The Dark Knight Rises Robin

[Superman4ever!]

paul Dini is gonna be working on this season of the Batman, so its gonna Be great, robin's Introduction should be awesome!!

 

[StorminNorman]

IMO B:TAS went down when they introduced Tim Drake as Robin. The older Dick Grayson was IMO the far superior character.

That being said I favor there being a very young Robin when he is finally introduced into the movie (not until the 4th movie at the least)...

 

[Superman4ever!]

IMO B:TAS went down when they introduced Tim Drake as Robin. The older Dick Grayson was IMO the far superior character.

That being said I favor there being a very young Robin when he is finally introduced into the movie (not until the 4th movie at the least)...

ive always Like dick Grayson as Robin the most as well, but Tim drake as robin is not that bad!t:

 

[StorminNorman]

He just came off campy and annoying -what I hate in my Robin.

 

[Superman4ever!]

how was tim drake Robin corny and annoying? he was more of a street kid, and was more tough at ayounger age, i rember the ep when he sid in one ep, he found a batarang" Chasing some bangers out in the hood".lol he really said that! in the ep when bats Found him.

 

[StorminNorman]

The episode in which Tim Drake was established was okay - but after that his character always came off annyoing and corny and really clashed with the darker feeling of the show in general.

 

[trustyside-kick]

I liked Tim Drake in TNBAS; especially his costume.

 

[agentdawes]

Im a lot happier not to have Robin and Catwoman onboard part 2 and 3.

 

[Superman4ever!]

your opinion, id love to have robin, in dark night, and the next, one, nolan would do it well

 

[StorminNorman]

I think Nolan could pull it off, however would he want to?

I dont think he is a fan of the character - and I know that Christian Bale doesn't like Robin.

 

[Mr. Superhero]

Robin will never be used... After seeing Batman Begins, I know how Nolan's mind works, and where he's taking this... and I can confirm, that it's a long, long way away from that ponsey little bird...

 

[StorminNorman]

Robin will never be used... After seeing Batman Begins, I know how Nolan's mind works, and where he's taking this... and I can confirm, that it's a long, long way away from that ponsey little bird...

The Real Face Of Mr. Superhero...?

 

[Mr. Superhero]

He's far too good looking...

 

[StorminNorman]

Martian Manhunter is teh Sexy!

 

[Superman4ever!]

Robin will never be used... After seeing Batman Begins, I know how Nolan's mind works, and where he's taking this... and I can confirm, that it's a long, long way away from that ponsey little bird...

Robin will used in Nolan's Film, hes cool like that.lol

 

[Mr. Vice]

Robin will used in Nolan's Film, hes cool like that.lol

Robin's COOL!? WTF!? LOL!!!

 

[Savage]

Well Tim Drake's Robin is...The other two...no matter what they did, there's no excuse for that costume.

 

[ad101867]

ROBIN THE BOY BLUNDER . . . ?

Kid partner. Take a look at this summary of Robin(Dick Grayson)'s origin from Wikipedia:

"Richard John 'Dick' Grayson was an eight-year-old circus acrobat, the youngest of a family act called the 'Flying Graysons'. A gangster named Boss Zucco (loosely based on actor Edward G. Robinson's Little Caesar character) had been extorting money from the circus and killed Grayson's parents, John and Mary, by sabotaging their trapeze equipment as a warning against defiance. The Batman investigated the crime and, as his alter ego millionaire Bruce Wayne, had Dick put under his custody as a legal ward (later adopting him as his son). Batman rigorously trained the boy, teaching him physical, fighting and detective skills."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_%28comics%29

That entire scenario is not only believable but, if well-written, can be a very moving storyline. The question is: Over what period of time does Bruce train the kid? It becomes absolutely absurd if Grayson while still a kid joins Batman in actual confrontations with criminals. This is an inherently and unavoidably stupid idea. It's not believable that a punk could outmatch serious criminals, nor that a responsible and sharp-minded adult like Bruce Wayne would be so dumb and careless as to put a kid in harm's way. So, if there's some version of Robin in a film series intended to feel realistic, then that "Robin" cannot be a kid.

Plausibility conditions. The idea of Batman training another crimefighter is believable and could be made to work within the following parameters. (1) "Robin" can't be under-age for dangerous situations. (2) He can't be the type of sidekick who is annoying to the audience or who steals the spotlight from Batman. Multiple heroes can work in a story (e.g., the X-Men), but the Bat himself should command the most attention and be the story's focal point. (3) "Robin" can't wear a gaudy costume that is the opposite of stealth; it should be all-black or a combination of gray and black for operating in the shadows and at night, and of course augmented with armour. (Without "birdlike" colours, this may require a name-change from "Robin"; personally I'd prefer he immediately become Nightwing - or even a new Batman if Bruce retires at that point.)

Possible "Robinesque" scenarios. (1) A youthful holdover from the League of Shadows tracks Bruce down, and the Bat takes the place of Ra's as a trainer in the kid's life. Kid goes on to be Batman's partner or else strike out on his own - or perhaps even decides to become a villain.

(2) A troubled teen more in the Dick Grayson mold, or maybe a hybrid of Grayson/Jason Todd/Tim Drake, is encountered in the streets by Batman, who feels duty-bound to help the kid out somehow. But the kid would not become an overnight crimefighter. Instead he may be a computer nerd or something and helps Bruce out on the tech end of things, more like Oracle. Or if he's a street kid perhaps he could help Batman by scouting out some neighbourhoods (not engaging any thugs, though) for info. Only if the screenwriter establishes the character's street-smarts would it become plausible that Batman would use him as a mobile informant.

(3) Maybe in a future installment, Batman has aged and is close to retirement. Then he's thinking about the future of Gotham and realizes he needs to train someone to take his place. The future Batman could be the kid from Scenario (1) or (2), or with a first appearance in this particular installment. This could be more along the lines of a Dark Knight Returns plotline.

If the plot involves Batman nearing retirement, then his relationship to the new crimefighter could be along the lines of father-and-son. If Batman is younger and trains somebody roughly ten years his junior, then an "big brother" approach would work better.

Nolan's Bat-world. Here's another Wikipedia comment on Robin's origin:

"Early Batman stories frequently use the grim tone of the film noir and gothic horror films of the day, with Batman showing little remorse over killing or maiming criminals.
"This interpretation of Batman softens in Detective Comics #38 in 1940. Dick Grayson/Robin (named after Robin Hood) is introduced based on Finger's suggestion to Kane that Batman needed a 'Watson'. Kane, partly inspired by the Junior character from Dick Tracy, made the sidekick a young boy. . . . In Batman #7, (1941) Batman is made an honorary member of Gotham City's police department, moving him even farther from his dark, vigilante roots. Batman's tone continues to stay light for the next several decades."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman

So in other words the character of Robin was intended to lighten the mood of the Bat-mythos. Christopher Nolan, of course, has gone the dark and gritty route for this new film series, and critics, Bat-fans, and general movie-goers have all really taken to it. If there's some new version of Robin to show up in a Nolan Bat-film, the character has to be revamped in such a way as to fit into the "dark and gritty" atmosphere of this series. If he does not, he won't work. And if Watson can avoid dumbing down Sherlock Holmes stories, then a vigilante-trainee doesn't have to dumb down Batman stories.


Now, assuming Nolan only does three films, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to include Robin or a Robin-type character. Given limited time for a trilogy's story arc, it makes more sense to limit the number of characters and not do anything to distract our attention from Batman's own evolution. I agree with people who have said that maybe somewhere in Nolan's third installment a kid could be introduced (or the kid from Begins reintroduced and revealed as Grayson) whom the audience knows will one day become a crimefighter in his own right, but who never actually sees any crime-busting action in that film. My own Robin-type scenarios assume that Batman is at least 10 or more years older than he is right now in Nolan's series.

Now given that Nolan has already established the idea of "escalation," the idea of Batman training a new crimefighter makes a certain kind of sense - if it's done at the right time and in the right way. It seems believable to me that not only would criminals become more vicious and creative to match Batman's mean and unorthodox ways, but also that the Bat would inspire the rise of new crimefighters.

In a context of "escalation," Batman might even find he needs some backup, that he can't go it alone, and thus the idea of a trainee makes even more sense. So here's a fourth scenario (which may involve an older Batman wondering how he can cope with the expanding criminal element): What if escalation gets to the point where Batman comes up with the idea of his own "League of Shadows," perhaps simply called "the Batmen" or "League of the Bat"? Some plot strands from The Dark Knight Returns could be incorporated here.

Since Nolan is also emphasizing realism (thank goodness), the "Robin-type" character (or multiple trainees) would have to stay away from direct engagement with criminals until his training and maturity have actually made him ready for it. However, it's also believable that an over-eager kid would perhaps sneak around and insert himself into the action against Batman's orders. In that case there ought to be realistic consequences: perhaps the kid has the absolute crap scared out of him (maybe he gets beat to a pulp and nearly killed by the likes of a Joker or a Black Mask). Bats rescues him and then the kid's too scared to disobey orders ever again. This is something that would believably happen to a kid trying to take on serious criminals, and in that kind of story the kid wouldn't be annoying, but would learn precisely the lesson the audience wants him to learn.

Conclusion. I'm not opposed to the bare idea of Batman training another vigilante. In an escalation scenario it might even be more believable than not training a new crimefighter (or more than one). But the traditional Robin's age and gaudy costume have got to be changed in order to avoid ending up with a ridiculous character in a "serious" live-action production.

 

[7Hells]

........

 

[deathfromabove]

although i respect the history of the young sidekick in the superhero genre i dont think there is any satisfying way to translate that into a live action batman movie.

although if anyone could do it well it would be nolan. but since he has expressed his distaste for robin and bale is also opposed i think its a moot point.

personally i like batman sans sidekick.

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

ROBIN THE BOY BLUNDER . . . ?

Kid partner. Take a look at this summary of Robin(Dick Grayson)'s origin from Wikipedia:

"Richard John 'Dick' Grayson was an eight-year-old circus acrobat, the youngest of a family act called the 'Flying Graysons'. A gangster named Boss Zucco (loosely based on actor Edward G. Robinson's Little Caesar character) had been extorting money from the circus and killed Grayson's parents, John and Mary, by sabotaging their trapeze equipment as a warning against defiance. The Batman investigated the crime and, as his alter ego millionaire Bruce Wayne, had Dick put under his custody as a legal ward (later adopting him as his son). Batman rigorously trained the boy, teaching him physical, fighting and detective skills."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_%28comics%29

That entire scenario is not only believable but, if well-written, can be a very moving storyline. The question is: Over what period of time does Bruce train the kid? It becomes absolutely absurd if Grayson while still a kid joins Batman in actual confrontations with criminals. This is an inherently and unavoidably stupid idea. It's not believable that a punk could outmatch serious criminals, nor that a responsible and sharp-minded adult like Bruce Wayne would be so dumb and careless as to put a kid in harm's way. So, if there's some version of Robin in a film series intended to feel realistic, then that "Robin" cannot be a kid.

Plausibility conditions. The idea of Batman training another crimefighter is believable and could be made to work within the following parameters. (1) "Robin" can't be under-age for dangerous situations. (2) He can't be the type of sidekick who is annoying to the audience or who steals the spotlight from Batman. Multiple heroes can work in a story (e.g., the X-Men), but the Bat himself should command the most attention and be the story's focal point. (3) "Robin" can't wear a gaudy costume that is the opposite of stealth; it should be all-black or a combination of gray and black for operating in the shadows and at night, and of course augmented with armour. (Without "birdlike" colours, this may require a name-change from "Robin"; personally I'd prefer he immediately become Nightwing - or even a new Batman if Bruce retires at that point.)

Possible "Robinesque" scenarios. (1) A youthful holdover from the League of Shadows tracks Bruce down, and the Bat takes the place of Ra's as a trainer in the kid's life. Kid goes on to be Batman's partner or else strike out on his own - or perhaps even decides to become a villain.

(2) A troubled teen more in the Dick Grayson mold, or maybe a hybrid of Grayson/Jason Todd/Tim Drake, is encountered in the streets by Batman, who feels duty-bound to help the kid out somehow. But the kid would not become an overnight crimefighter. Instead he may be a computer nerd or something and helps Bruce out on the tech end of things, more like Oracle. Or if he's a street kid perhaps he could help Batman by scouting out some neighbourhoods (not engaging any thugs, though) for info. Only if the screenwriter establishes the character's street-smarts would it become plausible that Batman would use him as a mobile informant.

(3) Maybe in a future installment, Batman has aged and is close to retirement. Then he's thinking about the future of Gotham and realizes he needs to train someone to take his place. The future Batman could be the kid from Scenario (1) or (2), or with a first appearance in this particular installment. This could be more along the lines of a Dark Knight Returns plotline.

If the plot involves Batman nearing retirement, then his relationship to the new crimefighter could be along the lines of father-and-son. If Batman is younger and trains somebody roughly ten years his junior, then an "big brother" approach would work better.

Nolan's Bat-world. Here's another Wikipedia comment on Robin's origin:

"Early Batman stories frequently use the grim tone of the film noir and gothic horror films of the day, with Batman showing little remorse over killing or maiming criminals.
"This interpretation of Batman softens in Detective Comics #38 in 1940. Dick Grayson/Robin (named after Robin Hood) is introduced based on Finger's suggestion to Kane that Batman needed a 'Watson'. Kane, partly inspired by the Junior character from Dick Tracy, made the sidekick a young boy. . . . In Batman #7, (1941) Batman is made an honorary member of Gotham City's police department, moving him even farther from his dark, vigilante roots. Batman's tone continues to stay light for the next several decades."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman

So in other words the character of Robin was intended to lighten the mood of the Bat-mythos. Christopher Nolan, of course, has gone the dark and gritty route for this new film series, and critics, Bat-fans, and general movie-goers have all really taken to it. If there's some new version of Robin to show up in a Nolan Bat-film, the character has to be revamped in such a way as to fit into the "dark and gritty" atmosphere of this series. If he does not, he won't work. And if Watson can avoid dumbing down Sherlock Holmes stories, then a vigilante-trainee doesn't have to dumb down Batman stories.


Now, assuming Nolan only does three films, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to include Robin or a Robin-type character. Given limited time for a trilogy's story arc, it makes more sense to limit the number of characters and not do anything to distract our attention from Batman's own evolution. I agree with people who have said that maybe somewhere in Nolan's third installment a kid could be introduced (or the kid from Begins reintroduced and revealed as Grayson) whom the audience knows will one day become a crimefighter in his own right, but who never actually sees any crime-busting action in that film. My own Robin-type scenarios assume that Batman is at least 10 or more years older than he is right now in Nolan's series.

Now given that Nolan has already established the idea of "escalation," the idea of Batman training a new crimefighter makes a certain kind of sense - if it's done at the right time and in the right way. It seems believable to me that not only would criminals become more vicious and creative to match Batman's mean and unorthodox ways, but also that the Bat would inspire the rise of new crimefighters.

In a context of "escalation," Batman might even find he needs some backup, that he can't go it alone, and thus the idea of a trainee makes even more sense. So here's a fourth scenario (which may involve an older Batman wondering how he can cope with the expanding criminal element): What if escalation gets to the point where Batman comes up with the idea of his own "League of Shadows," perhaps simply called "the Batmen" or "League of the Bat"? Some plot strands from The Dark Knight Returns could be incorporated here.

Since Nolan is also emphasizing realism (thank goodness), the "Robin-type" character (or multiple trainees) would have to stay away from direct engagement with criminals until his training and maturity have actually made him ready for it. However, it's also believable that an over-eager kid would perhaps sneak around and insert himself into the action against Batman's orders. In that case there ought to be realistic consequences: perhaps the kid has the absolute crap scared out of him (maybe he gets beat to a pulp and nearly killed by the likes of a Joker or a Black Mask). Bats rescues him and then the kid's too scared to disobey orders ever again. This is something that would believably happen to a kid trying to take on serious criminals, and in that kind of story the kid wouldn't be annoying, but would learn precisely the lesson the audience wants him to learn.

Conclusion. I'm not opposed to the bare idea of Batman training another vigilante. In an escalation scenario it might even be more believable than not training a new crimefighter (or more than one). But the traditional Robin's age and gaudy costume have got to be changed in order to avoid ending up with a ridiculous character in a "serious" live-action production.

Sorry, but I hate all of your ideas. Just leave him out.

 

[ad101867]

Sorry, but I hate all of your ideas. Just leave him out.

"Hate" is a pretty strong word. If you had said, "Here's a different idea; I prefer this one," that would be cool. But saying you "hate" all the ones I suggested likely means you don't appreciate innovation.

 

[Thespiralgoeson]

"Hate" is a pretty strong word. If you had said, "Here's a different idea; I prefer this one," that would be cool. But saying you "hate" all the ones I suggested likely means you don't appreciate innovation.

Okay, here's a different idea; no Robin.

 

[StorminNorman]

I dont see why people are so opposed to there ever being Robin. After all, Batman is a fairly practical guy who is facing a war on crime - what better way to fight such a war than to recruit more soliders?

 

[Lex Luthor]

I'm in doubt that Nolan will ever bring in Robin to his Batman Universe, but hopefully that doesnt exclude the possibility of seeing atleast Dick Grayson being introduced by the second sequel.