Riots in Missouri - Part 1

[Tempest]

If shooting was the only/best option, at least stand up to your decision and not let the officer mistreat the situation afterwards, delete his entire digital [online] history, and basically hide his identity and self away for weeks on end.

If the officer was in danger, why shouldn't he be allowed to protect himself, both during and after the shooting?

 

[Kelly]

Come on, of course it's relevant. It undermines the idea that he was in some life-threatening altercation. There is certainly enough discrepancy in the eyewitness accounts. This just casts further doubt.

This was the type of evidence that turned the Zimmerman trial. The wounds on the back of his head (and the way his lawyer argued them/the way the prosecutor bungled them) basically ensured that he walked.

BECAUSE the gun had his blood on it, he had gunpowder residue on his hand...THAT, is the evidence that moves toward life-threatening altercation, not his face. It moved FAR BEYOND that....in a court of law, THOSE are the things that show relevance.

I understand where you are coming from, but as far as evidence, the gun and his hand are far stronger evidence, than lack of abrasions to the face.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If the officer was in danger, why shouldn't he be allowed to protect himself, both during and after the shooting?

The problem is normal citizens are afforded such things. Why? Because it could lead to the erasing of evidence and the ability to construct a story.

 

[Breogan]

Brown already got justice. These people don't care anything about Brown.

True.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I'm sorry, but if you attack a cop, you don't get to complain if you get shot. Especially if you were going for his gun, as the evidence seems to suggest.

Ideally he should have used nonlethal force, but you're just asking for it at that point.

 

[Schlosser85]

I'm sorry, but if you attack a cop, you don't get to complain if you get shot.

Exactly what I've been saying all along. They're basically demanding Wilson's head for what? Defending himself?

 

[antsman41]

If the officer was in danger, why shouldn't he be allowed to protect himself, both during and after the shooting?

Physical safety is one thing, but identity protection was ridiculous. He wasn't underage, therefore his name should have been accountable the moment after the incident. He wears a badge, therefore his name should never have been hidden out of common dignity.

It's pathetic, if I had to shoot someone out of "protection"; my name would be everywhere. Hell, if someone gets a speeding ticket... your name gets posted in the newspaper.

They purposefully hid his name and lied about he situation to protect themselves in doing something wrong. If he/the police were fully in the right they wouldn't have had to hide behind anything, but they did.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

BECAUSE the gun had his blood on it, he had gunpowder residue on his hand...THAT, is the evidence that moves toward life-threatening altercation, not his face. It moved FAR BEYOND that....in a court of law, THOSE are the things that show relevance.

I understand where you are coming from, but as far as evidence, the gun and his hand are far stronger evidence, than lack of abrasions to the face.

I understand your point. But that reasoning, especially for someone's who job is to handle such situations, bothers me to no end. That part was long over by the time he shot Brown.

 

[KalMart]

Come on, of course it's relevant. It undermines the idea that he was in some life-threatening altercation. There is certainly enough discrepancy in the eyewitness accounts. This just casts further doubt.

This was the type of evidence that turned the Zimmerman trial. The wounds on the back of his head (and the way his lawyer argued them/the way the prosecutor bungled them) basically ensured that he walked.

Zimmerman walked because the prosecution was going for a calculated murder charge, when in reality is was negligent manslaughter. Certainly not right and incredibly stupid on Zimmerman's part, but not murder. The evidence supported that, but out of outrage they wanted to charge him for 'hunting down' a black youth with the intention of ending his life. We knew it was join got end up that way while the trial was going on. But anyway….

I hope at last these riots stop soon and no-one's hurt.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Ya can't blame the Ferguson police, they are not in charge.

Looks to me like the police for a time were more involved in keeping the firefighters safe, which is procedure, and they are now starting to move forward to find out where the gunfire is coming from...

Thunder said that the national guard would only be called in if the police didn't feel they could contain it.

I think whoever is in charge of getting the National Guard in, should have done so already. The police seem to have lost control.

The truth is, Wilson had time and probably evidence to get his story straight. If it was a normal citizen, he wouldn't have been given those privileges.

Yeah, that seemed like a major advantage in Wilson's case. Him not filing out a report immediately after the shooting, was really weird too.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Exactly what I've been saying all along. They're basically demanding Wilson's head for what? Defending himself?

So every attack can end with someone being shot dead? It is amazing then that all people who run or attack a police officer aren't killed.

 

[antsman41]

Exactly what I've been saying all along. They're basically demanding Wilson's head for what? Defending himself?

No. As again, the defensive action may not have been totally 'wrong'. But, they way they went about covering up the situation, miss-leading the case, and hiding/protecting Wilson more than any other given citizen let alone cop was wrong. That's the only thing other's should be mad about.

Plus, the police continually tried to put themselves on a pedestal after the fact and treated their common man like fools and punks.

 

[Breogan]

It's going to be awhile...their system is crashing, I would assume because of the amount of traffic that their system just wasn't ready for...

What's funny the regular media which spoon fed a story to the masses isn't uploading it.
They already got the exact results and story they wanted, and now can film Ferguson burn while their ratings shoot up!

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Exactly what I've been saying all along. They're basically demanding Wilson's head for what? Defending himself?

People wanted a trial, where hopefully the evidence and testimonies would play out in the light of day.

It's not so much that it's his head on a platter, but that he's seemingly given a winning hand just because he wears a badge. Which all plays into the massive mistrust and fears about the police force.

 

[antsman41]

People wanted a trial, where hopefully the evidence and testimonies would play out in the light of day.

It's not so much that it's his head on a platter, but that he's seemingly given a winning hand just because he wears a badge. Which all plays into the massive mistrust and fears about the police force.

This.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A trial would have allowed for cross examination and such. Though not sure how anyone could trust this DA.

 

[Tempest]

I understand your point. But that reasoning, especially for someone's who job is to handle such situations, bothers me to no end. That part was long over by the time he shot Brown.

So what would you have done? Someone attacks you, reaches for your weapon, and it's fired.

Then what would you do?

 

[Kelly]

What's funny the regular media which spoon fed a story to the masses isn't uploading it.
They already got the exact results and story they wanted, and now can film Ferguson burn while their ratings shoot up!

haha, no one is uploading it...

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

What's funny the regular media which spoon fed a story to the masses isn't uploading it.
The got the exact results and story they wanted and now can film it all while their ratings shoot up!

The media?

Because the writing was on the walls for months. The fix seemed to be in on this for a long time.

I have to mention again...I have no idea what the hell they were thinking releasing the decision at 9 PM at night, instead of...maybe earlier in the daytime, when the sun is up.

Maybe not declaring a state of emergency, maybe plugging the leaks that as well as the declaration of a state of emergency may have influenced record sales of guns in Missouri.

And now there are people in the riots that appear to be firing guns.

The police, the state, the prosecutor's office...all of this seems like it was the perfect storm for something like this to go down. And the saddest thing is that I believe the state could have done things differently to try and subvert the impending chaos, if only they had done things differently. I mean, just announcing this at 9PM alone seems to have been a stupid move.

 

[Tempest]

A trial would have allowed for cross examination and such. Though not sure how anyone could trust this DA.

You don't understand. There would have been a pretrial hearing where the case could have been dismissed by the judge. The DA chose to take it to the grand jury, where ALL the evidence, with no information from the defense, could be heard by the grand jury.

It would not have gone immediately to trial.

There is a distinct possibility that this case would have been dismissed by any judge. By allowing a group of peers to review the case, there was a better chance of this case going to trial.

 

[KalMart]

So every attack can end with someone being shot dead? It is amazing then that all people who run or attack a police officer aren't killed.

Can every cop who's attacked tell that the altercation won't be life- or serious injury-threatening? What was he being attacked with, a noodle?

Although…I do feel that there needs to be some better stress/combat training and conditioning amongst police. If anything, to help the mindset under extreme duress to help not rushing to deadly action when it could possibly be avoided. Things go haywire when you're in a fight.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So what would you have done? Someone attacks you, reaches for your weapon, and it's fired.

Then what would you do?

Depends on what they do. It is not like Wilson proceeded to shoot Brown right then and there. At some point Brown began to flea. And Wilson is not some normal citizen, he is a cop.

On CNN they just said that Wilson testified to getting into an argument with Brown, where they were both cussing at one another. Does that sound like proper cop behavior to anyone?

 

[Breogan]

I have to mention again...I have no idea what the hell they were thinking releasing the decision at 9 PM at night, instead of...maybe earlier in the daytime, when the sun is up.

It's already been explained to you, during the day kids are going to and from school. commuters are going to and from work.
We saw what happened to Reginald Denny who got caught in his commute during working hours.
They waited for regular working people and their kids to be home safe! Not out there in harms way.

 

[SuperJediHero]

I have LOST ALL FAITH in these protests being peaceful, worried and concerned for many cities including my own! *SIGH*

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Can every cop who's attacked tell that the altercation won't be life- or serious injury-threatening? What was he being attacked with, a noodle?

Although…I do feel that there needs to be some better stress/combat training and conditioning amongst police. If anything, to help the mindset under extreme duress so the they do not rush to deadly action when it could possibly be avoided. Things go haywire when you're in a fight.

Yeah, there seems the need for better training.

All I ever seem to hear is that the police officers are always scared for their own lives. Even when there's no reason to be, they seem to be jumpy. The video of that guy who got shot by a police officer for reaching for his driver's license after the cop asked for his license was a good example. The officer explained how he was frightened for life all because the man made a quick movement.

So, better training and preparing police officers better for situations seems like something that should be invested in.

I know it was suggested that the NYPD do more for training, right after Eric Garner was choked to death. And, oddly enough, sleeper holds are against NYPD rules for officers.