Apocalypse The Official Sophie Turner/Jean Grey Thread - Part 2

[BeholdMe]

Does anyone know if archery was just her hobby, I figured it would've been explained more in the movie or it was a way to help her control her powers but I could be wrong.

 

[Mad Ones]

I feel like that's in the cutting room floor too.

 

[BeholdMe]

I feel like that's in the cutting room floor too.

Lol yes that seems to be the case with these scenes as usual.

 

[ApophènX]

Does anyone know if archery was just her hobby, I figured it would've been explained more in the movie or it was a way to help her control her powers but I could be wrong.

It only serve to make a connection beetwen her and Magneto's daughter who is killed by an arrow.

When Jean has her nightmare in her room there is:

-a picture of a forest burning: this is linked to Scott shredding the tree of Charles, wich represented memory. And the forest Erik lost his family.

-we also see birds of paper close to the window. Erik's daughter will summon birds in the forest. Tree and birds goes together well also.

-they are also soldiers on her pillow wich more likely are link to the soldier we see in the forest.

This is interesting because she had a prophetic dream. It also linked Magneto and Charles's family. (Moira and Jean are the symbolic family of Charles, wich are opposite in relation, Erik told everything to is wife, and did not try to control his daughte power, he said to the solder "she does not control it, wich is also linked to Jean and Charle's fear).

In Auschwitz Apocalypse will make a speech about a forest burning, being effective to awaken the rage and Magneto power. Magneto will now be connected to the earth, just like his daughter who died before, she was also connected to nature, the earth.

If trees and forest are childhood memory and the goal of the movie to find a home, it is playing with real depth. Again showing the opposition of Charles and Erik, one let go easely of his childhood memory where Erik has to go all over it, he can't brezk the chain of pains. He is the depressed kind of person, closing himself in a bubble, puting an helmet. He is close to the world. Where Charles is open, that is why he is bald.

 

[henzINNIT]

I think we could have done without those before this.

True, but it being annoying elsewhere doesn't diminish it being as bad here.

It wasn't implied to be over that at all. Her last words are literally, "It's what I wanted." in response to Bobby's, "This isn't what I wanted." There's nothing not strong or confident about giving up powers that keep you from living any kind of life. But that was done because Anna Paquin couldn't be in the movie more and the writers thought that Rogue abandoning the team without taking the cure made her look bad.

Did we watch the same film? 90% of Rogue's limited screentime is dedicated to her being jealous of Bobby and Kitty. She leaves for the cure after seeing the two get close. On her way out of the door, Logan says "I hope you're not doing this for some boy" and she looks visibly conflicted. Rogue does say she did it for herself upon her return, but the rest of the film paints a different picture. Again though, her reason for doing it is secondary to the slightly disturbing connotations of doing it at all. "Have you ever tried not being a mutant?" was a pointed, potent line in the previous film afterall.

It sucks that Paquin's availability contributed to this, but while it offers an explanation, it doesn't excuse the decisions made.

I like Storm fine. But I would call that more a Wolverine being pimped out more, than a woman issue.

They're not mutually exclusive. I agree that pushing Wolverine to the forefront was their intent, though it's a shame that he was forced into a role that doesn't suit him when Storm was poised for that position.

Actually, the plan was that she faked her turn. They just couldn't Rebecca Romign back for the end of the movie scene where they showed her with Erik to show that.

As with Rogue, Romijn's availability explains it but doesn't excuse it. A plan is all well and good but it's not presented in the film and doesn't count. I wish she was there. She wasn't.

Again no. She was very much portrayed to be someone who had had her mind messed with by Xavier because he thought she couldn't handle. Logan straight blames Xavier for Jean's condition. The clear statement is that Charles was wrong. This isn't because Jean can't control her power. It's because a man tried to control her power and it created a monster. It's not because of Jean's lack of control, but the fact that control was taken away from her. Jean is the one who asks to be killed either way.

The film didn't have the balls to paint Charles in an outright negative light. Jean was shown to have been damaged by Xavier's meddling, however she was never given the chance to prove his actions wrong either. Would it not have been better for Jean to show some agency of her own? She has no motive or intent. She simply stands around until something triggers another meltdown. It's a piss poor story for a great character. All powerful but ultimately powerless to do anything, all she can do is beg for death.

Can't help but reflect on the ideas thrown around for X3 when Singer was still involved. Jean was to return as a force of nature who had decided to take the mutant crisis into her own hands. Various factions would battle for her soul and she would ultimately ascend to a higher level, leaving this planet behind. More epic in scope than explosive bi-polar disorder.

 

[Batsfan1]

True, but it being annoying elsewhere doesn't diminish it being as bad here.

But we all know it doesn't have any real connection to Kitty's character.

Did we watch the same film? 90% of Rogue's limited screentime is dedicated to her being jealous of Bobby and Kitty. She leaves for the cure after seeing the two get close. On her way out of the door, Logan says "I hope you're not doing this for some boy" and she looks visibly conflicted. Rogue does say she did it for herself upon her return, but the rest of the film paints a different picture. Again though, her reason for doing it is secondary to the slightly disturbing connotations of doing it at all. "Have you ever tried not being a mutant?" was a pointed, potent line in the previous film afterall.

Connotations based on a metaphor. They don't equal the same thing and Rogue is still a human being with God given free will and a choice that she made, not to be accepted or because she couldn't accept herself, but because, it took away from her having a life. It may not be an excuse. But it's the natural course to take in this movie based on everything they were given. But you also ignore the other half of the Logan/Rogue conversation, where he tells that if she wants to go to make sure it's what she wants, which leads into her final scene of her saying that it was what she wanted. Her being jealous was apart of the push to make her think about it, but that wasn't why.

They're not mutually exclusive. I agree that pushing Wolverine to the forefront was their intent, though it's a shame that he was forced into a role that doesn't suit him when Storm was poised for that position.

I think it is, because it would happen whether Storm was the leader or not, I think. But it is a shame, though I still like that she's the head of the school and she's the one who decides for it to stay open.

As with Rogue, Romijn's availability explains it but doesn't excuse it. A plan is all well and good but it's not presented in the film and doesn't count. I wish she was there. She wasn't.

Her not being there doesn't mean that wasn't what happened though. Personally I never really thought otherwise.

The film didn't have the balls to paint Charles in an outright negative light. Jean was shown to have been damaged by Xavier's meddling, however she was never given the chance to prove his actions wrong either. Would it not have been better for Jean to show some agency of her own? She has no motive or intent. She simply stands around until something triggers another meltdown. It's a piss poor story for a great character. All powerful but ultimately powerless to do anything, all she can do is beg for death.

Can't help but reflect on the ideas thrown around for X3 when Singer was still involved. Jean was to return as a force of nature who had decided to take the mutant crisis into her own hands. Various factions would battle for her soul and she would ultimately ascend to a higher level, leaving this planet behind. More epic in scope than explosive bi-polar disorder.

I would agree that that's a problem, but it did actively point to Charles as being wrong. If there's anything that's a theme in this movie it's choice. Logan comes at Charles for taking her choice away. The movie points to the fact that that's what he should have done. Even at the end, Logan acts on Jean's choice. Have a very great day you and everyone!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[BeholdMe]

It only serve to make a connection beetwen her and Magneto's daughter who is killed by an arrow.

When Jean has her nightmare in her room there is:

-a picture of a forest burning: this is linked to Scott shredding the tree of Charles, wich represented memory. And the forest Erik lost his family.

-we also see birds of paper close to the window. Erik's daughter will summon birds in the forest. Tree and birds goes together well also.

-they are also soldiers on her pillow wich more likely are link to the soldier we see in the forest.

This is interesting because she had a prophetic dream. It also linked Magneto and Charles's family. (Moira and Jean are the symbolic family of Charles, wich are opposite in relation, Erik told everything to is wife, and did not try to control his daughte power, he said to the solder "she does not control it, wich is also linked to Jean and Charle's fear).

In Auschwitz Apocalypse will make a speech about a forest burning, being effective to awaken the rage and Magneto power. Magneto will now be connected to the earth, just like his daughter who died before, she was also connected to nature, the earth.

If trees and forest are childhood memory and the goal of the movie to find a home, it is playing with real depth. Again showing the opposition of Charles and Erik, one let go easely of his childhood memory where Erik has to go all over it, he can't brezk the chain of pains. He is the depressed kind of person, closing himself in a bubble, puting an helmet. He is close to the world. Where Charles is open, that is why he is bald.

Idk about all that but thank you.

 

[henzINNIT]

Sophie Turner is probably my least favourite young incarnation. She does okay with the material but I feel like McAvoy is carrying their senes together. I also found the Phoenix stuff pretty premature. It's actually murkier than TLS's questionable explanation of Jean's power.

I always figured that after X2, the phoenix plot would be explained as a sort of secondary mutation, where Jean fulfills her potential and experiences a massive power increase. TLS kind of retconned this as a huge power she always had but couldn't control, so Charles created mental blocks to keep Jean sane and safe. That's not how I imagined it would go down back in the day, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Apocalypse appears to be following TLS's lead, in that Jean is struggling with her powers at a young age, only this time around Charles is being more nurturing and not fiddling with her mind. That's cool, and it was nice to see Charles goading Jean to let go and embrace her power.

... What exactly can she do now though? We got a firebird, but why? She fried Apocalypse by standing kinda goofy (like she'd been poked in an unpleasent place) and, erm, firebirding at him. I don't know. I wanted to like Jean's story more but it just felt off.

But we all know it doesn't have any real connection to Kitty's character.

True.

Connotations based on a metaphor. They don't equal the same thing and Rogue is still a human being with God given free will and a choice that she made, not to be accepted or because she couldn't accept herself, but because, it took away from her having a life.

The whole series based a lot on that metaphor. It's why many people like the films, or the comics that spawned them. The idea of a cure being thrown into the mix is very potent thematically. It asks some very deep questions so it's an utter tradegy that it was left to Ratner and Kingberg to handle.

It may not be an excuse. But it's the natural course to take in this movie based on everything they were given. But you also ignore the other half of the Logan/Rogue conversation, where he tells that if she wants to go to make sure it's what she wants, which leads into her final scene of her saying that it was what she wanted. Her being jealous was apart of the push to make her think about it, but that wasn't why.

I disagree, because I didn't buy it when she said it. That's just me though.

I think it is, because it would happen whether Storm was the leader or not, I think. But it is a shame, though I still like that she's the head of the school and she's the one who decides for it to stay open.

True. The leadership role Logan was forced into was robbed from Cyclops before it was robbed from Storm afterall.

Her not being there doesn't mean that wasn't what happened though. Personally I never really thought otherwise.

It kind of does... A lot of stuff could have happened off-screen. I don't think I thought Mystique was misleading the government back in the day. She is coldly abandoned by Magneto the last we saw her. There is nothing in the film to suggest she is still loyal to him.

I would agree that that's a problem, but it did actively point to Charles as being wrong. If there's anything that's a theme in this movie it's choice. Logan comes at Charles for taking her choice away. The movie points to the fact that that's what he should have done.

I don't think it did. I don't think they knew what they were trying to do. Outside of that spat with Logan, Charles is portrayed as his usual all-knowing monk self. He even gets an "I told you so" moment to Logan after the argument, when Jean wakes up, makes a mess and escapes. He is mourned by everyone when he dies.

I don't want to argue too long though cause I'm sure we agree that it's mostly down to the failings of TLS that we are even talking about it. Whether we agree or not on points, I bet we'll agree that it spawns from what the film should have handled better.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I have watched the phoenix scene a couple of times from various sources online and it still gives me goosebumps.

its a very well directed scene.

 

[Avenging Angel]

That's funny because I always thought the Phoenix Saga should just be its own film separate from the trilogy. I think the teasing without origin story is really getting annoying. The Phoenix scene in the film is still pretty good even though we're just supposed to except she was born to be that powerful without it being explained.

A separate movie should flesh it out nicely. Bring back Sophie, do the origins justice, finally should be closer to the actual retelling.

 

[Havok83]

That's funny because I always thought the Phoenix Saga should just be its own film separate from the trilogy. I think the teasing without origin story is really getting annoying. The Phoenix scene in the film is still pretty good even though we're just supposed to except she was born to be that powerful without it being explained.

What needs to be explained? She's a mutant. Thats the explanation. Some are more powerful than others and Jean so happens to be

 

[xmanzo]

in original timeline from the start jean grey is already an omega class mutant and xavier put barriers to control her powers which leads in making jean's 2nd persona who calls herself phoenix. In x men apoc xavier did not put any barriers on jeans mind maybe bec he already knows what will happen in the future based on what he saw on wolvie's head..

 

[psylockolussus]

Class 5 not omega

 

[CaptainCanada]

Sophie got an X-Men logo tattoo, evidently:

 

[Superhero 101]

Hot

 

[GuestStar2004]

Where? i cant see, ohhhhhh

 

[tanita_mors]

left side boob. lol

 

[Kal-El.9859]

She's my favorite Jean Grey out of the two. I would have loved to have seen her alongside Patrick Stewart's Prof. X but that would have been extremely weird with the love triangle they had going on. I'm still not sold on James McAvoy as Prof. X.

 

[Wildcard]

I like McAvoy as Professor X, I feel that he's a solid & competent choice in taking the reigns from Stewart.

But yeah, between Turner & Famke, I do prefer Sophie. Nothing against Famke, but I still feel Sophie gives me more of what I want from a live action Jean Grey.

 

[Guard82]

I loved both Famke and Sophie as Jean because I thought they both did a wonderful job of capturing Jean's essence and embodying her character. Sophie's performance was one of my favorite parts of the latest film.

 

[CaptainCanada]

The audition video excerpt included in the special features is really good. Too bad the modified version of the Annie Richardson backstory didn't make it into the film itself.

 

[Stan Lee]

I found it strange that Apocalypse having the same vision as Jean isn't talked about much.

 

[Marvelboi92]

She did better than I thought, I remember seeing that leaked trailer back in 2015, it seemed like she was struggling a little with the American Accent, but she pulled it off and did a good job as Jean and looked great too.