Apocalypse The Official Sophie Turner/Jean Grey Thread - Part 2

[jaymes_e06]

Great points being brought up here about Apocalypse concluding story arcs like TDPS. It very much reminded me of how All New Jean reclaimed herself and tried to redeem her older counterparts wrongs.

 

[Mad Ones]

Of course X3 was extremely misognynistic. Nobody says something else.

But "X-Men: Apocalypse" tried to correct this ******** and made Jean a very compelling character in her own right who is fully in control!

Singer responded to X3 with "X-Men Apocalpyse" and corrected the sexist ******** Xavier has done in a different timeline! (under Ratner)

Wolverine's guilt about Jean's death was central to "The Wolverine" and he even made sure to save her life in "Days of Future Past". I appreciate this storyline and emotion although they come from a man. (urgh!)

I agree and it's why I quite like Apocalypse. I still can't really appreciate Jean in The Wolverine though, despite loving Yukio.

Phoenix in Apocalypse was literally a "Let it Go" moment.

 

[ApophènX]

I agree and it's why I quite like Apocalypse. I still can't really appreciate Jean in The Wolverine though, despite loving Yukio.

Phoenix in Apocalypse was literally a "Let it Go" moment.

That was a really emotional moment for me. It premiss Charles's letting go at the end.

Through the all movie it is woman helping man and it will changes at the end, Charles stopping to control them. It is what makes Erik's losts so tragic, he did everything right and loose his wife because of Charles not telling Moira.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Through the all movie it is woman helping man and it will changes at the end, Charles stopping to control them. It is what makes Erik's losts so tragic, he did everything right and loose his wife because of Charles not telling Moira.

I don't get that last part, he didn't lose his wife because of anything to do with charles at all

 

[Havok83]

I don't get that last part, he didn't lose his wife because of anything to do with charles at all

yeah I dont get that either

 

[ApophènX]

I don't get that last part, he didn't lose his wife because of anything to do with charles at all

If Charles didn't stole Moira memory no earthquacke, no earth trembling no coworker in danger, no Erik showing his power, no daughter dying.

Ultimately we could say that whatever the space or timeline Erik is condemned to loose his family...for Charles can have one. Totally unfair.

 

[Havok83]

If Charles didn't stole Moira memory no earthquacke, no earth trembling no coworker in danger, no Erik showing his power, no daughter dying.

Ultimately we could say that whatever the space or timeline Erik is condemned to loose his family...for Charles can have one. Totally unfair.

I still dont get it. How is Charles wiping her memory 20 years earlier responsible for this stuff? For all we know, had Charles not done that, Magneto never would have gotten married and started a family.

 

[GuestStar2004]

If Charles didn't stole Moira memory no earthquacke, no earth trembling no coworker in danger, no Erik showing his power, no daughter dying.

But how does that work though? he erased some memories from 1963 so how does that create these events? mutants were revealed in 1973 so she knew about mutants by then either way so why would things have been different if charles had not erased her memory of a couple of events?

 

[ApophènX]

But how does that work though? he erased some memories from 1963 so how does that create these events? mutants were revealed in 1973 so she knew about mutants by then either way so why would things have been different if charles had not erased her memory of a couple of events?

It is just than for me Apocalypse represent the repressed memory and Moira had to discover him: with the sun and Jean will destroyed him with fire. Only then she will recover her memory. Apoc says "All is revealed".

At the beggining of FC Charles only meet women and Erik Men. Charles has company and Erik is alone. It end the same way.

Erik told everything to his wife on contrary of Charles who is over controling woman, swippin their memory, lockin the bird Phoenix in a cage. Erik's daughter was free in nature and summoned birds. They were linked to me. Even in the scene where Scott shred up the tree we see Jean throwing an arrow. In the scene of her bad dreams their is a picture of a forest burning above her tree and paper birds hanging.

I think they mirrored Charles and Erik character. And linked the relations beetwen their families.

 

[Havok83]

It is just than for me Apocalypse represent the repressed memory and Moira had to discover him: with the sun and Jean will destroyed him with fire. Only then she will recover her memory. Apoc says "All is revealed".

At the beggining of FC Charles only meet women and Erik Men. Charles has company and Erik is alone. It end the same way.

Erik told everything to his wife on contrary of Charles who is over controling woman, swippin their memory, lockin the bird Phoenix in a cage. Erik's daughter was free in nature and summoned birds. They were linked to me. Even in the scene where Scott shred up the tree we see Jean throwing an arrow. In the scene of her bad dreams their is a picture of a forest burning above her tree and paper birds hanging.

I think they mirrored Charles and Erik character. And linked the relations beetwen their families.

they were in love? Those words were never uttered in FC. No one can even say they would even be together by the time DOFP came to be a decade later, Your whole point is based on a bunch of maybes; maybes which maybe wouldnt have happened. IMO its a stretch to blame Magneto's problems in the 80s on something Xavier did in the 60s

 

[ApophènX]

they were in love? Those words were never uttered in FC. No one can even say they would even be together by the time DOFP came to be a decade later, Your whole point is based on a bunch of maybes; maybes which maybe wouldnt have happened. IMO its a stretch to blame Magneto's problems in the 80s on something Xavier did in the 60s

It is not about them being in love and changing all the time line. Just staying in XMA:

The fact that Moira had repressed memory lead her to Apocalypse who is a nemesis of Charles. He represent the repressed memory. Everything he does in XMA Charles will end up doing, Charles will even repeat his world when freeing Jean. And he will get his own horsemen at the end:the X-Men.

Apocalypse first go to Ororo who is a thief, Charles will have to give back Moira memory, he was a thief too. Apocalypse got to free Psylocke of Caliban control, Charles will have to set Jean and Moira free. Apoczlyose gave Angel back his wing, Charles will allow Jean to fly by her own (the metaphor/link beetwen Angel and Jean was already in X3).

It is my interpretztion of it, my way of making sense of it. I look for clues, symbols ans similtude because it is what build emotions, the resonnance, that is what makes me all full of thrill when i'm watching the movies. Because the thing that are the most powerfull are those i do not see.

They clearly linked Jean's and Erik family, why would she have stab an arrow by the lake? That make the power of the scene where they are building the school together, the home, the family.

 

[henzINNIT]

One thing I did really like about this film is Xavier and Jean's relationship. I did notice how it felt like reparations for X3.

 

[DavidHaller]

One thing I did really like about this film is Xavier and Jean's relationship. I did notice how it felt like reparations for X3.

yes that's true. Singer already created a similar relationship for Jean and Xavier in X-Men 1. But unfortunately most of these dialogue scenes have been cut for the movie version.

I even remember one deleted scene where Jean tells Xavier how she can feel that her powers are more and more expanding (I couldn't find the scene online).

 

[henzINNIT]

yes that's true. Singer already created a similar relationship for Jean and Xavier in X-Men 1. But unfortunately most of these dialogue scenes have been cut for the movie version.

I even remember one deleted scene where Jean tells Xavier how she can feel that her powers are more and more expanding (I couldn't find the scene online).

It just makes me even sadder that we didn't get a proper X3. I always thought TLS was bad, but only recently did I notice how unpleasently it treats the female characters.

 

[Batsfan1]

wow, that's great, you are right. Never thought about this.

"X-Men: Apocalypse" is really like the anti-X3 in many ways.

"The Last Stand" is grounded in an heteronormative assimilative logic while "X-Men: Apocalypse" is like a queer counter-image: embracing difference vs. supressing difference.

I don't agree in the slightest. Not everyone takes the cure for mutant powers, not sexuality of any kind. I know that metaphor is thrown around a lot, but it simply cannot be applied. Dangerous superpowers of humans aren't the same. There's no difference to embrace in Rogue's case, because her powers don't make her different or not accepted. Her decision was about her and her choice based on what she wanted, not whether or not she was accepted. She wasn't forced to do it. She has a right to choose what to do with her life and she didn't want to have powers that hurt people. People pretend the metaphor is a reality, but it's not. Superpowers aren't sexuality. If this metaphor is to be applied, enhancement is a symbol of destruction though. But I wouldn't apply it either way. The movie doesn't really either. It treats Rogue's powers for what they are, something that she doesn't want, not because of acceptance, but because it keeps her from having the life that she wants. She has her God given free will.

It just makes me even sadder that we didn't get a proper X3. I always thought TLS was bad, but only recently did I notice how unpleasently it treats the female characters.

Hardly. Kitty outthinks Juggernaut and saves the boy. Storm is the head of the school at the end. Rogue exercises her free will and what she wants to do with her life. The only disadvantaged in that regard is Mystique and Jean. Cyclops and Charles are killed by Jean. That plays a pretty equal stance. The movie even goes out of it's way to say that Charles was wrong for messing with Jean's mind. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[psylockolussus]

Storm is the head of the school at the end.

I wanted to see more of that in X4!

 

[GuestStar2004]

I wanted to see more of that in X4!

What i noticed about you is that you are very much a want more till you have to settle person so i am almost certain you would have wanted more then the left over status quo.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I wanted to see more of that in X4!

Days of future past is the closet there ever will be to an X4.

 

[Batsfan1]

I wanted to see more of that in X4!

I wanted more of this too. I've never liked the whole, 'let's erase everything' idea when they could have just fixed the issues in an X4. So much of what people disliked was already prepared to be corrected at the end of X3. Cure isn't permanent, Xavier is alive and the Phoenix's thing is that she comes back. Cyclops' death could have been faked by Mister Sinister or something. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[DavidHaller]

I'm not gonna go into this discussion with you, Batsfan1, sorry...not worth it!

thanks everyone else for the enriching conversation!

 

[Batsfan1]

I'm not gonna go into this discussion with you, Batsfan1, sorry...not worth it!

thanks everyone else for the enriching conversation!

Speaking out about free will isn't enriching? That sounds like it lacks real meaning, to me. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Anyone notice the banner photo on Sophie's twitter profile? Lmao. Hilarious

 

[Paradox1]

I really enjoyed Sophie Turner as Jean not quite as good Fameke but still enjoyable. Watching two of the strongest mutants faceoff was a nerdgasm moment that had me sitting on the edge of my seat.

 

[ApophènX]

I wanted more of this too. I've never liked the whole, 'let's erase everything' idea when they could have just fixed the issues in an X4. So much of what people disliked was already prepared to be corrected at the end of X3. Cure isn't permanent, Xavier is alive and the Phoenix's thing is that she comes back. Cyclops' death could have been faked by Mister Sinister or something. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

I don't feel they erased it, it is part of them. It can really be felt when Xavier meet is future self or when he call for Jean's help and set her free. But this way they have of connected all those elements (wich we have already discuss above). It really feel like a whole. It makes it stronger, it is like they say "i did not forget you, you are still part of me, we can be together in a new way". Those films are family

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

I really enjoyed Sophie Turner as Jean not quite as good Fameke but still enjoyable. Watching two of the strongest mutants faceoff was a nerdgasm moment that had me sitting on the edge of my seat.

How many times did you nerdgasm? For me, it was...countless multiple times for Jean and Psylocke...lols okay and Magneto. ... Especially during the climax...lols