Days of Future Past "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 2

[marvelrobbins]

Apocalypse will help clarify this but Simon Kinberg talks on both sides of his mouth on the issue.

 

[Havok83]

Spoiler

Yes, it is!

It did more than that. It also erased:

-Logan's first meeting with William Stryker.
-Logan's involvement with Team X.
-The weapon x experiment.
-All the deaths in Origins.
- Wolverine's amnesia.
- The deaths of Senator Kelly and Henry Gyrich.
- Magneto's mutation machine.
- William Stryker brainwashing Nightcrawler, Professor X, and Cyclops (which led to the dam collapsing and Jean's heroic suicide).
- Jean's transformation into the Phoenix.
and
-The battle of Alcatraz.

I tend to think that the events of The Wolverine still happened, just not the part where he's living in exile out of guilt for killing Jean or being haunted by her ghost since those parts are now erased.

You have no idea that none of that stuff happens. Unless there is some type of resurrections, we DO know however that Scott and Jean do not die. All that other stuff seems very plausible as stuff that may naturally play out anyway

 

[marvelrobbins]

let's be clear here.Lauren Shueller Donnor pretty much said they wanted fans to forget about Last Stand and origins.

Bryan Singer said on commantary of deleted scenes from what i heard since i don't have a blu-ray player and can't get blu-ray or HQ Itunes films to play on my computer that they changed the ending with wolverine in 1973 because they wanted to be able to change wolverine's back story.Thus In Apocalypse it;s very possable Apocalypse is now responable for the adamanturm thus weapon X Is erased.That causes major rewriting of Events of X-Men and X2.Yeah it's still possable the plot with machine and Stryker wanting to use xavier as part of his plan to kill all mutants.

Kinberg also said jean at end of DOFP never became dark Phoenix so only the cure plotline from Lats Stand could have happened

If Nightcrawler IS in Apocalypse and joins X-Men then him being brainwashed to attack white house is likely erased as well.

 

[psylockolussus]

If its a reboot without an actual reboot then its not really a reboot. you answered it for youself dax.

 

[dax]

You have no idea that none of that stuff happens. Unless there is some type of resurrections, we DO know however that Scott and Jean do not die. All that other stuff seems very plausible as stuff that may naturally play out anyway

How do you know the stuff I've listed didn't happened? Most of the events were caused by William Stryker and the fact that we all know that Mystique is posing as him at the end of DOFP means that the real Stryker isn't around to meet Wolverine or make him join Team X or volunteer for the weapon x experiment. He also wouldn't be around to invade the X-mansion nor would he kidnap and brainwash anyone including Cyclops because then, he wouldn't have made Jean rebound Cyclops's laser beams which cause the dam to break. That way, Jean wouldn't have died saving the X-men nor would she come back as the Phoenix and killed Cyclops and Xavier.

If its a reboot without an actual reboot then its not really a reboot. you answered it for yourself dax.

You still don't get it, do you? If you make a movie that erases 5 previous films out of existence, then you ARE making a reboot. Both the 2009 Star Trek film and its sequel, Into Darkness are reboots but they both feature Leonard Nimoy as the original Spock. Those films have the same time-traveling issue as the X-men films when Spock created a black-hole device that lets him time-travel back 130 years into the past where he meets both his younger self and Kirk. However, Spock's presence in the past has altered 40 years of Star Trek history and here are the examples:

Original Timeline: Spock's mother is alive and well as is the planet Vulcan.
New Timeline: Spock's mother dies at the same time planet Vulcan is destroyed.

OT: Khan dies as a result of him blowing up the Genesis torpedo.
NT: Khan lives but is now imprisoned in a cryo-tube.

OT: Spock dies saving the enterprise but not before he transfers his spirit into Dr. McCoy. Then, Spock is brought back to life by having the Vulcan priestess reunite his body and spirit.
NT: Spock lives but it is now Kirk who dies saving the Enterprise. Then, Dr. McCoy uses Khan's super blood to bring Kirk back to life.

OT: The Starfleet Federation and the Klingnon Empire form a truce to end a 70-year feud.
NT: There are hints in Into Darkness that Starfleet and the Klingnons are prepping for war against each other.

These 2 Star Trek films rebooted its entire franchise just like Days of Future Past rebooted the X-men movie franchise.

 

[psylockolussus]

Ummm no the events of the first ten ST films didnt led to the events of Star Trek 2009.

Yeah I clearly dont get it when more than 3 people already said its not a reboot.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Even though I say DOFP was more or less a reboot just because Mystique
Impersoned Stryker at end of DOFP doesn't mean there is no stryker.

Stryker's past with wolverine including weapon X project can't happen now
but that mean that

Stryker taking jason to the school
Taking him home when Xavier didn't cure him like he wanted
Jason using powers that drive his mother to kill herself
attacking mansion and using xavier in Plot to wipe out all mutants

could happen in some fashion but not the way it was seen In X2.

 

[Havok83]

How do you know the stuff I've listed didn't happened? Most of the events were caused by William Stryker and the fact that we all know that Mystique is posing as him at the end of DOFP means that the real Stryker isn't around to meet Wolverine or make him join Team X or volunteer for the weapon x experiment. He also wouldn't be around to invade the X-mansion nor would he kidnap and brainwash anyone including Cyclops because then, he wouldn't have made Jean rebound Cyclops's laser beams which cause the dam to break. That way, Jean wouldn't have died saving the X-men nor would she come back as the Phoenix and killed Cyclops and Xavier.

I dont know which is why Im not ascertaining it as fact. Again., until we see things play out onscreen, no one can say for certain what does or doesnt happen. How do you know Stryker doesnt get his hands on Wolverine from Mystique? Doing so would preserve much of what you just mention intact. Again a theme in DOFP is that things may still happen, but how you get to that point may vary, but the outcome is still the same

 

[GuestStar2004]

I dont know which is why Im not ascertaining it as fact. Again., until we see things play out onscreen, no one can say for certain what does or doesnt happen. How do you know Stryker doesnt get his hands on Wolverine from Mystique? Doing so would preserve much of what you just mention intact. Again a theme in DOFP is that things may still happen, but how you get to that point may vary, but the outcome is still the same

well to be fair them doing the whole stryker getting wolverine off mystique thing would just mean the ending to DOFP was a pointless tease for no reason, and if they were gonna go that route they could have kept the other ending they filmed thats in the deleted scenes where it actually was stryker fishing him out and giving him the codename X

xaviers last words spoken before we see its mystique as stryker speaks alot for that last scene "Enough ripples and you change the tide... for the future is never truly set"

 

[dax]

Ummm no the events of the first ten ST films didnt led to the events of Star Trek 2009.

Yeah I clearly dont get it when more than 3 people already said its not a reboot.

Voyage Home, Generations, and First Contact all involve the Enterprise crew time-traveling to a different point in time and neither film leads up to the other. The fact that A) Leonard Nimoy is even in the 2009 film and B) Nero knows Kirk's future is what connects this movie to the other 10 Star Trek Films. It's also like how Hugh Jackman's cameo in First Class is what connects that film to the X-men trilogy and the Wolverine films but First Class was supposed to be a reboot until 20th Century Fox changed its mind and decided that it's a prequel.

What I don't get is why some people like you would say that Days of Future Past is not a reboot even though it wiped away the events of all the X-men films except First Class. Even further is that X-Men: Apocalypse will not acknowledge the X-trilogy or the Wolverine films in light of the DOFP ending which further puts the movie in "reboot" territory.

I dont know which is why Im not ascertaining it as fact. Again., until we see things play out onscreen, no one can say for certain what does or doesn't happen. How do you know Stryker doesnt get his hands on Wolverine from Mystique? Doing so would preserve much of what you just mention intact. Again a theme in DOFP is that things may still happen, but how do you get to that point may vary, but the outcome is still the same.

The fact that both Gambit and Deadpool are getting their own solo films means that Stryker isn't around to capture or imprison Gambit nor does he turn Deadpool into a genetically-engineered mutant killer. If Stryker isn't around to collect them, then he doesn't get Wolverine either and as GuestStar2004 pointed out, it would be pointless for the filmmakers to have Stryker remove Wolverine from Mystique's custody for it will contradict with the DOFP ending. It's true that we don't know what does or doesn't happen because we don't even know what happened to the real Stryker. If his fate is anything like Senator Kelly's, then that further confirms that the events of Origins and the X-men trilogy have been erased because Mystique also impersonated Senator Kelly and he died in X1.

 

[marvelrobbins]

First CLass was suspose to be prequel.Matthew vaughn when he came on blurred the line between prequel and reboot.

A strong case could be made Bryan Singer intended FC to be prequel to just X-Men and X2 but letting James Mangold set the wolverine after last stand threw that out and it was decered to try to connect all the films together with DOFP before using time travel to "reboot" series.

The only connection APocalypse is going to original trilogy besides filmakers will be Hugh Jackman as wolverine and possable homages to OT In film.It's possable the ending could jump to new future so you briefly see the wolverine who remembers the films now erased and you could have a Patrick Stewart cameo.

In star trek the only thing more or less in canon with films is Enterprise save for final episode.You maybe could saw any star trek TV show or movie with characters in past prior to start of trek 2009 can be somewhat In canon.The past part i mean.

For X-Men it's FC,DOFP and if you want the pre 1973 parts of origins and the wolverine.

It doesn't matter if we like the idea of trilogy being erased.They have been.

 

[darkangel]

The last scene was beyond magnificent! It was pure happiness when you see the "old-squad" on screen after almost 10 years. Also loved the fact than Jean had more lines than Storm, Beast, and Scott.

 

[psylockolussus]

It was really a good scene and the audience/people that I was with when I saw the film multiple times inside the theater always had a great reaction to it!