movie, and a Star Wars movie. You're throwing a bunch of characters at the screen that nobody has reason to care about. You ****ing killed Superman in the last film.

This movie needed to be good in order to save itself. There was absolutely no room for error. Even with a weak opening weekend, a good movie could have generated decent enough word-of-mouth to maintain a steady box office throughout its theatrical run. But taking all of those factors in account, combined with the fact that it's a bad movie? This thing will crash and burn.

 

[Web-Head]

No one is gonna take a gamble on Whedon right now. His business partners are sweating bullets. After the things his ex wife said, in this current climate, anyone in business with Whedon is just waiting for that second shoe to drop.

I'm not saying he's my preferred choice, but if WB announced it I'd be completely cool with it

 

[MbJ]

I do think the unrelentingly negative press this film has gotten on social media over the past year certainly didn't help. Honestly, I struggle to recall one positive article about this film that didn't come with some sort of caveat. Otherwise it has been nothing but drama on websites like Facebook and Twitter. And with how commonplace those websites have become, the negativity and bad buzz had plenty of time to seep in and fester. Warner Brothers was simply unable to get out ahead of it.

But beyond that, there are any number of reasons as to why this film is failing. None of the trailers or TV spots were effective at promoting this as a "must see" event at theaters. The trailers themselves looked ugly as ****. The film is sandwiched between a Thor movie, a Pixar movie, and a Star Wars movie. You're throwing a bunch of characters at the screen that nobody has reason to care about. You ****ing killed Superman in the last film.

This movie needed to be good in order to save itself. There was absolutely no room for error. Even with a weak opening weekend, a good movie could have generated decent enough word-of-mouth to maintain a steady box office throughout its theatrical run. But taking all of those factors in account, combined with the fact that it's a bad movie? This thing will crash and burn.

True. A lot of analysts suggested that Ghost in the Shell's failure stemmed from how every single article about the movie across the web had to at least mention the controversy.

With the age of the internet it's very easy for a movie to have a negative narrative about it from the beginning that's impossible to overcome.

 

[JOE]

What sort of loss would WB be looking at if they scrapped Aquaman right now?

I personally didn't care for anything outside of his personality. I thought the underwater scenes were brutal and felt claustrophobic.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Uh, hello, Aquaman?

Please tell me you're not one of those people that thinks WB will moronically scrap it.

Of course not, but it’s going to have to do good business to not become a one-shot.

 

[Arachnerd]

What sort of loss would WB be looking at if they scrapped Aquaman right now?

I personally didn't care for anything outside of his personality. I thought the underwater scenes were brutal and felt claustrophobic.

Lots of money and p***ing off James Wan who's delivered them some of their most profitable franchises.

In other words, financial suicide.

 

[JOE]

Lots of money and p***ing off James Wan who's delivered them some of their most profitable franchises.

In other words, financial suicide.

Opposed to staying the course where you biggest property might actually lose you money after a 3 year investment?

 

[Boom]

You have to think they've already poured $100 million into Aquaman just for production costs.

 

[spider-neil]

Aquaman just wrapped. It won't be shelved. WB is in too deep.
Movies that haven't started filming, however...

 

[JOE]

Aquaman just wrapped. It won't be shelved. WB is in too deep.
Movies that haven't started filming, however...

I don't see a Cyborg movie happening. I see WB releasing Aquaman and focusing on the Batman movie and WW/MOS sequel. Batfleck might not even be involved in the Batman either, this is such a disaster. Someone needs to push the big red button...

 

[Tacit Ronin]

No one is gonna take a gamble on Whedon right now. His business partners are sweating bullets. After the things his ex wife said, in this current climate, anyone in business with Whedon is just waiting for that second shoe to drop.

It's funny how fast he fell from grace, in 2012 he was basically a god.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I'm not saying if anyone is doing it, but if you give 1-2 press per city or foreign country advanced previews or exclusives, and those press get increased traffic for publishing info before others, traffic and clicks = money, and they only get it if they maintain goodwill with their coverage etc...

it's so simple to manipulate it.

So you are saying WB, who has a 30% stake in RT, may manipulate reviews to their liking, right?

 

[MbJ]

Cyborg was never gonna happen. That was a "Your move, Marvel" power play. Wasn't it even rumored he was being folded into the Flash movie after a while?

 

[Cats]

You realize the critic selects the rotten/fresh rating when they submit their review, right? No conspiracy unless hundreds of critics have gotten together and said "let's really **** over DC!"

Seriously...grow up. This conspiracy theory nonsense is absurd.

This something you say to anyone who asks a question? Geez... talk about needing to grow up.

 

[JOE]

Cyborg was never gonna happen. That was a "Your move, Marvel" power play. Wasn't it even rumored he was being folded into the Flash movie after a while?

Don't know anything about those rumors to be honest.

Let's look at the untouched properties in this DCeU:

Martian Manhunter
Green Lantern (no lead)
Shazam
Green Arrow

Plus throw in the trinity, because you can't have a league without the trinity.

I think that's enough to restart with. You don't need a solo Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman movie. You could intertwine those 3 among the other 4 solo movies.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

This something you say to anyone who asks a question? Geez... talk about needing to grow up.

Maybe you can not totally ignore the people who have already given you answers as to why some scores are rotten and others fresh. That would be the grown up thing to do.