Riots in Missouri - Part 1

[summerteeth]

No, there are whites in poor areas and they're still less likely to stopped and searched.

I would like to see the stats on that. The NYC thing (which I am aware of)could have to do with specific neighborhoods and streets where there are higher rates of crime, a city is a very large place. It would be interesting to take a neighborhood and then look at the rates of arrests. As far as sentencing goes (Again which I'm aware of), I think there is more leniency given if you have a supportive family, are showing that you are being productive i.e. have a good job or going to school. Unfortunately, you have higher rates of unemployment among African Americans and lower rates of higher educational attainment.

As far as this Davis guy. I would not be surprised if both were in the wrong. If he punched the cop and then they used excessive force on him which may be why they gave him a lesser charge. Similar to what happened to a family member of mine. He had drugs, was high while driving can't remember if it was coke or what, resisted arrest and they beat him pretty bad, cracked his skull with the baton, has vision problems resulting from the beating to this day. They dropped the charges if he agreed not to pursue the excessive use of force.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I would like to see the stats on that. The NYC thing (which I am aware of)could have to do with specific neighborhoods and streets where there are higher rates of crime, a city is a very large place. It would be interesting to take a neighborhood and then look at the rates of arrests. As far as sentencing goes (Again which I'm aware of), I think there is more leniency given if you have a supportive family, are showing that you are being productive i.e. have a good job or going to school. Unfortunately, you have higher rates of unemployment among African Americans and lower rates of higher educational attainment.

As far as this Davis guy. I would not be surprised if both were in the wrong. If he punched the cop and then they used excessive force on him which may be why they gave him a lesser charge. Similar to what happened to a family member of mine. He had drugs, was high while driving can't remember if it was coke or what, resisted arrest and they beat him pretty bad, cracked his skull with the baton, has vision problems resulting from the beating to this day. They dropped the charges if he agreed not to pursue the excessive use of force.

He was in the wrong. Lets see, they arrested him because they were too stupid to run his name correctly, held him to be spiteful, wouldn't give him anything to sleep on, they then beat him up, accused him off bleeding on their uniforms and only then did they make up a charge he hit a cop.

Seriously, you are actually going to go with this argument?

 

[The Shape]

This whole thing has just gotten so out of hand, and the media (along with some of the townspeople/police) are fueling the fire and seemingly trying to create a race war.

Listen, if this cop acted wrongly and essentially murdered this man without reason, then it is what it is and it's an awful tragedy. But it's still somewhat of an isolated incident. If people want to bash and harrass the Ferguson police until justice is served, that's fine. Protesting, rioting, and looting on a nightly basis, however, does not exactlly help the situation and only seems to be making things worse. There wouldn't be this heavy police presence if everyone would stand down and accept that none of this will bring Brown back from the dead or "make things right". Baiting the police or becoming a criminal yourself is not fighting for justice.

It's hard for me to actually "choose a side" in this debate because the actual issue at hand -- whether this man was rightfully or wrongfully killed, and whether the Ferguson PD is corrupt or not -- has been lost among the madness and biased opions that are being tossed around. It's also hard not to wonder what this situation would look like if it was a white man who was gunned down by a black officer.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I will never get behind the idea that people should stop protesting. If you feel something is worth protesting, protest. If others do wrong, it isn't the protestors fault.

 

[X Knight]

nothing wrong with protesting. nothing wrong with demanding justice.

but it's not an excuse to riot, loot, and incite more violence and hatred.

 

[The Shape]

I will never get behind the idea that people should stop protesting. If you feel something is worth protesting, protest. If others do wrong, it isn't the protestors fault.

So is the only true way to fight for a wrong that needs to be righted...protesting? Millions of people do wrong on a daily basis. Is every issue worth protesting on a nightly basis (and not always in a completely peaceful manner) or just this one because race is involved?

What do you define as "worth protesting" not not worth protesting? Where is the line drawn? Going by your logic, shouldn't there be daily protests and widespread media coverage for every death at the hands of a police officer that some might deem to be "wrongful" and not just this one?

Again, I'm not arguing that the police are right or wrong in terms of how they've handled this situation. But at this point, it seems as if the protesting, crowds, riots, and looting are only fueling the fire and adding to the problem.

 

[The Shape]

nothing wrong with protesting. nothing wrong with demanding justice.

but it's not an excuse to riot, loot, and incite more violence and hatred.

Right you are.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There is a difference between those that peacefully protest and those that show up to look and riot. I also find it odd that people are avoiding that the cops continue to point there weapons at peaceful protestors without any provocation.

So is the only true way to fight for a wrong that needs to be righted...protesting? Millions of people do wrong on a daily basis. Is every issue worth protesting on a nightly basis (and not always in a completely peaceful manner) or just this one because race is involved?

What do you define as "worth protesting" not not worth protesting? Where is the line drawn? Going by your logic, shouldn't there be daily protests and widespread media coverage for every death at the hands of a police officer that some might deem to be "wrongful" and not just this one?

Again, I'm not arguing that the police are right or wrong in terms of how they've handled this situation. But at this point, it seems as if the protesting, crowds, riots, and looting are only fueling the fire and adding to the problem.

I do not define what is worth protesting. It is up to each and every individual to make that decision. I don't live in Ferguson. I can't possibly understand why these people feel the way they do, and I don't have the hubris to act like I do.

The problem I have with telling people not to protest, it isn't worth it, is that is exactly what we see with all issues. Civil Rights wasn't worth it according to many. Women's Suffrage wasn't worth it. The blatant criminal activity on Wall Street isn't worth it. Heck, the creation of the United States was met with calls that it wasn't worth it.

 

[summerteeth]

He was in the wrong. Lets see, they arrested him because they were too stupid to run his name correctly, held him to be spiteful, wouldn't give him anything to sleep on, they then beat him up, accused him off bleeding on their uniforms and only then did they make up a charge he hit a cop.

Seriously, you are actually going to go with this argument?

I'm only saying he was in the wrong because he admitted he was in the wrong when he pled guilty...I'm saying there is probably a reason why he pled guilty to lesser charges.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I would like to see the stats on that. The NYC thing could have to do with specific neighborhoods and streets where there are higher rates of crime, a city is a very large place. It would be interesting to take a neighborhood and then look at the rates of arrests. As far as sentencing goes, I think there is more leniency given if you have a supportive family, are showing that you are being productive i.e. have a good job or going to school. Unfortunately, you have higher rates of unemployment among African Americans and lower rates of higher educational attainment.
.

Let me post that statistic again.

"When whites were stopped, only 8% were frisked. When blacks and Latinos are stopped 85% were frisked according to information provided by the NYPD."

Now consider this statistic.

The likelihood a stop of an African American New Yorker yielded a weapon was half that of white New Yorkers stopped. The NYPD uncovered a weapon in one out every 49 stops of white New Yorkers. By contrast, it took the Department 71 stops of Latinos and 93 stops of African Americans to find a weapon.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities/

So again, statistics prove the NYPD have more reason to be suspicious of whites yet they search whites only 8 percent of the time and blacks/Latinos 85% of the time.

This is clearly racism. Blacks and Latinos are racially profiled for crimes whites are more likely to commit.

We're not talking a slight difference either.

Blacks and Latinos are NINE times more likely to be stopped. On the rare occasion whites are stopped they are rarely searched but blacks and Latinos are searched 85% of the time.

This is racial profiling for no reason other than racial prejudice.

Clearly these police don't care about stopping the flow of contraband that whites are MORE likely to carry. They rather fill their arrest quotas with dark people so they stop and search dark people. It has nothing to do with who's more likely to be guilty.

 

[summerteeth]

Let me post that statistic again.

"When whites were stopped, only 8% were frisked. When blacks and Latinos are stopped 85% were frisked according to information provided by the NYPD."

Now consider this statistic.



http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities/

So again, statistics prove the NYPD have more reason to be suspicious of whites yet they search whites only 8 percent of the time and blacks/Latinos 85% of the time.

This is clearly racism. Blacks and Latinos are racially profiled for crimes whites are more likely to commit.

We're not talking a slight difference either.

Blacks and Latinos are NINE times more likely to be stopped. On the rare occasion whites are stopped they are rarely searched but blacks and Latinos are searched 85% of the time.

This is racial profiling for no reason other than racial prejudice.

Clearly these police don't care about stopping the flow of contraband that whites are MORE likely to carry. They rather fill their arrest quotas with dark people so they stop and search dark people. It has nothing to do with who's more likely to be guilty.

You are ignoring the fact that they could conduct more searches in more low income areas where there are high rates of crime where African Americans or Latinos are the majority. It could just be more about certain locations than race.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm only saying he was in the wrong because he admitted he was in the wrong when he pled guilty...I'm saying there is probably a reason why he pled guilty to lesser charges.

And these lesser charges are what? I didn't see them in either article, but perhaps I missed them. I just skimmed them again, and didn't find them. But if he plead guilty to bleeding on the cops uniforms, well he did.

What is crazy here are all the wrongs on the cops side. How the cops "lost" the tape, how the tape would have been useless anyways because of the frame rate, how the cops admittedly lied, how the cops brought him in under false pretenses, how the cops only charge him with assault on an officer after he filed his civil suit, how the cops charged a man they admittedly beaten for whatever reason with bleeding on their uniforms, how the cops were conveniently allowed to file their own non-fatal use-of-force reports, and how those reports were nearly impossible to find.

Then there was the judge who decided that being given a concussion and being charged with complete bull isn't enough of a rights violation. Adding ridiculous insult to ridiculous injury.

 

[summerteeth]

And these lesser charges are what? I didn't see them in either article, but perhaps I missed them. I just skimmed them again, and didn't find them. But if he plead guilty to bleeding on the cops uniforms, well he did.

What is crazy here are all the wrongs on the cops side. How the cops "lost" the tape, how the tape would have been useless anyways because of the frame rate, how the cops admittedly lied, how the cops brought him in under false pretenses, how the cops only charge him with assault on an officer after he filed his civil suit, how the cops charged a man they admittedly beaten for whatever reason with bleeding on their uniforms, how the cops were conveniently allowed to file their own non-fatal use-of-force reports, and how those reports were nearly impossible to find.

Then there was the judge who decided that being given a concussion and being charged with complete bull isn't enough of a rights violation. Adding ridiculous insult to ridiculous injury.

Well what were the lesser charges? we don't know. They conveniently leave that out. I don't think we are getting the whole picture here.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You are ignoring the fact that they could conduct more searches in more low income areas where there are high rates of crime where African Americans or Latinos are the majority. It could just be more about certain locations than race.

How do you explain this?

In 72 out of 77 precincts, black and Latino New Yorkers accounted for more than 50 percent of stops, and in 34 precincts they accounted for more than 90 percent of stops. In six of the 10 precincts with the lowest black and Latino populations (such as the 6th Precinct in Greenwich Village), blacks and Latinos accounted for more than 70 percent of stops.

http://www.nyclu.org/news/new-nyclu...s-of-bloomberg-administrations-signature-publ

 

[Anita18]

There is a difference between those that peacefully protest and those that show up to look and riot. I also find it odd that people are avoiding that the cops continue to point there weapons at peaceful protestors without any provocation.

That is what I (and most of my friends in real life and in Twitter) are concerned about. It's only here that people are arguing about the police action possibly being justified.

Hint: no it isn't. Even soldiers fighting deadly insurgents in the Middle East are taught NOT to point their guns at civilians unless they mean to shoot the person. Soldiers are taught that showing up armed can escalate a situation by itself.

What the cops are doing is against every military code on Escalation of Force.

 

[SuperT]

Reading from people I follow down in Ferguson that pparently the police went into a local church and took supplies (food, water etc.) that the church was distributing to people in the area.

What the hell?!

 

[summerteeth]

How do you explain this?



http://www.nyclu.org/news/new-nyclu...s-of-bloomberg-administrations-signature-publ

Thank you, that's what I was looking for. Yeah, that's why (for many reasons) stop and frisk had to go. Still doesn't prove widespread racism, one city, one bad policy does not equal institutionalized racism.

 

[Schlosser85]

Reading from people I follow down in Ferguson that pparently the police went into a local church and took supplies (food, water etc.) that the church was distributing to people in the area.

What the hell?!

That's just behaving like some occupying army or something.

 

[SuperT]

Correction - it was a school building next to the church that some of the church members were using as a refuge to give out first aid supplies to people in the area. Apparently, the cops thought they were giving out weapons - really?

 

[Anita18]

Correction - it was a school building next to the church that some of the church members were using as a refuge to give out first aid supplies to people in the area. Apparently, the cops thought they were giving out weapons - really?

At least a SWAT team didn't show up with guns raised.

My standards now are THAT low!

 

[SuperT]

Looks like, thankfully nothing was actually taken from the building or the helpers in the end. Sounds like an intimidation move.

 

[Marvolo]

Exiled Tibetan Monks Join Ferguson Protestors To Support Justice For Mike Brown

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5688611?utm_hp_ref=tw

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Thank you, that's what I was looking for. Yeah, that's why (for many reasons) stop and frisk had to go. Still doesn't prove widespread racism, one city, one bad policy does not equal institutionalized racism.

So you think racial profiling is isolated to NYC?

 

[Breogan]

https://***********/AsymmetricUSA/status/501822063464546304

Deploying a ****ing PMC now? Jesus Christ. The abuse is sickening.

Wow if this is true, it is beyond creepy?
Although who is "deploying" them? By "the abuse" are you implying it's the police?

In a follow up twit they say - https://***********/AsymmetricUSA/status/502036357997686784

To clarify we are not protecting state, law enforcement or those exercising their right to assemble. Escort detail augment for individual.

"Escort detail augment for individual."
Someone with allot of cache is trying to get in and/or safely out of Dodge.


Coincidence? - Eric Holder, Obama's man who called in the third autopsy is in to oversee the Grand Jury proceedings lands today?

As highest judge in the land, he has access to all the evidence...

Spoiler

...that is what we have not seen yet, ballistics, all medical autopsies, the Cops statement and all eye witness statements on either "side" including those corroborating the cops story, and whatever more federal investigators have gathered, etc...

...and he probably knows the outcome here already, might be he's expecting the worst?

Again I pray for this city, and by extension every other one that will be affected by the verdicts coming.

 

[summerteeth]

So you think racial profiling is isolated to NYC?

No, not necessarily, but that stop and frisk may have given cops free reign to do so which resulted in higher rates of profiling. That said I think people are profiled all the time based on their behavior and dress as well not all of it is race. I don't think that is a bad thing.