Return of the Jedi Return of the Jedi Appreciation Thread

[Gianakin_]

I figured Luke was a backup in case Leia failed. But he did want to use R2 as a means to get his saber if and when the time came. 3PO... I figured they all prayed he'd be disintegrated at some point, but the Force was not with them on that one.

 

[ThePhantasm]

While I love ROTJ, despite it's script problems, the one thing that does bug me is the characterization of Leia. She's so passive here.

Yeah, they did not seem to know what to do with her in this film. Though, to be honest, Han kinda gets shortchanged too. He doesn't get to fly the Falcon, doesn't do a whole lot on Endor, and the first part of the film he's in carbonite...

 

[Octoberist]

Han doesn't even get to ride a speeder bike!

Yeah, that's why now, I'm noticing more of the script problems rather when I was a kid.

But it's not obvious script problems at first glance, until you realize it seems that Leia and Han had nothing to do. That being said, there are great moments in the film (Luke's scenes with the Emperor).

I do wish Luke teased at jumping to the dark side throughout the entire film, instead of one scene. It was the next logical step but I guess Lucas saw otherwise.

 

[Gianakin_]

RotJ-Han proves Ford's request to kill off the character in or post-ESB was a just one. He saw that Han's arc was over.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Han dying would have added to Luke's push to the dark side, increasing the tension. It would give Lando a more understandable reason to be flying the Falcon in the end. And while I think Jabba is a great character, the opening bit on Tatooine needed to be shortened some.

 

[Octoberist]

Yeah those Jabba's palace scenes are great, but we do spend a lot of time there.

 

[Octoberist]

RotJ-Han proves Ford's request to kill off the character in or post-ESB was a just one. He saw that Han's arc was over.

Yeah it does. I disagreed when I was kid when I found out about this, but now, I see it in a whole new light.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I also don't think Endor is a very interesting planet, especially not for the climactic finale. Consider:

Tatooine - Large, open vistas. Epic scale, lots of room. Great for introducing the heroes.

Hoth - Large, open vistas. Epic scale, lots of room. Great for an epic battle.

Dagobah - Close, tight, constrained. Mysterious. You don't know what lurks in the mist. Great place for Jedi training.

Bespin - Large, open sky. Epic scale, lots of room. Great place for a climactic duel.

Endor - Tight spaces, lots of trees. Not exotic, basically just a forest setting. Not really epic, just underwhelming.

 

[Octoberist]

I think due to budgetary reasons, they probably got stuck with Oregon. Not to say it's not beautiful but you can always make a forrest look beautiful and surreal in movies like Legend or (later) in Lord of the Rings. Perhaps they should've used more sets for Endor for certain scenes so it doesn't look so ordinary.

Or maybe they should've just filmed Endor in England.

 

[Gianakin_]

Makes RotJ feel more TV-like compared to the others, really. At least the upper levels (the more Kashyyyk-y ones) had something.

 

[Octoberist]

Something like Chewie's planet. I wouldn't be surprised if that was Lucas' original intent with Endor.

I know it's not fair to compare a 1983 film to a 2001 film but in Fellowship of the Ring, when they're not in a forest (a mix of sets and on location) they're in a giant field against the mountains. It feels epic.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I had read that Lucas originally intended to use Wookies, but went with Ewoks to appeal to kids.

Which I always thought was weird, because the Star Wars universe ALREADY appealed to kids.

 

[Gianakin_]

Something like Chewie's planet. I wouldn't be surprised if that was Lucas' original intent with Endor.

Surely you know that RotJ was going to feature Kashyyyk an the Wookies and due to budget restraints they became Endor and Ewoks respectively. That's why we got the Wookie segment in RotS, as a tribute to RotJ.

 

[Gianakin_]

I had read that Lucas originally intended to use Wookies, but went with Ewoks to appeal to kids.

Which I always thought was weird, because the Star Wars universe ALREADY appealed to kids.

From what I've read, he couldn't do the Kashyyyk of the concept art designs and he couldn't get the right number of tall enough guys to do the climactic battle.

 

[Octoberist]

It seems like Lucas got way over his head, and had to constantly rewrite everything till the last minute. Not just Endor, but with the original idea of Imperial City and the Emperor's Volcano Throne Room. Plus, he didn't know if Ford was going to come back. I think out of the original three, ROTJ's script was the least polished.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Well, if you can't do wookies then for pete's sake think up something else... don't go with short wookies.

 

[Octoberist]

From what I've read, he couldn't do the Kashyyyk of the concept art designs and he couldn't get the right number of tall enough guys to do the climactic battle.

I think too that he started to realized that he couldn't use Wookies as the primitive types when Chewbacca knows how to fix and fly ships (and droids), and shoot with a blaster.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Imperial City would have been so much better than Death Star 2.0.

 

[Gianakin_]

ESB's script was pretty rushed, too (and had to be rewritten from scratch), but he had a capable guy doing the rewrites.

 

[Gianakin_]

Imperial City would have been so much better than Death Star 2.0.

Ha, the Imperial City draft had 12 Death Stars. No joke.

 

[Gianakin_]

I think too that he started to realized that he couldn't use Wookies as the primitive types when Chewbacca knows how to fix and fly ships (and droids), and shoot with a blaster.

That's because he was tutored by Han Solo. The others can only rip droid appendices from their sockets.

 

[Octoberist]

Well, if you can't do wookies then for pete's sake think up something else... don't go with short wookies.

I don't mind the Ewoks, but when the crew gets captured only to be saved by Luke's handiwork with C3PO, it feels like the plot stalls somewhat.

And the final battle on Endor feels small in scope too.

 

[Gianakin_]

Well, if you can't do wookies then for pete's sake think up something else... don't go with short wookies.

Agreed. Shoulda done Twi'leks. I mean, Jabba's palace had at least 2 of 'em.

 

[Gianakin_]

I don't mind the Ewoks, but when the crew gets captured only to be saved by Luke's handiwork with C3PO, it feels like the plot stalls somewhat.

And the final battle on Endor feels small in scope too.

Thank God for dat space battle.

 

[Octoberist]

They're too sexual. Sometimes it feels like Lucas is trying to play out his fantasies, with the half-naked Twi-leks and Slave Leia.