The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[Rodrigo90]

In terms of psychology,especially in Riddlers case. He suffers from obsessive compulsive disorder,he acts on impulse and cant change his mind until satisfaction is met. His obsession must be purged,or it keeps getting worse.

So he just goes through different stages until the end,but Im sure he will retain his natural look again.

He will become more and more psychologicaly damaged as the movie continues,so his madness will show through his appearance. He cant comprehend his psychological changes at first and loses himself,but his head becomes clear at the end

 

[Jordacar]

He could have the bowler hat. I mean, look what Anton Chigurh did for the man-bob.

 

[spiderfan970]

Here's your Riddler right here at 1:40.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEWQ3AXrgI[/YT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEWQ3AXrgI

 

[Rodrigo90]

Here is what I want his suit to be composed of

I think this would make Riddler look sophisticated and a little rebellious. You could even fit one giant question mark down the middle of the coat.

 

[ALittlePush]

Part one of my Riddler idea.

With Batman still at large after a six month manhunt led by Commissioner Gordon, Edward Nashton of the FBI is called in to investigate. Nashton is renowned for being an extremely dedicated agent who always gets his man. Reading through various police reports and newspaper articles detailing Batman’s heroics and misdeeds, in order to learn more about his target, Nashton theorises that Batman may suffer from a hero complex. Nashton also questions Gordon over what happened the night Harvey Dent died and Batman’s involvement, summarising that it may have been a hero attempt gone wrong.

Nashton sets up an undercover sting operation of an armed mugging in an area where Batman has been spotted several times, rationalising that Batman will be sure to try and intervene to save the young couple. The sting operation takes place and Batman does not show up. Nashton is unaware that Gordon had warned Batman of the operation and is frustrated at Batman’s lack of an appearance, thinking that Batman has outsmarted him. Nashton begins to become obsessed with catching Batman, to prove that he is the smarter man after all.

Back at the MCU, a call comes through about a breakout at Arkham. A couple of high security inmates have escaped, including the Joker. Nashton believes that Joker’s escape may have been orchestrated by Batman in order for Batman to be called upon to save the day and once again be considered a hero. Nashton realises that Batman may have thought the armed mugging was too petty to bother with and that the best way to draw Batman’s attention is to present a big enough threat that Batman can “save” the city from. He creates the persona of the “Riddler”.

What do you think so far?

 

[Faramir]

Reading through various police reports and newspaper articles detailing Batman’s heroics and misdeeds, in order to learn more about his target, Nashton theorises that Batman may suffer from a hero complex. Nashton also questions Gordon over what happened the night Harvey Dent died and Batman’s involvement, summarising that it may have been a hero attempt gone wrong.

I LOVE THIS!! Because, in essence, it is foreseeing what will happen later to Nashton... he will see his deathyl traps and the first innocent casualties as "heroic attempts (to catch Batman) gone wrong". And also, because he's assuming that Batman's not infallible and believes he is an unworthy opponent, unlike himself, who's never wrong. Brilliant.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Yeah. Good ideas ALittlePush. But what does it mean by a hero attempt gone wrong,who was trying to save who from what?

 

[Ryan]

Nolan didn't spend alot of time on the backdrop stories of Joke'sr and Scarecrow's, so I'm thinking he wouldn't spend an inordiant amount of time on the Riddler's. Also, didn't really spend alot time connecting events directly from Batman Begins to the Dark Knight. I think there will be some overlay from Dark knight (mob involvement, Batman clearing his name) but I wouldn't count on it being too linear.
I think Nolan will have his work cut out for him if he chooses the Riddler. He doesn't really have 'canon' type material to draw from for the character ala Joker and Two face. I'm really hoping that they don't do this "obsessed fed" idea, as I already felt I got the duality of the law idea with the Two face character.

 

[ALittlePush]

I LOVE THIS!! Because, in essence, it is foreseeing what will happen later to Nashton... he will see his deathyl traps and the first innocent casualties as "heroic attempts (to catch Batman) gone wrong". And also, because he's assuming that Batman's not infallible and believes he is an unworthy opponent, unlike himself, who's never wrong. Brilliant.

Thanks.

Yeah. Good ideas ALittlePush. But what does it mean by a hero attempt gone wrong,who was trying to save who from what?

Thanks. Nashton thinks that Batman may have kidnapped Gordon's family in order to then get the recognition for "saving" them. Dent turned up unexpectedly and surprised Batman. A struggle ensued between Dent and Batman which lead to Dent's death.

I'm really hoping that they don't do this "obsessed fed" idea, as I already felt I got the duality of the law idea with the Two face character.

I think it could work out quite well actually. Batman could see Nashton as another Harvey Dent- a good honest man driven to the brink of obsession by circumstances beyond their control. (In Nashton's case, by Batman evading him).

 

[Rodrigo90]

I like your ideas ALittlePush.

Im sufferering from writers block at the mo,lol.

 

[Ryan]

The biggest unresolved issue from The Dark Knight would be Batman's reputation. Why not have the Riddler as someone who knows what happened to Dent and the threatens to expose Batman and Gordon's involvement in the coverup....unless Batman leaves the mob alone. The mob always seems to be featured somehow in each movie.

 

[ALittlePush]

The biggest unresolved issue from The Dark Knight would be Batman's reputation. Why not have the Riddler as someone who knows what happened to Dent and the threatens to expose Batman and Gordon's involvement in the coverup....unless Batman leaves the mob alone. The mob always seems to be featured somehow in each movie.

How would the Riddler know what happened to Dent? He hasn't been introduced yet and I really dislike the "there all along, you just didn't see him" route.

 

[Faramir]

Batman tarnished his reputation so he could fight a more frightened mob while keeping Dent's work against them. To leave them alone would defeat all logic, he would rather reveal the whole thing than let the mafia do as they pleased. I'm all for the Fed idea. Seeing a good guy who upheld the Law turn bad is not the same as seeing an already bad guy using the Law to catch Batman and do evil stuff turn worse... into an over-the-top madman. Very different things.

 

[Ryan]

Good points I suppose. I figured the Riddler could have been like a journalist or somebody just plainly obsessed with the Batman phenomenon. I simply hate the "fed" idea. I'd rather they just have the Riddler already being the Riddler like they did with the Joker. They already had the good guy goes bad thing with Dent and they did it really well.
I simply stated the Riddler's motives would be in relation to the mob, as most of the villains so far have had dealings with them. I also don't want to see the whole "expose the identity of Batman" idea again. They've done that far too often in various shows and movies.
Creating a motive for the Riddler that would be both original and captivating would make or break the character.
My earlier idea would be that the Riddler perpetuates crimes all over Gotham and sets them up to look like Batman had done them. Thus forcing Batman to catch the Riddler and also clear his name. Not even sure if I like that idea either, but it does lead to a way for our hero to vindicate himself.

 

[Rodrigo90]

A part of the story Im writing is based on The Riddler kidnapping Coleman Reese and Det. Ramirez as they hold secrets. Batman CAN save them both,but if he does...Reese and Ramirez must reveal their secrets to the entire city,if they dont, Riddler will detonate multiple bombs placed around Gotham.

Batman is then offered a gun to kill them and if he does the secrets are safe and Gotham will clearly see he is a murderer.

This is Riddlers final act of revenge to outwit and defeat Batman and make HIM reveal the truth by his actions of refusing to kill them, eliminating everyones perception of Batmans unethical notion of "committing an evil act to preserve the greater good" created by Gordon and which Riddler was once inspired by,before going mad and committing his crimes for personal gratification.

 

[Faramir]

I simply hate the "fed" idea. I'd rather they just have the Riddler already being the Riddler like they did with the Joker. They already had the good guy goes bad thing with Dent and they did it really well.

Nowhere has been implied that Edward would be a good guy. Just a guy that happens to be a Fed, but he can be as snotty, despicable and ruthless as anyone can be. His story just happens to be a story from abiding the Law to becoming a super-criminal. It's a story about how the bad guys can even come from within the system or be sanctioned by the people and the institutions, mirroring Batman's situation of being pursued as a public enemy. Also, it is unfair to think that just because an idea has been used before (the Riddler trying to solve the mystery of who's behind the cowl) it can be used again and improved upon with a better delivery... just because Batman tries to rescue people all the time doesn't mean it shouldn't be used again. It's also puzzling to see why would you have the Riddler repeat the angle of the Joker (just appearing out of nowhere, no origin whatsoever) but don't like the Fed idea because it is a repetition. I don't get the hate for the idea, not at all. There is not better motive for the Riddler than compete against the Batman in an intellectual play and try to figure out the biggest riddle of all. That is truly faithful.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I think Edward should have Cyber skills also. Using those skills to challenge Batman. Since he is a Fed,maybe hacking into the Pentagon and causing US Defense Missiles that target Russia, to set onto launch countdown and if Batman fails to stop it using the Batcomputer...Nuclear Annihilation. This is how far Riddler will go to see Batman defeated...causing the end of the world.

So Batman ends up saving the world and not just 1 city.

 

[Mister H.]

^

 

[Rodrigo90]

^

Spoiler

t:

 

[Micah12345]

Watch nolan not even use riddler in the next movie lol.

 

[Ryan]

I honestly could see Nolan using someone else other then the Riddler for the next film.
Faramir-I'm totally in favour of them doing an "instant villain" like the Joker, over doing another Dent origin story because usually thats how the villains appear to us in tv, comics etc. You don't have to get the background story of Joker, Riddler, Penguin to understand them. Their actions speaks for themselvies. Its really only with Two Face/Dent or perhaps Catwoman that they constantly associate their backdrop story with their current actions....which is what I think makes them unique from the others.
Also with the fed idea, I'm doubting they'd spend the movie from the perspective of a bad guy hunting down Batman, rather then Batman hunting down the bad guy. Hate to keep bringing up the Seven reference, but that movie was excuted perfectly. The actions of John Doe were able to build the menace of the character and also express his intentions throughout the movie, with actually very little screen time at all. Only in the very end did it all become clear of his motives...kinda like a riddle. Do I want to see an exact repeat of that? No. But I do like the idea of the Riddler's riddles being the star of the show, over the actual Riddler himself. Quite a difference from the Joker, who is center stage all the time.
Just my opinion.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Thats what Im concerned about. I feel if Riddler was a Fed and we saw his origin and spiral into madness,it would overshadow the movie itself. Cause the plot just seems to be about Riddler. Even TDK,Harvey overshadowed things.

I would like Riddler to have a little bit of explanation,then be what he is.

Maybe have him work for a group of terrorists and they plan to heist Wayne Enterprises 30 billion fortune. Edward is already wanted by the FBI,as he is a cyber terrorist and a hot headed one,believing there is nothing he cant do.

Batman stops the thieves but Edward,outraged at his defeat by him vows to get revenge by helping the authorities (in his own way) to catch Batman.

He forms a perfect trap,but in the mean time plans crimes to challenge and torment Batman. He then forms an alliance with the Penguin,claiming that he will stop Batman (since Batman has been targeting him lately) and share the money he will steal from Wayne Enterprises,in exchange for Penguins help.

Riddler then begins plotting his challenges in many forms,to takedown Batman and steal the money from Bruce Wayne.

 

[Jolly C.]

The cyber terrorist thing is too outlandish, but i like the idea of him starting out as just a villain then getting arrested and making a deal with the cops to catch batman now thats a new direction.

 

[Mister H.]

Spoiler

t:

Let me get this straight. You suggested a plot involving Batman saving the world from nuclear annihilation-- and I'm the jerk?

 

[Rodrigo90]

Whats so bad about Batman going a little 007?