Reality Check(Budget vs. Profit)

[CapBeerCino]

It really depends on your attitude going into a movie. These ARE comic book movies after all. Given the scientific impossibility of most superpowers, you will be able to find errors and plot holes in all of them. I'm sure you had no problem in X2 with Magneto magically appearing at the exact spot where the X-Jet crashed because you weren't in nitpick mode. And I'm sure you didn't conduct a volume analysis of the amount of water held back by the dam and the acreage and height the water supposedly covered upon its collapse. But because you went into X3 predisposed to dislike it, your negativity antenna was fully operational. Nothing anyone can do about that for ya!

Maybe I didn't notice the errors because x-2 had a strong story that stuck while in x-3 it fell apart so I had the time to nit-pick?

The first two scenes made me think the movie will be good so don't tell me what mode I was in. Too bad the movie went down hill from there till it hit the bottom.

Maybe it's your belief that x-3 is the best comic book movie ever that made you blind to how silly the story is and how huge the plot holes are?

 

[PowersOfMind]

What were these major errors that came from X3?

I know it had its little inconsistencies but what were these major ones people are talking about.

 

[danoyse]

Okay, let's say they boost security up a bit (how bout, like 3 times more personnel on duty). So let's see, does that change the fact that Magneto, Mystique and Sabertooth alone could probably take them ALL out without a shot being fired? No. In fact, its laughable.Anyway you look at it, the mutants were better prepared - Mystique would've given the team perfect intelligence, Magneto would still win if up against 100 security guards, and nobody but Wolverine could stand up to Sabertooth in close quarters combat.

They could take them out easily...but once a number of them go missing, it's noticed. My friends and I love the movie, but we're always joking around about how no one noticed all the commotion going on at the statue. It's not that far away.

Besides, consider the budget X1 had. They couldn't include EVERYTHING. On the other hand, X3 could've, but for various reasons (rushed production, etc.) didn't. For X1 and X2, people have to nitpick to pick out the flaws - in X3, they are blatantly obvious. The flaws in X1 and X2 do not hurt the story at all, whereas in X3, it does (at some points), and reduces it to nothing but an action summer blockbuster.

Or maybe because AICN told everyone for a year to be mad at Fox so they would notice plotholes in X3. I mean honestly, everyone who screams "rushed production schedule" (who hasn't worked on a movie set a day in their lives) in their review sounds like the political pundits giving talking points during an interview on a cable news channel.

In X1, you can see a wire behind a guy Sabertooth is about to throw. You can see someone kneeling next to Mystique driving the boat. Wolverine's hair changes in two different shots, and he occassionally had an Australian accent. There's a rather implausible plot with a bad guy sticking a mutant machine on top of the Statue of Liberty. I'm still not entirely sure we needed to know what happened to a toad when it was struck by lightning.

But I love that movie. It's one of my favorite comic book movies.

It's like Spiderman 2...one of the best action sequences is when Spiderman is fighting Doc Ock on the L-train. I'm from NY. There's no L-train in Manhattan. In fact, some of the shots are clearly streets in Chicago. I still think it's one of best scenes of the movie.

I loved X-Men 2, but it did seem like the school was 'outed' during the movie. How were they allowed to stay open? You can't tell me that Xavier stopping time during a live TV broadcast to explain everything to the President made everything OK again. How does Wolverine get away with killing all those soldiers??

But again, it's a great movie.

I actually thought X3 had the best plot of the 3...because a cure for mutants and how they would respond is a great story. My only gripe with the movie was that it wasn't long enough to explain it further.

And...that would be your opinion. Fact is, they are THAT different. Obvious, something is wrong when you have such a huge budget yet fail to reproduce the same financial success as the previous two installments of the trilogy. A blind man would see that something IS different.

And again, a movie site pointing it out for a year so you would see it only made it easier.

You know...if you wanted a version where Magneto rows across the bay like Washington crossing the Delaware instead of ripping apart the Golden Gate Bridge, however logically inaccurate that may be...I'm not sure that would have made it a better movie.

 

[Theweepeople]

Not really. What were Stryker's glasses frames made of when he visited Magneto in prison in X2? Oh that's right, plastic covered with metallic-looking paint. Not to mention that the average human body contains about 5 grams of iron. In fact, the whole plastic prison scene falls apart if you overanalyze it. You guys are funny.

Good point. Except I can fathom that it's not too hard for scientists to design a cheap pair of glasses without any metal in them that were to be used only for Stryker's interogation of Magneto. Your other question is definitely intriguing however, I have read quite a few of the old X-Men comics and remember that Magneto had limitations with how much control he had over metal in small concentrations. The reason he was able to kill the prison guard injected with Fe by Raven was because the concentration of metal was higher than the threshold Magneto needed to use his powers.

 

[BMM]

It really depends on your attitude going into a movie. These ARE comic book movies after all. Given the scientific impossibility of most superpowers, you will be able to find errors and plot holes in all of them. I'm sure you had no problem in X2 with Magneto magically appearing at the exact spot where the X-Jet crashed because you weren't in nitpick mode. And I'm sure you didn't conduct a volume analysis of the amount of water held back by the dam and the acreage and height the water supposedly covered upon its collapse. But because you went into X3 predisposed to dislike it, your negativity antenna was fully operational. Nothing anyone can do about that for ya!

Normally I don't bother with these silly debates about which movie is more laughable but I must be in a weird mood today--or maybe it was just that the whole "debate" itself was so laughable I couldn't resist!! (Kind of like the original premise of this thread that international ticket sales somehow don't factor into a movie's profitability.)

You mean the scene where, before being attacked, Jean clearly states "We're coming up on mansion now."--obviously meaning the X-Men are near the school . . . followed by the scene in which Magneto states he needed the X-Men's help to locate Stryker's base . . . as in Magneto was headed toward the school to receive help from the X-Men in order to locate Stryker--the same enemy the X-Men are needing to find because he is holding Xavier captive. That scene isn't quite as random as people would like to believe. People just don't pay attention.

Actually, the initial premise of this thread was that The Last Stand's budget v. profit percentages, when compared to other comparable blockbusters, don't hold up well . . . and guess what? International figures detract from The Last Stand even more.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9292348&postcount=3540

 

[danoyse]

Well, that was another thing....Storm and Jean flew that afternoon from Westchester to Boston to get Nightcrawler, were on their way back but weren't getting a signal, finally tracked them back to Boston the next morning.

It looked like they were flying all night. Boston and Westchester aren't that far away from each other. Where did they go???

 

[danoyse]

That scene isn't quite as random as people would like to believe. People just don't pay attention.

No, it was the fact that he happened to be in that exact spot at that exact time. What are the odds of that??

 

[BMM]

No, it was the fact that he happened to be in that exact spot at that exact time. What are the odds of that??

No different than the odds of you running into someone you know at any given time . . . these aren't impossibilities . . . especially considering Magneto is looking for the X-Men . . . and it's not as though Magneto (a man who is capable of delicately wielding a hole shut in an aircraft spiraling out of control from far away) isn't capable of slowly guiding the X-Jet toward him once he sees that it is shot down and plummeting toward the earth . . . yes, the X-Jet does start heading in a singular direction and begins to slow down (obviously some occurence is happening to the X-Jet, hence Storm's line to Jean, "Jean?!" not to mention the shot of the X-Jet's instruments altering--hence the ability and power of Magneto. Why not?

 

[SickBoy]

It seemed to me that X3 had the most hype and most advertising that I've ever seen for any movie... ever. I wonder how much was spent on marketing?

 

[Theweepeople]

Well, that was another thing....Storm and Jean flew that afternoon from Westchester to Boston to get Nightcrawler, were on their way back but weren't getting a signal, finally tracked them back to Boston the next morning.

It looked like they were flying all night. Boston and Westchester aren't that far away from each other. Where did they go???

Well, it has been a pleasure answering some of your questions Danoyse and I believe there are no stupid questions to ask however, I know you can answer some of these questions yourself. After reading this question it took me less than 30 seconds to come up with a couple of theories as to where Storm and Jean went.

 

[Theweepeople]

It seemed to me that X3 had the most hype and most advertising that I've ever seen for any movie... ever. I wonder how much was spent on marketing?

Lee's Box office report has the budget at 165 million. Box office mojo has it as 210 million. Therefore, I believe 45 million was spent on marketing. That's an absurd amount of money to spend on a movie that was claimed to be epic.

 

[ntcrawler]

Well, it has been a pleasure answering some of your questions Danoyse and I believe there are no stupid questions to ask however, I know you can answer some of these questions yourself. After reading this question it took me less than 30 seconds to come up with a couple of theories as to where Storm and Jean went.

Also keep in mind that even mutants with super powers have to sleep, eat, go to the bathroom, etc. They don't have your special ability to stay up for 3 nights surviving on Mountain Dew and Doritos. Regardless of how far Boston is from Westchester County, NY if they've been on they feet for 16-18 hours a day (or longer, Rogue, Logan, Pyro and Bobby had a rude awakening) then it's gonna catch up with them eventually

 

[danoyse]

No different than the odds of you running into someone you know at any given time . . . these aren't impossibilities . . . especially considering Magneto is looking for the X-Men . . . and it's not as though Magneto (a man who is capable of delicately wielding a hole shut in an aircraft spiraling out of control from far away) isn't capable of slowly guiding the X-Jet toward him once he sees that it is shot down and plummeting toward the earth . . . yes, the X-Jet does start heading in a singular direction and begins to slow down (obviously some occurence is happening to the X-Jet, hence Storm's line to Jean, "Jean?!" not to mention the shot of the X-Jet's instruments altering--hence the ability and power of Magneto. Why not?

Exactly...that's what makes them enjoyable.

 

[danoyse]

Well, it has been a pleasure answering some of your questions Danoyse and I believe there are no stupid questions to ask however, I know you can answer some of these questions yourself. After reading this question it took me less than 30 seconds to come up with a couple of theories as to where Storm and Jean went.

Oh come on...you're answers are always hilarious.

 

[liamoversion2]

Oh come on...you're answers are always hilarious.

I find some of your answers pretty funny too dude!

Arr me Hearties!

Where did they go in the X-Jet? They went on their own little adventure to the countryside, where Jean became Phoenix and the whole Phoenix saga went down off screen with Storm and Jean. That's what happened. Bryan Singer told me.

Apparently Halle Berry asked, 'Could you just make me Phoenix? Will it really matter if it's not Famke?' Bryan slapped her.

 

[PhoenixRisen]

No different than the odds of you running into someone you know at any given time . . . these aren't impossibilities . . . especially considering Magneto is looking for the X-Men . . . and it's not as though Magneto (a man who is capable of delicately wielding a hole shut in an aircraft spiraling out of control from far away) isn't capable of slowly guiding the X-Jet toward him once he sees that it is shot down and plummeting toward the earth . . . yes, the X-Jet does start heading in a singular direction and begins to slow down (obviously some occurence is happening to the X-Jet, hence Storm's line to Jean, "Jean?!" not to mention the shot of the X-Jet's instruments altering--hence the ability and power of Magneto. Why not?

Thanks for proving the point I was trying to make!!

 

[Theweepeople]

Oh come on...you're answers are always hilarious.

Actually they are quite profound. Could you give me an example of one my hilarious answers?

 

[ntcrawler]

Hey Theweepeople, I see we come from similar backgrounds. I also studied chemistry extensively and work in the medical field so I know a thing or two about needles and syringes as well. I think there's a simpler explanation to what's going on that doesn't require needles made from plastic or glass or something even more exotic. Consider this:

Magneto's power is the ability to control and manipulate magnetic fields. NOT metals themselves. Non-ferrous metals generally are not affected by magnetic fields. Examples would include titanium and aluminum. If you made the needles from those, then they would still be metallic and strong enough to be used in syringes, but Magneto would be unable to manipulate them. I know this for a fact because we use metal tools when working with MRI's and let me tell you those things can launch ferrous metals the way Magneto blasted his way out of prison in X2. So we use aluminum oxygen bottles for patients, and titanium tools.

Same goes for Stryker's glasses. I think the fans came to the wrong conclusion with this one. Being made of metal isn't enough. It has to be a type of metal that is ferrous and therefore affected by magnetic fields.

 

[Theweepeople]

Hey Theweepeople, I see we come from similar backgrounds. I also studied chemistry extensively and work in the medical field so I know a thing or two about needles and syringes as well. I think there's a simpler explanation to what's going on that doesn't require needles made from plastic or glass or something even more exotic. Consider this:

Magneto's power is the ability to control and manipulate magnetic fields. NOT metals themselves. Non-ferrous metals generally are not affected by magnetic fields. Examples would include titanium and aluminum. If you made the needles from those, then they would still be metallic and strong enough to be used in syringes, but Magneto would be unable to manipulate them. I know this for a fact because we use metal tools when working with MRI's and let me tell you those things can launch ferrous metals the way Magneto blasted his way out of prison in X2. So we use aluminum oxygen bottles for patients, and titanium tools.

Same goes for Stryker's glasses. I think the fans came to the wrong conclusion with this one. Being made of metal isn't enough. It has to be a type of metal that is ferrous and therefore affected by magnetic fields.

It is always a pleasure to chat with a fellow chemist. You are right about non-ferrous metals being affected less by magnetic fields than other metals however all metals are capable of generating an electric field and magnetic field on some level. So I believe Magneto is able to affect all metals with his magnetic powers. Of course the easiest metal for him to manipulate is Fe.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Hey Theweepeople, I see we come from similar backgrounds. I also studied chemistry extensively and work in the medical field so I know a thing or two about needles and syringes as well. I think there's a simpler explanation to what's going on that doesn't require needles made from plastic or glass or something even more exotic. Consider this:

Magneto's power is the ability to control and manipulate magnetic fields. NOT metals themselves. Non-ferrous metals generally are not affected by magnetic fields. Examples would include titanium and aluminum. If you made the needles from those, then they would still be metallic and strong enough to be used in syringes, but Magneto would be unable to manipulate them. I know this for a fact because we use metal tools when working with MRI's and let me tell you those things can launch ferrous metals the way Magneto blasted his way out of prison in X2. So we use aluminum oxygen bottles for patients, and titanium tools.

Same goes for Stryker's glasses. I think the fans came to the wrong conclusion with this one. Being made of metal isn't enough. It has to be a type of metal that is ferrous and therefore affected by magnetic fields.

PWN3D!!!

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

They don't have your special ability to stay up for 3 nights surviving on Mountain Dew and Doritos.

ROFLMAO!!!

 

[Xfanfan]

You know what at box office mojo this superman fan was saying how X-3 bombed because it cost 210 million in just production plus marketing. Now they are trying to make excuses for Superman saying it only costed 200 million with marketing when BOx office Mojo is listing its production at 260 million not including marketing. That is sad that now all of a sudden Box Office Mojo is not credible. In reality I never believed that budget and to me the numbers Box Office Mojo listed for both movies is including Marketing cost.

Xfanfan

 

[_BB_]

hey ntcrawler...you wouldnt happen to be a radiographer would you or work somewhere in that field?

 

[ntcrawler]

hey ntcrawler...you wouldnt happen to be a radiographer would you or work somewhere in that field?

Hey _BB_, I work as a field service engineer, I specialize in medical IT equipment (PACS, Cardiology imaging) plus work on nuclear cameras, PET scanners, some cardiology X-Ray, CT and ultrasound. I'm not a radiographer by training, but I've been taught the theory and operation of those suckers and I've been known to take XRays of strange and unusual things during equipment tests when I got bored Why?

 

[ntcrawler]

It is always a pleasure to chat with a fellow chemist. You are right about non-ferrous metals being affected less by magnetic fields than other metals however all metals are capable of generating an electric field and magnetic field on some level. So I believe Magneto is able to affect all metals with his magnetic powers. Of course the easiest metal for him to manipulate is Fe.

Yeah, I suppose then that Magneto's power is so strong that any metal regardless of how little can be affected by Magnetic fields would then be affected anyways. But I still feel that he wouldn't be able to make a weapon out of aluminum or copper the way he did with whatever metallic goop Mystique injected that poor guard with.

On the other hand then, you could conclude that Magneto's powers were actually underutilized!!!

For example, if he could generate a constantly changing, dynamic magnetic field and could pass it through a metal object, he could actually produce a potential difference and charge somthing up, even make current flow. Neat way to produce his own electrical supply, but imagine if he did that to a building's steel skeleton. Now wouldn't that be fun!

Also, magnetic fields aren't just for metals. Substances with dipole moments are also affected by magnetic fields. Water and oxygen for example. I've seen pictures of liquid oxygen suspended between the two poles of a strong electromagnet. Imagine if Magneto could exploit that. Hurling globs of liquid oxygen at your enemies... that would be fun too!