Religion and Government

[Destructus86]

So, I recently read about the current issue happening in the UK where Sharia Law was added to UK laws. (particular in Wills and divorce, which allows the male to refuse any money or posessions if they are non-muslim or if they are muslim the male is given a larger portion of the income and posessions) The government in essense supported the inequality treatment of women.
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...aw-in-UK-calls-for-Parliamentary-inquiry.html)

Personally, I feel government and religion should be seperate. But we are seeing more and more here in the US and in other countries Islam slowly seeping into politics. And i'm honestly sick of it. It's bad enough that governments are supporting a religion that oppresses the opposite sex (or in other religions opposes same sex) do we really need to support a backwards belief that originated from a society that's just as backwards?

And it's not just Islam...though certainly Islam is has been having a much deeper impact politically on a global level than Christianity or some of the smaller religions.

There needs to be a complete seperation of religion and government. Oppression is never ok. No matter if it's your religion or not.

 

[Anubis]

Where is Islam seeping into politics in the states?

 

[Pink Ranger]

In my experience, the people who seem mostly concerned about Islam/sharia supposedly sneaking into American government are the same people who want to see more Christianity, particularly evangelical fundamentalist Christianity, sneak into government. At best it's kind of hypocritical.

 

[bored]

"Creeping Sharia" is a myth that is mostly propagated in states with negligible Muslim populations (it's frequently discussed in Kansas, where I'm from, and there REALLY are not many Muslims here). As Pink Ranger said, the people who generally fuss over it also tend to obsess over increasing the influence of Christianity (specifically, a very conservative, dogmatic version of Christianity) at the same time.

 

[jonathancrane]

I do not want religion of any sort influencing politics. The two spheres need to be separate.

 

[NickNitro]

As someone who was very religious at a younger age, I would not want one particular religion pushed in any form of our society.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Lets keep in mind the UK isn't exactly secular anyway. But yeah it's silly legislation.

 

[Feenix]

In my experience, the people who seem mostly concerned about Islam/sharia supposedly sneaking into American government are the same people who want to see more Christianity, particularly evangelical fundamentalist Christianity, sneak into government. At best it's kind of hypocritical.

This

It has become an Islam vs. Christianity thing.

All religion should be left out of politics, no exceptions.

 

[Hotwire]

There's really only two options when considering mixing religion and government in a country as diverse as the US.
1. Allow no religions to influence the government.
2. Allow ALL religions to influence the government.

The issue most people who insist on mixing the two is, they hate both options.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, Britain is technically a theocracy, and various religious schools are funded by the government.

That said, in the United States Christian evangelicals are the biggest group trying to affect policy.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

What exactly is written in this legislation, might I ask? Does anyone have a link to this in writing and not some biased generalised summary of it?

 

[Marvolo]

So, I recently read about the current issue happening in the UK where Sharia Law was added to UK laws. (particular in Wills and divorce, which allows the male to refuse any money or posessions if they are non-muslim or if they are muslim the male is given a larger portion of the income and posessions) The government in essense supported the inequality treatment of women.
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...aw-in-UK-calls-for-Parliamentary-inquiry.html)

Personally, I feel government and religion should be seperate. But we are seeing more and more here in the US and in other countries Islam slowly seeping into politics. And i'm honestly sick of it. It's bad enough that governments are supporting a religion that oppresses the opposite sex (or in other religions opposes same sex) do we really need to support a backwards belief that originated from a society that's just as backwards?

And it's not just Islam...though certainly Islam is has been having a much deeper impact politically on a global level than Christianity or some of the smaller religions.

There needs to be a complete seperation of religion and government. Oppression is never ok. No matter if it's your religion or not.

Some sharia law I take more issue with than others. Where a will and inheritance is concerned however I can't say much against a deceased Muslim following the Qur'an's stipulations about inheritance. The deceased can leave their stuff to who they wish. If they don't want to give their daughter or sister or whoever the same as everyone else then that's their business. That being said, if the deceased does wish to give a female relative more than the Qur'an stipulates for females then they should be free to do so as well. In the end the deceased should be able to do what he will with his stuff.

But ultimately I agree religion and government shouldn't be mixed.

 

[Marvolo]

We have a practicing muslim in the white house, which is, you know, a participant of Islam.

Radical muslims need no laws changed so as to allow them to have a majority influence within the politics of the area. As far as the UK is concerned, the muslim strategy was to have WAY MORE babies than the indigenous population. They accomplished this goal almost a decade ago and now they are simply mopping up as far as the politics go.

The rule of thumb for any national population of people to flourish both economically and genetically is to have an average reproduction rate of 4.0 children per couple. The very barest, minimum average fertility rate required, in order to maintain a viable, indigenous population is 2.1 children per couple. This 2.1 children is the absolute tipping point for ANY nation as once the fertility rate falls below this average, the end of that nation may be a foregone conclusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_aBBs4Liio

Last I looked into this some 6 or 7 years ago, the indigenous average fertility rate in the UK was WELL BELOW 2.1 and more closer to 1.6, which means they may not ever come back; however, the muslim fertility rate was well over 5.4 within Britain. The above video link, with research from just over a year ago, makes it even worse than that now. There's no hope for the UK at this point.

The muslims claim that their god, allah, has given them victory over "infidel countries" not by the sword of violence, but by mere numbers when it comes to reproduction.

Seek psychiatric help.

 

[Marvolo]

I guess that's what you believe is an adequate rebuttal. Okay.....

For the record, this idea is on TV too, so maybe this fact will cause you to accept the research's conclusions, or at the very least, come up with something more objective as a rebuttal.

You opened your post with the outrageous and unsubstantiated claim that the president was a Muslim. First of all he is not and there is no legitimate verifiable proof he is. Second, if he was - again, there is no proof that he is- that is his right as an American citizen. He can be Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jewish or pastafarian for all the Constitution cares. The Christian faith is not a legal requirement.

Furthermore, England is not doomed and there is not a worldwide conspiracy amongst Muslims to outbreed other races or religions. As I said, if you truly believe these things I suggest you seek psychiatric help. Or simply start by getting your facts and news from less biased fearmongering sources.

 

[Marvolo]

I believe anyone with the name of barrack hussein obama has at the least a muslim foundation in his faith. So it's a tomato-tomawto thing as far as the President is concerned.

However, moving on from my comment about obama, and without considering your personal animosities towards what you believe to be my "faith," the research indicates that the muslim populations, in the UK and other European countries, is growing substantially faster than the indigenous peoples. (They mentioned a ratio equal to over 16 muslim babies being born to every 2 British babies being born.)

I agree with their conclusions, which are that Britain and other UK countries are going to be predominately muslim, and therefore either under sharia law, or their politics strongly influenced by it, in our natural lifetimes.

So he's Muslim because of a name his mother gave him? You do realize how ridiculous that sounds right? Do you assume everyone's faith based on their name? I'm of German decent but have a Scottish last name and my family is Baptist and I was raised Baptist but am now a deist. I used to work for an African American Baptist who had a name that is African and Muslim in origin. His family has been Baptists for over a hundred years and he is a devout baptist. Point is you should do a little more research on a person before you jump to stereotypical and potentially racist conclusions about a person based on their names. Names they didn't choose.


Also, you should know that Barack is an African name meaning “blessed.” It is a form of both the Hebrew name Baruch and the Arabic name Mubarak, which also mean “blessed” and relate to the Arabic barakah. Another common spelling of the name is Barak. The name Baruch is in the Christian bible.

Also, Hussein was the name of his grandfather. Naming children after their grandfather is common in America.

So if we judge him based on his name we find that his name means blessed in both Hebrew and Arabic and is found in the Christian Bible and he was named after his grandfather. Oh my god alert the press!

 

[The End]

https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/w...red-exam-questions-creationist-nurseries-zoo/

A whole range of issues involving state recognition of creationism in England have occurred in the last few weeks, and we believe it’s time to get everyone writing to their MPs to speak out. We’ve provided an online service through which it’s easily possible to do so.

What’s happening?

The UK Government has been clear that young earth creationism and intelligent design are not scientifically valid theories and should not be taught as such. As a consequence, it has a policy of rejecting creationist groups that apply for funding through the Free Schools programme. As a result of our campaigning efforts, it has also banned them from teaching pseudoscience and made it a requirement for them to teach evolution. However, three issues have come up recently which are inconsistent with this policy:

State funding of creationist nurseries: We have identified 67 private nurseries which are receiving state funding through the scheme of providing free places to two to four year olds, in spite of the fact that they are creationist or otherwise unsuitable for funding through the Free Schools programme. This includes Christian creationist (Accelerated Christian Education and Christian Schools’ Trust), Charedi Jewish, Steiner and allegedly extremist Muslim groups. Some of them are using the funds to subsidise the attached private schools. Resources we bought show creationism being explicitly taught.
Censoring of exam questions: At least two Charedi Jewish schools, one of them Yesodey Hatorah Senior Girls’ Secondary School, a state funded school in Hackney, have censored exam questions due to religious concerns. The media has widely reported that this was due to concerns around evolution but there may also have been censorship over sex education. Shockingly when the exam board OCR and Ofsted learned of this they initially agreed to it. Now Ofqual are reconsidering the matter. It needs to be made clear that the censorship is unacceptable.
Endorsement of creationist zoo: Noah’s Ark Farm Zoo in Bristol has been endorsed by Learning Outside the Classroom for school visits in spite of the fact that it promotes creationism. We and Alice Roberts wrote to the Government asking it to object, but their reply has refused to do so.

 

[Marvolo]

EVERY LAST NOUN ON THE PLANET IS DERIVED FROM THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF THE WORLD, WHICH IS HEBREW. In fact, the English word tomato has its origin in Hebrew. Like I said before, it is a tomato-tomawto conundrum betwixt you and I as far as obama being muslim, and as far as names go, my real Dad is Jewish, but I have a German last name.

In Indonesia barry soetoro went to a Catholic school. So is he now a Catholic? No, in fact the Catholic school, by law in Indonesia,could only teach obama the tenets of the muslin faith.

But back to the subject and thread's topic.......

Hebrew is not the original language of the world. Not even close. This is fact and backed up by evidence.

And the English word tomato comes from the Spanish word, tomate, derived from the Nahuatl (Aztec language) word, tomatl.

 

[The End]

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Marvolo]

You come in here to post made up nonsense not relevant to the topic. That is why you are being called a troll.

 

[The End]

Nobody cares that Obama's step-father was called Soetoro. Nobody cares that Obama went to an intermixed faith school in Indonesia. Nobody cares.

The claim that Obama is Muslim is very old and has been debunked years ago.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

If Obama was Muslim, it wouldn't matter.

It actually looks worse for you, if you're not a troll.

It would look like you're getting yourself all emotionally worked up about things that don't matter, buying into bizarre conspiracy theories, a victim of a derangement syndrome in which you can't even properly express what the problem is.

Is that better, than being a simple troll?

 

[Marvolo]

I've been trying to get back to the OP's topic since post #15, and still am trying to do so. Seems you're the one trolling sir.

My apologies to the thread starter.

Your assertions that Obama is a Muslim was the first irrelevant and off topic post in this thread. But I'm done engaging in your obvious attempt to troll this thread with your nonsense.

 

[The Question]

I believe anyone with the name of barrack hussein obama has at the least a muslim foundation in his faith. So it's a tomato-tomawto thing as far as the President is concerned.

However, moving on from my comment about obama, and without considering your personal animosities towards what you believe to be my "faith," the research indicates that the muslim populations, in the UK and other European countries, is growing substantially faster than the indigenous peoples. (They mentioned a ratio equal to over 16 muslim babies being born to every 2 British babies being born.)

I agree with their conclusions, which are that Britain and other UK countries are going to be predominately muslim, and therefore either under sharia law, or their politics strongly influenced by it, in our natural lifetimes.

Edit to add:

"The most important weapon of the Arabs is the “Arab womb,” the motto being: “If we can’t defeat them in war, let’s outbreed them.” - Yasser Arafat

“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory." - Houari Boumedienne (sp?)

“There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The fifty million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades. Europe is in a predicament, and so is America.” - Muammar Gaddafi

​

1: Muslims who are UK citizens are themselves British.

2: What indication is there that most Muslims living in Western nations want to live under "Sharia law."

3: Most of the trends you talk about here are inaccurate or entirely false:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe#Projections

4: And finally, even if the Muslim population is dramatically increasing in the west, so the **** what? Muslims have lived in Europe for centuries. They've been apart of the US since it was founded. They're just people, no different than you are me. Some of them are *****, some of them are awesome, some of them take their religion way to seriously at the expense of others, some of them are like goddamn saints. The problems right now in the middle east are significantly more complicated than simple religious differences. People are just people, to argue otherwise in this case is just straight up bigotry.

 

[Schlosser85]

This has gone on long enough. Thinly-veiled Muslim-bashing threads are not welcome here.

 

[terry78]

Jonathan Steingard, Christian singer, no longer believes in God - CNN