The Dark Knight Rises Roven: Joker Could Return

[BestGirl]

dang, a third one. sorry. im not makein u repeat yourself, u dont hav to respond at all. if its was nolan's idea and he chose the actor he could make it work, it would just be hard but it could work. and the idea was that he was suposed to be the jokers copycat that look so much like him they believed it was him.

That really sounds like a baseless rumor started by some fanboy.

 

[Crook]

Eh, it's just the nature of comic book movies that a villain shows up, battles with the hero for a couple of hours (our time), and then dies or goes to jail. I'm fine with it because, frankly, sometimes less is more. I know the Joker appears in comics all the time but having him in too many Batman movies would be overkill. Just look at how some Superman fans are sick of Luthor to the extent they don't even want him in the next movie to see what happens when a villain is overused.

That's not even remotely comparable. Lex has been in about 5 live-action Superman films. Joker has been in....2. Even discounting this discrepancy, people have been in love with Joker every time he's been on-screen. There is a massive demand for his appearance. Lex didn't even have that the first film he was in.

 

[regwec]

The Joker just has a visual "whoa" factor like Dracula, or the Devil, too. He excels where Lex falls short.

 

[CConn]

Not to mention, Lex Luthor has never been portrayed nearly as interestingly as he could be on film. He's always been reduced to a cackling megalomaniac.

 

[Arkham Paitent]

why does there have to be someone trying to imitate Ledgers Joker?

I would rather someone in the film become a copy-cat imposter Joker, kind of like Batman of the Future Return of the Joker

Theres many different versions of The Joker in the comics, it can be shown on film by bringing in an imposter or two trying to follow in the footsteps of there old leader or hero

 

[cin0]

that was exactly my point

 

[Infinity9999x]

why does there have to be someone trying to imitate Ledgers Joker?

I would rather someone in the film become a copy-cat imposter Joker, kind of like Batman of the Future Return of the Joker

Theres many different versions of The Joker in the comics, it can be shown on film by bringing in an imposter or two trying to follow in the footsteps of there old leader or hero

That's really not the best example, since in ROTJ, the Joker in that movie was exactly the same as the Joker from the previous BTAS incarnations. In fact, it was the same Joker, he just happened to be using another body for his own purposes.

 

[markstrange]

Lex just has yet to be portrayed right. Lex is more like Adrian from the watchmen movie then anything we have seen on the big-screen. Lex believes hes a good guy, even in his evil, and not a villain. Gene Hackman's Lex was a villain, believed it, and loved it. He didn't fit the part at all. Kevin Spacey was a good choice for Lex - He looked the part and acted it quite well (perhaps a bit crazy). The only problem he was he was playing off of Gene Hackman's Lex and not the comic so much - after all they were supposed to be the same person.

 

[Timstuff]

If Joker does appear in Batman 3, I think it should be as a cameo, and his face should mostly be shadowed over so that we can't really tell that it's not Ledger. They can get someone to impersonate his voice with possible digital enhancements, and if they are REALLY ambitious, maybe they could get permission to do a shot with a CG overlay like they did with Ahnuld in Terminator Salvation. It should be limited to a cameo though, and nothing more, so as not to say "he can easily be replaced," but rather the opposite.

 

[Arkham Paitent]

That's really not the best example, since in ROTJ, the Joker in that movie was exactly the same as the Joker from the previous BTAS incarnations. In fact, it was the same Joker, he just happened to be using another body for his own purposes.

It was the original Joker, but a different person.. I was using the fact it wasnt the original Jokers body as a point

I honestly dont want to see The Joker again, sure a cameo within Arkham would be cool, or maybe an in-poster but I think they should move onto the next threat

If Heath Ledger was still alive, I would be demanding Joker in the third!

 

[TheBatman072]

Like I've said before, I sincerely want a shot of Joker, in a bullet-resistant glass cell. A bed and toilet on opposite sides of the cell, and a plastic stool in the center. He's on it, wrapped up completely from neck to waist in an "overkill" straightjacket(double the buckles and straps, maybe even a few chains). There are overhead lights, so his face is partially hidden in a light shadow. His leg is bouncing up and down and he's just giggling and twitching. At Joker's back, where his bed is, on the other side of the glass, is a computer deck with monitors and keyboards, the monitors are showing what the cameras, positioned at almost every angle around Joker's cell, are looking at. Every angle of the Joker is watched by a guard. But, since it IS Gotham, every night at around the same time, the guard goes to get a soda or coffee or whatever. He turns on a security alarm system and leaves. And the position Joker is in isn't random. He's facing that direction for a reason. Out of a shadowy part of the room, Batman steps forward. He does this every single night at the end of his patrols, to make sure Joker is where he belongs. And all Joker does is just stare. He stares at where Batman will be, is, and then, for a short time after, where he was. Twitching and giggling to himself the entire time. Like someone who just heard a really funny joke and was dying to share it with someone.

And that's really all I want Joker to do in this movie since Heath is gone. Simple, incredibly effective, and it gives us a bit more Joker without it stepping on Heath's performance so soon after it blew everyone's mind.

Which is why I nominate Joseph Gordon-Levitt. He has a good, Joker-like build, VERY similar facial features to Heath, so the prosthetics and make-up and such can remain very much the same. And he's a DAMN good actor.

Hell, we could even show a shot at some point of Joker staring at the spot where Batman stands every night, and here over the intercom from the lazy guard, "Hey clown, your hot, blonde shrink is here again. Fourth session in a week. Must be making some PROGRESS." And Joker looks over his shoulder and just winks(or something).

That'd be perfect, and give EVERYONE what they want.

 

[Timstuff]

Using JGL would be a waste if they're just going to shroud over his face and "homage" the Joker. If you don't want to tread on Ledger's performance, then don't bother wasting the talents of someone like Levitt on what's sure to be little more than an extended cameo. Really, anyone who has a similar facial structure to Ledger could easily fill in, and on top of that they might end up CGing it over anyway, as well as dubbing him over. Like I said, no need to waste the talents of someone like Levitt if he's not going to be given the same opportunity Ledger was to make the role his own.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I say re-cast...if Nolan has a real purpose for Joker. Don't just throw him in there. But knowing what Nolan is like we don't need to worry bout that. Don't do an imitation of Ledger. Get the actor who gets the gig to delve into the character and become the Joker just like Heath did.

Why would anyone care if it's a different actor playing him as long as it is another frightening, stunning performance? I know I won't. It's a ****ing movie at the end of the day. You don't see people complaining about how Jack Ryan changed from Alec Baldwin to Harrison Ford do ya?

As I've said a million times before; Joker's story is not done. And let's be honest, if Heath was still alive there wouldn't be one person (unless they didn't like his take) saying "Meh, Joker's story is done". It's the frickin Joker!!! I just don't see the sense in introducing Joker into Batman's world, NOT killing him and then completely sweeping him under the carpet in the FINALE to a Batman trilogy. It would be a wasted opportunity and to be honest, it would sorta break continuity and contradict TDK if you wanna be a stickler.

Joker breaks out of jail almost at will. Joker is fused to Batman. Batman "completes" him. Would Joker sit in his cell twiddling his thumbs whilst the man that "completes" him is being hunted by the police and other villains? Or would the Joker that we all know and love not want the police or another villain to kill Batman? I was under the impression all these years that Joker would NEVER allow that to happen.

He wouldn't even have to be the main villain, so other villains would have time to shine. Remember, Joker is a thorn in EVERYONES side. Batman, police AND villains. Why not have Joker just pop up randomly to throw a spanner in the works of another villain, Riddler for instance. Say Riddler has a methodical plan that is just about to work. All hope is lost. Then Joker appears and ****s it all up for him or something? That sounds like something Joker would do.

 

[Timstuff]

The thing is, I don't buy this notion that Ledger's death doesn't affect anything. It DOES change things, and since Ledger has effectively defined the Joker for this generation, I am skeptical that Nolan would be willing to take that away from him so soon. I think Nolan would be willing to alter his vision for the trilogy out of respect for Ledger. Joker will be recast some day, but my personal belief is that it won't be until a new director takes over the franchise. I think it is too soon to talk about totally replacing Ledger, and for now the best that I'd hope for is a cameo appearance from him as an Arkham inmate.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Ehhh see I don't think Ledger tragic death should effect it.

I am a MASSIVE fan of his performance, it was immense. But still, it is a character in a movie. Ledger was an actor in a movie. That's all it is. Ledger doesn't own the Joker. And I think it's pretty silly and quite, I dunno, weird, to be like "Oh no that dis-respects Ledger if you re-cast!". Joker is Joker. He ain't some throw-a-way villain. Joker is bigger than any actor. The show must go on.

If Bale died would everyone be like "Let's not do another Batman movie, it disrespects Bale!" Errrrr...no.

It is actually quite disturbing the way some people worship Ledger. They think they were friends with him and knew him and all that. It's quite sick if I think about it. Like those muppets that set up that petition trying to boycott Joker from future movies.

I'll be the first to say he turned in a barn storming performance. But to change the ideas of the next film, to dismiss Joker SIMPLY because of Ledgers death is quite pathetic IMO.

 

[kevcampbell]

who looks like heath ledger and is an excellent actor like heath ledger?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Well if you wanna go by looks then JGL looks like him and is a good actor.

But I don't even think he has to look exactly like Ledger. I don't think there is anything wrong in going a different route to the look of TDKs Joker.

I'd choose Tom Hardy. The guy is an immense actor, better than Ledger IMO. And he revels in playing lunatics. I think he would blow us all away if he got to play Joker and really delved into the character and created something personal like Heath did.

 

[sauronthegreat]

But I don't even think he has to look exactly like Ledger. I don't think there is anything wrong in going a different route to the look of TDKs Joker.

I also think that the Joker may and may not look exactly like Heath's in the sequel. This character was written so perfectly on the psychological basis and was performed even more astonishing by Ledger that the character has strong foundations to portray him in some other way. The most important trait is his sanity, and he can have many persona resulting in a different act.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Exactly. That is even mentioned in the comics a few times. He sorta, reinvents himself every so often. I don't see why that can't be applied to film. In fact I think that could be quite unique and throw people completely off balance if he reappears slightly more different. And as they say, "People fear what they don't understand"

 

[kevcampbell]

but if the joker did look different would they add something to the movie to explain why he looks different or would we just see a joker that looks different to heath ledgers joker?

 

[Crook]

Ehhh see I don't think Ledger tragic death should effect it.

I am a MASSIVE fan of his performance, it was immense. But still, it is a character in a movie. Ledger was an actor in a movie. That's all it is. Ledger doesn't own the Joker.

The argument would be that Joker isn't a main supporting character that is essential in every story. In this regard, Alfred and Gordon are more important to the franchise than Joker is, simply because the latter has had his shine.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The argument would be that Joker isn't a main supporting character that is essential in every story. In this regard, Alfred and Gordon are more important to the franchise than Joker is, simply because the latter has had his shine.

I would only argue for the Joker to come back if Nolan had planned for the Joker to be a key player in the 3rd movie's plot. If the Joker is essential to the story he wants to tell, then recast. Yes, Heath gave an absolutely stunning performance, but part of the Joker's brilliance was the writing, and I don't want Nolan to sacrifice his artistic plan because Heath died.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Well yea that's my stance. I don't want Joker thrown in just because.

All I'm saying is if Nolan had/has plans for him, I don't think he should just re-think them simply because of Ledgers untimely death.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Well yea that's my stance. I don't want Joker thrown in just because.

All I'm saying is if Nolan had/has plans for him, I don't think he should just re-think them simply because of Ledgers untimely death.

Exactly.

 

[BestGirl]

but if the joker did look different would they add something to the movie to explain why he looks different or would we just see a joker that looks different to heath ledgers joker?

They probably wouldn't explain it. Maggie Gyllenhaal looked completely different from Katie Holmes but the change in appearance between the two was never explained. I'll bet Rhodey's change from Howard to Cheadle in IM2 won't be explained either. I suppose directors just assume that audiences are savvy enough to keep up.