Reasons for the disappointing numbers-Discussion

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

This is a good point. I don't think it was a major reason behind the underwhelming B.O. but the whole "cloudactus" thing definitely didn't help when it came to generating positive Internet pre-release buzz. In fact, I was rather surprised that so many people responded negatively to it; I didn't know there were so many Galactus fans out there.

But what that fiasco reinforced to many people was that the studio didn't have confidence in the original source material, possibly suggesting a belief that there might be something flawed with the FF as a concept. That's not good; you must demonstrate confidence in your own product if you want your target audience to have the same confidence.

Exactly, it seems Fox hasnt had ANY confidence in ANY of their CB properties from the start, IMO they got lucky with X-Men and X-Men 2 in that they got a good director who exceeded theirs and fans expectations at the time. But now, they are being seen for what they really are. They demand that these movies be so short, it takes all chance of life and memorability out of them, this shows how little they know. Its no coincidence that the CB movie that made them the most profit and that is considered the best one to come from their studio by many is also their longest, X2.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Maybe if the producers, writers and director actually read the whole original Galactus storyline?

Im starting to think that they only read a brief description of it,and went the rest on their own.This is why there was so much plot holes,like the Power Cosmic never being mentioned...the poor description of the Surfer`s actual power...and the Surfer having a weakness.

 

[highguard]

That's because Reed was so INSANELY out of character during Civil War that it's absolutely pathetic.

Hopefully it was a Skrull imposter.

Yeah, it was hilarious, Reed seemed like a completely different human being. They are blaming it on phychohistory (ala Isacc Asimovs Foundation novels).

His cowtowing to Iron Man and other Johnny come lately heroes, that has been going on in the Marvel universe for a decade now. It is however not the Lee/Kirby Reed Richards, the guy you turn to when Galactus comes to town.

It is like someone said; "well Reed is supposed to be a nerd and so he should be submissive to people like Iron Man and Captain America."

I guess it was Iron Man's turn to make Reed look like a tool.

Or could it be that simple...........Yep, definitely a Skrull.

 

[Mysterio]

We have a BO thread full over numbers and lots of talk of other movies figures in comparison but what has caused this film to under perform ?

It seems pretty much agreed from critics to fans that it is better than the first and yet it is gonna make less which is a real shame IMO

Possible reasons for discussion

-The negative impact of the first movie

-The months competition

-Lack of action

-seeming small in scale compared to the rest of the summers big hitters

-Improved but not enough for people to care after the first

the simplest reason there is: people aren't interested in it.

 

[Mysterio]

I second this.

Though it wasn't as bad as I'd thought it'd be, it still should've been PG-13. I'm sure a PG rating turned alot of teens away from it because they think they're too "cool" to see a PG movie.

i think that's an example of coming up with any and every excuse possible to ignore the elephant in the room.

 

[Mysterio]

And that's why the argument of those who think the FF failed because they are not as well-known as Spider-Man is just wrong. The problem is the poor quality in comparison.

you're also comparing a cartoon with live action. at the heart of it, these are cartoon/comic book characters. also, one is a well-written script, the other isn't. if anything, the Incredibles should blow the PG rating argument out of the water.

 

[Bishop2]

His cowtowing to Iron Man and other Johnny come lately heroes, that has been going on in the Marvel universe for a decade now. It is however not the Lee/Kirby Reed Richards, the guy you turn to when Galactus comes to town.

It is like someone said; "well Reed is supposed to be a nerd and so he should be submissive to people like Iron Man and Captain America."

I guess it was Iron Man's turn to make Reed look like a tool.

Or could it be that simple...........Yep, definitely a Skrull.

Different writers aren't writing the same characters. In Marvel Knights 4, Reed rejects offers by Tony to get involved in helping his family out, because he'd rather the FF make it on their own. In Mark Waid's run on the main comic, Reed defies not only other heroes but also the American government and SHIELD by taking over Latveria! He very nearly starts a war with his own country just to stand up for what he believes is the right decision. These writers who write Reed as "cowtowing" to other heroes because he's a "nerd"? They're writing the Ultimate FF. The problem is, they don't know it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Different writers aren't writing the same characters. In Marvel Knights 4, Reed rejects offers by Tony to get involved in helping his family out, because he'd rather the FF make it on their own. In Mark Waid's run on the main comic, Reed defies not only other heroes but also the American government and SHIELD by taking over Latveria! He very nearly starts a war with his own country just to stand up for what he believes is the right decision. These writers who write Reed as "cowtowing" to other heroes because he's a "nerd"? They're writing the Ultimate FF. The problem is, they don't know it.

Reed took over Latveria

How stupid is that :

 

[Mercurius]

It is like someone said; "well Reed is supposed to be a nerd and so he should be submissive to people like Iron Man and Captain America."

Submissive?

If one reads the famous story in which the FF and the Avengers save Galactus' life, one notices Reed Richards is the brain behind it all, and the thing goes a lot more in the spirit of colaboration.

Iron Man gets a bit uneasy about saving the giant's life, but, nevertheless, they follow Reed's idea.

 

[Bishop2]

Reed took over Latveria

How stupid is that :

It was pretty cool. Doom was seemingly "dead," but Reed said was all like "Yeah right, how many times have we seen that happen? He'll come back, he always comes back. And every time he comes back, he comes back to his loyal subjects, his technology and his army of robots and his fortune and... no. Not anymore. Not again. This time, we leave him with nothing."

They went over to Latveria, took it over and showed the subjects what Doom was really like by revealing all the things he'd done behind their backs - they revealed the execution chambers, revealed the torture of the Doombots, etc. When Doom came back, sure enough, his subjects were no longer fans of his - now they loved the FF. Plus they destroyed all of his technological resources, so all of his nuclear power and computers were gone.

There's more to it than that, but that's the basic explanation of what was behind it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It was pretty cool. Doom was seemingly "dead," but Reed said was all like "Yeah right, how many times have we seen that happen? He'll come back, he always comes back. And every time he comes back, he comes back to his loyal subjects, his technology and his army of robots and his fortune and... no. Not anymore. Not again. This time, we leave him with nothing."

They went over to Latveria, took it over and showed the subjects what Doom was really like by revealing all the things he'd done behind their backs - they revealed the execution chambers, revealed the torture of the Doombots, etc. When Doom came back, sure enough, his subjects were no longer fans of his - now they loved the FF. Plus they destroyed all of his technological resources, so all of his nuclear power and computers were gone.

There's more to it than that, but that's the basic explanation of what was behind it.

Doom must crush Richards then

 

[Mercurius]

Although I find the "cowtowing" ridiculous, that's why I think Waid loses track of the characters. It's too far-fetched. It's like he said: "Well, let's see what remains to be done".

 

[YJ1]

Back to topic...

Exactly, it seems Fox hasnt had ANY confidence in ANY of their CB properties from the start, IMO they got lucky with X-Men and X-Men 2 in that they got a good director who exceeded theirs and fans expectations at the time. But now, they are being seen for what they really are. They demand that these movies be so short, it takes all chance of life and memorability out of them, this shows how little they know. Its no coincidence that the CB movie that made them the most profit and that is considered the best one to come from their studio by many is also their longest, X2.

For better or worse, the fans point of view is meaningless to them. What they need to realize is that FF2 is coming in light because the movie itself ventured in to no-man's land. It tried to needlessly appeal to younger kids. Forget the comic books. (I wish they wouldn't but you need to appeal to them on their level) Movie fans want more substance and kids don't want to be talked down to. The X-Men franchise proved it. FF was never meant to be the X-Men in terms of tone but they need to add more complexity if they want FF3 to hit bigger. I'm hoping that FF2 will earn enough to spawn a sequel. They then ask themselves how do they improve the franchise. Hopefully their answer will be to make it darker with more substance. FF should be fun but there's no reason they can't be fun, complex AND gritty. Coming full circle, the reason why FF was always "The World's Greatest Comic Magazine" was because you'd run the gauntlet of real life emotions taken to a fantastical level. You'd go from skrull attacks to Johnny teasing Ben to the depth of Von Doom to Sue suffering through a miscarriage. Real life family kind of stuff mixed with the fantastic. Complexity and storytelling are the key. Fox needs to understand that FF isn't a one dimensional kiddie franchise and they'll go back to making boatloads of cash. Now THAT is language studio execs can understand.

 

[Erzengel]

Oh for the love of everything good, please do not let there be a FF3.

 

[Bishop2]

Oh for the love of everything good, please do not let there be a FF3.

Nobody said you had to go see it. t:

 

[Erzengel]

Granted but I'm sick and tired of the subpar comic book movies of late.

I wanted to love Spider-Man 3 but honestly it was just "okay". Between last year's X-3, Superman Returns and this years Ghost Rider and FF2, comic book movies have really become increasingly worse.

I think it's laughable that V for Vendetta and 300 seem to get better reviews and word of mouth than the ones I just listed.

I REALLY hope that Iron Man and the Dark Knight bring back the level of quality that's been absent in the mainstream comic books.

 

[Mercurius]

Granted but I'm sick and tired of the subpar comic book movies of late.

I wanted to love Spider-Man 3 but honestly it was just "okay". Between last year's X-3, Superman Returns and this years Ghost Rider and FF2, comic book movies have really become increasingly worse.

I think it's laughable that V for Vendetta and 300 seem to get better reviews and word of mouth than the ones I just listed.

I REALLY hope that Iron Man and the Dark Knight bring back the level of quality that's been absent in the mainstream comic books.

Beautiful. There's hope here , too.

 

[Silver Knight]

Lack of promotion.

Plain and simple.

So did it flop?

 

[Fantastic-Boy]

The negative impact of the first movie.

 

[Erzengel]

Depends on what your definition of a flop is.

The critics pretty much panned it.

It looks like it's going to finish domestically along $130-$132 million.

 

[DarthAlani]

I really hope Iron man,Hulk and the Dark Knight bring back comic movies to being good. The last two years have probaly left a bad taste in peoples mouth. The reason for the low numbers for ff2 is becuase it sucked ass. not as bad as the first one but still sucked.

 

[Erzengel]

I think it's fantastic that the best recieved comic book movies in the past 2 years were the non DC and Marvel ones.

 

[Angelus7181]

If Fox is planning a Silver Surfer spin-off.. then FF3 has to be on the map also.

Besides I see the FF franchise as one of FOX's gems they would be insane to call it quits on #2.

They seem to be grasping for hope on the Wolverine and Magnito movies, so I would figure the FF will return! t:

 

[Erzengel]

^
That's kinda sad for Fox then.

 

[Milkman95]

I think it's fantastic that the best recieved comic book movies in the past 2 years were the non DC and Marvel ones.

Didn't BB come out 2 years ago?

You can also argue that V and 300 are a division of DC, can't you?

This actually isn't good news that both Ghost Rider and FF2 didn't deliver, we need good films all the way around, whether it's Marvel or DC.