The Dark Knight Rises Riddle Me This: The Riddler Characterization Thread

[regwec]

Nobody knows what Jack the Ripper looked like. He was never caught.

 

[rocco2216]

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/03/18/hans-zimmer-wants-the-riddler-for-batman-3/

Man at this point if the Riddler doesn't end up being the main villain I'll be shocked lol

 

[Rodrigo90]

But according to eye witnesses he dressed smart,but who knows if they are legit?

Some criminals have that obsession to look their best cause they consider their crimes the best. I think that would work well for The Riddler,especially since he is incredibly egotistical.

 

[regwec]

If he is so egotistical, he may well wish to draw attention to himself. A good way of doing this is to come up with a catchy psuedonym (The Riddler), a fimmick (riddles), and a flashy costume.

Or he could be so egotistical that he wears drab, washed-out colours, because he does not want anyone to notice him.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Exactly. The way Im writing it is at the start he isnt The Riddler,however he does wear suits,but ordinary. Then completely revamps himself.

Later he becomes The Riddler in these reasons.

Why a suit?
Cause its his favourite choice of clothing.

Why green?
Cause its his favourite color.

Why riddles and called The Riddler?
Cause its his favourite form of challenge.

Why commit crimes?
Because his intelligence grants him that permission.

Why wear a mask if people know who he is?
Because he is The Riddler,not Edward anymore and that adds depth to his appearance.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Also, Green=envy, and we all know Riddler is envious of the Dark Knight's intelligence and wants to prove himself better.

Additionally, for a different topic, how egotistical should the Riddler be? I've always found him to be a weird exception, I normally can't stand smug characters, but good old Eddie has always been portrayed and so damn impossibly smug that it bends right back onto itself and makes him so damn enjoyable.

 

[Victarion]

Maybe Riddler someone who believes that only the intelligent deserve to survive? He could have been pushed around, threatened, or had a loved one threatened by some underworld leader's muscle. That was the straw that broke the camel's back; it gives him a reason to lash out at Gotham.

 

[regwec]

That's a very interesting idea. He might see Batman as just another meat head to be humiliated, until it is proven otherwise.

There is some cross over with Jonathan Crane there, though.

 

[horrorwriter]

I still love the idea of The Riddler being a cop. And Gordon's whole family in perile because of it. A cop turned killer is always a cool concept. And think of all the imperfections suited in the Gotham Police force. They already have corrupt cops now.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

And Gordon's whole family in perile because of it.

Been done in TDK, wouldn't like to see it again or they might become DC's equivelant of Mary Jane. Love the Riddler cop idea though, as long as if he does kill its only once or twice, not in person and never done in a cruel or evil way. Riddler's always been much more of an intellectual, violence is pretty abhorrent to him and he's much more damaging in how he could blow the top off the Harvey Dent ruse and Batman's identity.

 

[horrorwriter]

Been done in TDK, wouldn't like to see it again or they might become DC's equivelant of Mary Jane. Love the Riddler cop idea though, as long as if he does kill its only once or twice, not in person and never done in a cruel or evil way. Riddler's always been much more of an intellectual, violence is pretty abhorrent to him and he's much more damaging in how he could blow the top off the Harvey Dent ruse and Batman's identity.

Very true, forgot about that.

It would be cool to see Edward as a cop even befriending Gordon. He works very close with Gordon going back to scenes of crime he was perhaps directly involved in. This would bring in Batman's Detective skills moreover as well. We would have a Batman film that was a Detective style film, with tons of dark action in it. And no car chase scenes.

The Riddler would be able to get away with the perfect crimes and leave people guessing for days, whereas The Joker didn't give a ****.

 

[breyfogle_rules]

Maybe Riddler someone who believes that only the intelligent deserve to survive? He could have been pushed around, threatened, or had a loved one threatened by some underworld leader's muscle. That was the straw that broke the camel's back; it gives him a reason to lash out at Gotham.

There's a lot to work with in this angle. I love it. Every one of the bat villains finds their character by perfectly exemplifying the height of a certain type of pathology that batman himself needs to resist in his own mind.

Ras was an eye for an eye vigilante. Crane abused and enjoyed his power to instill fear in others. Harveys dual life fractured and perverted his mind. Joker is a dark mirror to the ridiculousness of Batman's costumed theatrics.

Riddler could easily distinguish himself from all these villains with a philosophy of "the dumb must die". Batman would be torn since he is hated and hunted in the third movie by, essentially, the dumb people of gotham. The very people he is trying to defend. Riddler would be trapping swarms of civilians in situations where only their intelligence will let them live. Bats would have to defend the ignorant on principle. This could escalate and escalate escalate, bringing up a ton of questions bats will need to take a hard look at.

What are the answers to all these riddles that I have to solve to keep these people from dying? And why am I even doing this in the first place?

That is the ultimate riddle. Bats will wonder, 'Is what I'm doing as batman the right thing to do?" This has been the biggest weight on his mind throughout both films so far. In the process of taking on the riddler, he will finally cement in his mind why he does what he does. This will be the "completion of the story" Nolan mentioned in the LA times. Batman will finally find the answer to the question that has plagued him from the beginning: is Batman right for Gotham? How fitting that the enemy himself is the embodiment of ambiguity that batman needs to defeat.

So many questions!

???????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Doc Samson]

Been done in TDK, wouldn't like to see it again or they might become DC's equivelant of Mary Jane. Love the Riddler cop idea though, as long as if he does kill its only once or twice, not in person and never done in a cruel or evil way. Riddler's always been much more of an intellectual, violence is pretty abhorrent to him and he's much more damaging in how he could blow the top off the Harvey Dent ruse and Batman's identity.

This is the only way I can see the Riddler working. Placing Batman in impossible situations he has to figure out before times up is very similar to TDK, and making the Riddler violent is not being true to the character.

But as someone who's willing to show the public the "true" story about Harvey Dent unless Batman is willing to play does make him incredibly dangerous to Bruce's mission. I just have problems believing they can put him on the scale of Ras or the Joker in terms of danger and what's at stake. Those two were capable of destruction on a catastrophic level, Nigma's never struck me as that type...

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

This is the only way I can see the Riddler working. Placing Batman in impossible situations he has to figure out before times up is very similar to TDK, and making the Riddler violent is not being true to the character.

But as someone who's willing to show the public the "true" story about Harvey Dent unless Batman is willing to play does make him incredibly dangerous to Bruce's mission. I just have problems believing they can put him on the scale of Ras or the Joker in terms of danger and what's at stake. Those two were capable of destruction on a catastrophic level, Nigma's never struck me as that type...

Indeed, as someone who could give away the Dent ruse he could not only destroy quite a bit of city morale but also utterly discredit the Gotham PD. Additionally I'd love for him to be the only one to figure out Batman's identity. He could be the psychological threat while another villain blows **** up t:

Mind you, I could see Riddler setting up a terrorist attack he KNOWS Batman will stop but in doing so will give away key information about him (though the trick part would be a clever reveal)

Also, Riddler being in charge of the taskforce to catch Batman would mena he could not only show off awesome strategic skills but mean that he could still have quite a bit of scale as a villain with SWAT teams etc under his command to catch him.

 

[Doc Samson]

Indeed, as someone who could give away the Dent ruse he could not only destroy quite a bit of city morale but also utterly discredit the Gotham PD. Additionally I'd love for him to be the only one to figure out Batman's identity. He could be the psychological threat while another villain blows **** up t:

Mind you, I could see Riddler setting up a terrorist attack he KNOWS Batman will stop but in doing so will give away key information about him (though the trick part would be a clever reveal)

Also, Riddler being in charge of the taskforce to catch Batman would mena he could not only show off awesome strategic skills but mean that he could still have quite a bit of scale as a villain with SWAT teams etc under his command to catch him.

All this could be quite good, I'm just a bit worried about how dangerous they make The Riddler, which goes back to my issues with the character to begin with.

Although he may change things visually as far as the look of the villains go, Nolan's found success by sticking close to who these characters are and their motivations. Sure, Joker may not be permawhite, and Ras Al Ghul a mortal ninja of sorts who's indirectly the creator of Batman himself, but he nailed down who they were internally, which is why the other changes worked. While there are some exceptions, most of Batman's history has placed the Riddler as a secondary character and this is mostly due to his threat level.

Of course there are stories to the contrary, but by and large, the Riddler has been seen as more of a irritating failure than a significant danger to Batman or Gotham. I'm not saying this can't be changed while still staying close to his roots, but I will say I'd be extremely curious to see exactly how they go about it.

 

[ronny]

A guy with an inferiority complex can be very dangerous. Because they have an elevated need to prove themselves as being powerful.
That's Riddler's thing if you ask me. Sure, he's a loser. But he's got so much simmering resentment and bitterness that he is capable of exceptional cruelty.

 

[Doc Samson]

A guy with an inferiority complex can be very dangerous. Because they have an elevated need to prove themselves as being powerful.
That's Riddler's thing if you ask me. Sure, he's a loser. But he's got so much simmering resentment and bitterness that he is capable of exceptional cruelty.

I agree, and don't get me wrong, I do want him in the next movie, just not as the main villain. Each film so far has had two "Super" villains and a mob boss, so I would assume they would still have at least two theatrical bad guys, The Riddler could work very well in some capacity, I'm just not so sure how, which is why the guesswork is so fun

 

[Rodrigo90]

Heres what I like to see the Riddler as.

An intelligent and egotistical 'Citizens Advice Bureau' spokesman for the citizens of Gotham,who takes his job too seriously. His intelligence has gained public support and results for his cause,but he mainly does it to feed his ego by winning against City Hall and the Courts. So Edward is a nuisance to them.

Edward however is not squeaky clean as he makes out,and resorts to public slander against his opponents,even being the secret 'mastermind' behind violent protests,again feeding his ego,refering to people as 'pawns' to his cause.

However after 'challenging' City Hall and losing the battle to save peoples homes,including his home, job and family, thanks to corrupt Councilman Rupert Thorn, Edward cannot fathom his loss and decides to extract revenge on Thorn. But is stopped by Batman. Edward then becomes The Riddler,to challenge the corrupt,authoritative,intellectual and Batman,all who he hates.

 

[Rodrigo90]

His persona is based upon his personal hobby of completing puzzle games and answering difficult and intellectual questions. His particularly favourite form of challenge is riddles.

He wants to win against his challengers to prove to himself that he was smart against his battle with Thorn (Of course Thorn cheated in the case and thats how Edward lost,and Edward couldn't stop obsessing over the revelations). So Edward is really testing himself while doing his actions,but more so out of sadistic hate for his opponents.

 

[Jordacar]

This may be too juvenile, but I got this idea of some tough guy telling Edward to leave by saying "why don't you go finish your sudoku puzzle." That guy ends up dead later.

 

[breyfogle_rules]

If the act of making the Riddler a primary villain with a significant threat level sways a bit far from the comics then so be it. I welcome this change.

As far as other villains, I have a hard time seeing who else could fit in the Nolanverse. My immediate thoughts are Selina and Black Mask. However, Halle Berry's destruction of the character brand has left a bad taste in my mouth for Catwoman on screen. Also, I don't want to see a 90's industrial punk in hot topic goggles and creeper boots, which a lot of mockups seem to be pushing on these boards. Black Mask is great, but the facial look is actually quite similar to Harveys face in TDK, only black and full faced. Black mask also doesnt have a particularly compelling theme, villain-wise.

The more I think about it, I would LOVE to see a Nolanized Mad Monk. Maybe a cult-leader, cannibal-type incorporating elements of Deacon Blackfire from "The Cult" story arch.

 

[COMPO]

Very true, forgot about that.

It would be cool to see Edward as a cop even befriending Gordon. He works very close with Gordon going back to scenes of crime he was perhaps directly involved in. This would bring in Batman's Detective skills moreover as well. We would have a Batman film that was a Detective style film, with tons of dark action in it. And no car chase scenes.

The Riddler would be able to get away with the perfect crimes and leave people guessing for days, whereas The Joker didn't give a ****.

It would be cool if Riddler was a cop, but he's just impersonating a cop. He just a appears out of nowhere and starts going into the Batman investigation working close to Gordon but also whilst speaking to him, he's saying Riddles hidden within a conversation to give Gordon clues.

 

[Nightwing 52]

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/03/18/hans-zimmer-wants-the-riddler-for-batman-3/

That was a really nice interview...I'd love to see what he comes up with for the character.

 

[Victarion]

There's a lot to work with in this angle. I love it. Every one of the bat villains finds their character by perfectly exemplifying the height of a certain type of pathology that batman himself needs to resist in his own mind.

Ras was an eye for an eye vigilante. Crane abused and enjoyed his power to instill fear in others. Harveys dual life fractured and perverted his mind. Joker is a dark mirror to the ridiculousness of Batman's costumed theatrics.

Riddler could easily distinguish himself from all these villains with a philosophy of "the dumb must die". Batman would be torn since he is hated and hunted in the third movie by, essentially, the dumb people of gotham. The very people he is trying to defend. Riddler would be trapping swarms of civilians in situations where only their intelligence will let them live. Bats would have to defend the ignorant on principle. This could escalate and escalate escalate, bringing up a ton of questions bats will need to take a hard look at.

What are the answers to all these riddles that I have to solve to keep these people from dying? And why am I even doing this in the first place?

That is the ultimate riddle. Bats will wonder, 'Is what I'm doing as batman the right thing to do?" This has been the biggest weight on his mind throughout both films so far. In the process of taking on the riddler, he will finally cement in his mind why he does what he does. This will be the "completion of the story" Nolan mentioned in the LA times. Batman will finally find the answer to the question that has plagued him from the beginning: is Batman right for Gotham? How fitting that the enemy himself is the embodiment of ambiguity that batman needs to defeat.

So many questions!

???????????????????????????????????????????????????

That's a nice expansion on my idea. I like it. To add to it, maybe Nygma could have a couple of question marks cut into either the top of his hands or his palms? When I typed up my idea, I envisioned a sort of passive aggressive man, and it seems like something he could do at first: directing his anger toward himself before reaching the breaking point.

I think my angle could have Nygma as an authority figure; perhaps in an attempt to answer his questions as to how the idiots of the world survive, he joined the Feds or some other authority group. Then he learns about Gotham and the idea that Batman is a murderer. He learns of Batman, comes to respect him, and sets about to reveal Dent as the real killer.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Heres my real interpretation.
Edward poses a Police Detective. He threatens the life of Gordon,and is captured by him and Batman. Its revealed that Edward is a versatile criminal. He committs crimes,challenging the police to stop him,recently however he has been capturing criminals in his traps,using the excuse that his intelligence can make him do what he wants. Edward pleas with Agent Bullock that he can help catch Batman,Bullock who is obsessed with catching Batmanm releases Edward,but realises he has been tricked. He is not seen or heard for quite some time. But he has a master plan coming up,as all villains should.