The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[S_H_F_4839]

His costume? A black suit. A fedora hat,not bowler. And an olive green overcoat. He has riddles written in words and question marks all over his coat. They symbolise the mystery he is to himself and too others. His final riddle to Batman?

"What Is Reason Behind The Enigma Of The Riddler?"

Whew,Now Im off to bed,lol.

I could actually see the coat working as long as it is reversable where if he puts it on inside out its a different color. maybe even be thats how he loses the cops and batman at one point in time turning the coat inside out and dropping the hat and running down a subway station.

I agree a little push about the idea though, the im here but you didnt see me just would not fly in movies anymore, I hate to rip off a good line, but nolan has changed things forever theres no going back, i mean that might have worked back when the first xmen came out but not anymore.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Well. I believe,since the story about Batman being wanted for murder is passing onto the next,why not another story? Its essentialy an idea to wrap up Nolans franchise. 3 is using TDK as a pillar to support it,I just took advantage of that.

I understand that the whole "he was there, but you didnt see him" thing isnt popular,but it works wit the story and if I may say...it has a better taste than Sandmans reason of appearance. Riddler was there,sucking up knowledge of things, how they work and gaining knowledge of what he shouldnt and he uses this as weapons. Like his character,he is virutally unoticeable,but that is about to change. It works with unlocking the mystery of his life through the course of the movie,for the characters and viewers.
Joker likes sadistic way of thinking and I think the whole deathtrap would be Riddlers idea. But its Jokers idea to switch the adressess,causing hurt and pain for Batman,though its not essential to me really.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

A man puts make -up to look like a clown, a man burned by acid or a man dressed up as a bat. Sure those are realistic.

Hmmmm... yeah, they are. You know, because "realistic" = "plausible", not "probable".

 

[WOWSERS]

Hi. Wow,to Rodrigo90. I absolutely love your ideas,they are really good. Even though the same thing was sorta done with Sandman in Spiderman 3,I kinda like that idea of him being there but you dont see him,it sounds better than the Sandman explanation.

All in all,you have great ideas for a new Riddler. I was kind of skeptical about his real personality from the comics being a facade in the movie,but thats a nice new spin for its reason. Great ideas man.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Riddler's appearance is inspired by Guy Pearce in Memento. They both have things scrawled across them,that reflects their damaged minds,their psychosis to be exact. In Riddlers case,question marks and riddles scrawled across his olive green overcoat. The costume is basically like a detectives,cause he COULD have been one. Detectives wear Fedora's,not Bowler hats.

Riddler was created by two people. Gordon and Batman. Gordon framed him and he cracked up in prison. He becomes a criminal,because he believes Batman is the only one who will help him uncover the question that has been haunting him for years.

Riddler doesnt always appear wearing his costume. He appears as a regular citizen,whenever Batman is about, doing one of his challenges.

 

[Rodrigo90]

OK. You probably wont believe me. But I came up with the idea of Riddler only being heard on the phone before AA VG. I was inspired by Kiefer Sutherland in Phonebooth and Ghostface in Scream. So you mainly hear him, rather than see him.

Also,I need Riddler to have connections to the Mob. Cause with Maroni out of commission,his businesses are up for takeover. Riddler gains possession of a drug factory and forms an alliance with the Penguin to run it. He uses Penguins men cause they dont know who he really is. He also plants deathtraps in Arkham Asylum and bomb in Falcone's cell,which Batman must stop, Riddler also lures Gordon into a trap,which he is chased by a knife weilding Zsaz.

Thank You WOWSERS, I appreciate that.

 

[ALittlePush]

Also,I need Riddler to have connections to the Mob. Cause with Maroni out of commission,his businesses are up for takeover. Riddler gains possession of a drug factory and forms an alliance with the Penguin to run it. He uses Penguins men cause they dont know who he really is. He also plants deathtraps in Arkham Asylum and bomb in Falcone's cell,which Batman must stop, Riddler also lures Gordon into a trap,which he is chased by a knife weilding Zsaz.

Riddler can still have connections to the mob. It's just the "there all along, you just didn't see him" route when introducing a new character just feels a little bit of a letdown IMO.

 

[ALittlePush]

Riddler's appearance is inspired by Guy Pearce in Memento. They both have things scrawled across them,that reflects their damaged minds,their psychosis to be exact. In Riddlers case,question marks and riddles scrawled across his olive green overcoat.

Wouldn't the general audience go "that's just like Memento"?

Riddler doesnt always appear wearing his costume. He appears as a regular citizen,whenever Batman is about, doing one of his challenges.

I really liked your idea about Riddler appearing at each scene in disguise.

 

[Rodrigo90]

The whole thing about him knowing Harvey's coverup was going to be the main threat. Threatening what Batman believes in and trying to uphold for the best interests of Gotham City.

But I guess I can cut the idea that Riddler was there and let him do his detective work to figure it out.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Wouldn't the general audience go "that's just like Memento"?

Guy had things tattooed on his body to help him remember. Riddler has riddles and question marks painted on his jacket to symbolise the mystery that he is to himself and to others.

Its also a deliberate clue to help Batman progress. Cause Riddler WANTS Batman to succeed, but wants him gradually understand this.

 

[Brother Jack]

Hmmmm... yeah, they are. You know, because "realistic" = "plausible", not "probable".

The basic concepts are plausible, yes. But the way in which they are portrayed in the story is inherently unrealistic, because they are too close to their fictitious comic book counterparts. What Nolan has done with the characters (and with Gotham as a whole) is make them appear close to the real world by using pseudo-scientific explanations and aesthetic changes and such, but as they are the characters can never be truly realistic.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

the way in which they are portrayed in the story is inherently unrealistic, because they are too close to their fictitious comic book counterparts.

I can't follow your logic here. Comics are not inherently unrealistic. If movie Bruce wears suits, is that unrealistic because comics Bruce wears them too?

 

[Brother Jack]

I can't follow your logic here. Comics are not inherently unrealistic. If movie Bruce wears suits, is that unrealistic because comics Bruce wears them too?

I meant the characters in the comics. Batman was born in the comics as a character that could not fully exist in the real world, and unless you change a majority of his elements (which would basically not make him Batman) he can never exist in the real world. I'm talking about the fact that Batman is never caught or murdered, his equipment, the obvious stuff.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

Maybe we're talking about "realism" in two different senses. I'm talking about it as opposed to fantasy/sci-fi, and you are talking about probability. And you would be right to. Every story that deals with many high stakes and improbable outcomes is unrealistic then. But it's not because these bat-films derive from comic books. It's just that 99% of action films are definitely unrealistic. But Nolan has pushed the realism angle farther than anyone else before him, and set the quality bar quite high by doing so. In my world, if something works, keep doing it. That leaves room for sci-fi-ish stuff such as the microwave emitter and the sonar.

But the one things Nolan CANNOT lose sight of when it comes to realism, is motivations. Thin motivations are the principal ingredient of bad writing, especially when it comes to characterizations. And, as such, many of his characters often resemble real people, except rare ocassions. The moment a drastic change is made to that, the quality of the franchise will drop.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Edit

 

[Rodrigo90]

I like the Fed idea,but may I give my own spin?

I keep Riddler's origin from the last page and his motive...BUT,I cut the story about him being buddies with Joker,Maroni and cut the story about him finding out about Harvey's coverup.

So after Batman has been wanted for murder. Here's my idea. With Bruce posing as Matches Malone,he is no longer Batman. Bruce is on the case of trying to takedown a new mob boss,Oswald Cobblepot. But things go wrong after a tipoff,and Penguin escapes. Bruce manages to escape,and fortunately convincing people that he was a cop. That same night,the GCPD is attacked and everybody is led to believe that it was Batman.
This prompts the FBI to announce their involvement with GCPD to track Batman down and send 5 of their best Agents to Gotham. However,one of the Agents is captured and killed by the Riddler and he assumes his identity,ensuring he knows exactly what the Feds have planned for Batman,as he has plans,AND for Bruce Wayne too...

 

[Rodrigo90]

When dealing with Batman and Penguin,Riddler assumes his disguise. A dark Green suit,his Psychosis jacket (Riddles and questions marks written across) and he changes his personality to the "Im much smarter than you" gimick.
To ensure his safety of identity,he wears a ginger wig, dark sunglasses, carries a cain and bears a fake limp. But as I said,he wants Batman to see past his facade and help understand his damaged mind.

Riddler forms an alliance with Penguin (As it was he who gave him the tipoff about Bruce) and Penguin supplies Riddler with weapons,men and more advanced items for his deathtraps,intended for the FBI, Gordon and Batman,though with Batman he doesnt really want to kill him,just got to give the impression.

Ofcourse Riddler knows who Batman is. So understandably Bruce believes its Coleman Reese,but soon he is at the center of suspected murder of Reese investigation led by Batman hater,Det Harvey Bullock.

 

[ALittlePush]

Much better, Rodrigo90.

I especially like the idea of the Riddler killing one of the agents then assuming his identity.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Much better, Rodrigo90.

I especially like the idea of the Riddler killing one of the agents then assuming his identity.

Thank you

 

[Jolly C.]

Rodrigo90 muuuuch better! I might want to make a suggestion for some things. First off Im trying to come up with a good concept for the riddlers outfit and such because Im drawing up a picture of his appearance and I read your story ideas and came across the jacket idea and I thought up an idea...why not just write the riddles in the shape of a question mark that way it combines the two aspects??? And I love the idea for Edward to kidnap the FBI agent however I thought it would be good to use the original agent in the story maybe have him in a deathtrap that batman has to solve to save him or something like that....anyways i like where your heads at with the story.

 

[Mr. Earle]

So the Riddler doesnt give riddles about the location of his next heist but he steals identinties?

 

[Rodrigo90]

I thought up an idea...why not just write the riddles in the shape of a question mark that way it combines the two aspects???.

I absolutely love that idea,good thinking, and thank you for the compliments.

Mr. Earle. Riddler does give messages to his next attack. I had the idea of him talking to Batman through the communicator in his mask,cause he manages to steal Wayne Enterprises technology and weapons for Penguin. He even puts poor old Lucius in a deathtrap!

He will do anything to help advance his plot,even assuming the identity of another. Its a contrast to Batman becoming Matches Malone. Bruce knows that he has 3 identities. The real him,the Playboy side to the public,and of course,Batman. He then realises the Riddler has 3 as well. The Riddler personality,the agent personality and the real Edward Nashton. This helps Batman get into Riddlers mind,which is exactly what he wants.

 

[Jolly C.]

The Riddler would have to give out some sort or riddle as to where he's attacking next because he has to give batman a fair chance of stopping him.

Thanks Rodrigo90 and no problem...I was wondering whether the Riddler would be wearing a coat similiar to the Jokers? And what else would be included in his costume? I was thinking he could gradually change his outfit throughout the story giving that sort of aspect that Edward Nashton/Nigma is becoming closer and closer to the Riddler persona.

 

[Rodrigo90]

My initial idea was to have Riddler leave riddles and,that were clues to his next crime,but also subtle hints to what he's really after, closure on the question thats driving him mad,basically "What is the matter with me?". But I think as the movie progresses,we see him become more and more obsessed with his Riddler persona,thus abandoning his identity as the Agent and forgetting his real motive, He loses sight of who he is and what he was really after in the place.

But Batman finally understands what it is crime spree has all been about. He has a mental disorder,obsessive compulsive disorder,but cant quite see or understand it. He was obsessed with that question that drove him mad. Obsessed with riddles and puzzles that has become his calling card,and clear evidence,he has now become obsessed with the Riddler identity.

So Riddlers facade,has now become his real personality and he has become a real danger,which he now no longer can control.

 

[Rodrigo90]

So Batman's only hope is that he has been paying full attention to Riddler's hints of trying to get into his mind. Cause eventually when Batman confronts Edward,its not simply knocking him out and saving the day. Batman wants to give Riddler the answer to his main riddle,before he went of the rails,in an attempt to bring him back to sanity and help him. Its a cry for help really,but the Riddler is still the evil genius and whos to say he will get properly cured or he even wants to get cured anymore,thus this will chillinglly erase his tragic side and he has now fully embraced his Riddler personality and has become the monster he didnt want to be,but his obsession has taken full control over.