The Dark Knight Rises Roven: Joker Could Return

[Anjow1060]

This thread STILL being open, is proof in the pudding that the MODs are still on winter vacation.



- Jow

 

[Ryan]

I think Ledger's Joker was best to date. Is it complete a complete performance? No. I would have loved to have seen what he would done in a third film. Perhaps he could have taken the character further. Does anyone know for a "FACT" if Ledger was signed up for a third? Not sure why this simple little piece of history hasn't been reported anywhere. I think the third would have been great with the Joker behind bars "helping" Batman track down a loose Two face ala Silence of the Lambs. Oh well. I still think Ledgers best work was in the bank robbery scene of the movie. Guys were dying like the end of a punchline (what bus driver??) and it was truly dark humour. Even his voice was really creepy and disturbing. His wicked witch of the west/james cagney impressions further on down the line were a bit disappointing....but thats just me. Appearancewise i'd give it 10+++...that will be hard to replace. Performancewise for me....i'd say 7.....but its a billion times better then Nicholson's any day of the week. Sorry Jack. How about just making Batman 3 in the future with Keaton vs Nicholson one last time to get things right? Just kidding....sorta....

 

[mrbrownie]

I think Ledger's Joker was best to date. Is it complete a complete performance? No. I would have loved to have seen what he would done in a third film. Perhaps he could have taken the character further. Does anyone know for a "FACT" if Ledger was signed up for a third? Not sure why this simple little piece of history hasn't been reported anywhere. I think the third would have been great with the Joker behind bars "helping" Batman track down a loose Two face ala Silence of the Lambs. Oh well. I still think Ledgers best work was in the bank robbery scene of the movie. Guys were dying like the end of a punchline (what bus driver??) and it was truly dark humour. Even his voice was really creepy and disturbing. His wicked witch of the west/james cagney impressions further on down the line were a bit disappointing....but thats just me. Appearancewise i'd give it 10+++...that will be hard to replace. Performancewise for me....i'd say 7.....but its a billion times better then Nicholson's any day of the week. Sorry Jack. How about just making Batman 3 in the future with Keaton vs Nicholson one last time to get things right? Just kidding....sorta....

...Why?

 

[Ryan]

To be honest, and its just my opnion as I'm sure tons of people will say he is the joker incarnated.....I just had a different Joker in mind based upon the trailers. I think I almost enjoyed the three trailers as much as the actual movie as I thought they were extremely well done. I think for the general public his Joker was a 10 plus performance worthy of the oscar. His performance has a wide appeal. For me personally, I just didn't find that one scene that you find in silence of the lambs or in psycho where the character stands out and makes a real statement and is defined. I also thought some of his adlibbing....'rack'em up rack'em up" and a few other scenes kinda fell flat with me. Sorry I'm rambling. I think he had some awesome ideas with the character,,,the limping, the licking of the scars etc. I also think that alot of the performance I've already seen before in other movies ala james cagney,capote,wicked witch of the west etc. I still think that bank robbery short scene....the dark humour, the voice, the toned down performace was a 10/10 for me....wish the joker would have continued in that vein. Again just my opnion..

 

[Ace of Knaves]

This thread STILL being open, is proof in the pudding that the MODs are still on winter vacation.



- Jow

Well this thread and any thread discussing the return of Joker will remain open and should remain open untill someone in the know ie. Chris Nolan categorically states that Joker won't return.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

To be honest, and its just my opnion as I'm sure tons of people will say he is the joker incarnated.....I just had a different Joker in mind based upon the trailers. I think I almost enjoyed the three trailers as much as the actual movie as I thought they were extremely well done. I think for the general public his Joker was a 10 plus performance worthy of the oscar. His performance has a wide appeal. For me personally, I just didn't find that one scene that you find in silence of the lambs or in psycho where the character stands out and makes a real statement and is defined. I also thought some of his adlibbing....'rack'em up rack'em up" and a few other scenes kinda fell flat with me. Sorry I'm rambling. I think he had some awesome ideas with the character,,,the limping, the licking of the scars etc. I also think that alot of the performance I've already seen before in other movies ala james cagney,capote,wicked witch of the west etc. I still think that bank robbery short scene....the dark humour, the voice, the toned down performace was a 10/10 for me....wish the joker would have continued in that vein. Again just my opnion..

Hmmm...so his chat with Batman in the interrogation room, or his successful attempts to blag up Harvey in the hospital or his final speech to Batman whilst hanging up side down weren't statements or definitions of the character? All them scenes summed up the character of Joker perfectly. Especially that final speech to Batman at the end, I've been waiting for a scene like that in a Batman movie forever.

 

[Ryan]

I think they were good....I just don't think there was a particular moment in the movie that stood out....say like....spacey walking with the limp at the end of usual suspects or hannibal's line of eating kidney farfa beans or anthony perkins screamning 'mother oh mother the blood'......again its just my opnion...not say i'm right or wrong...and i do think he's probably the best protrayal of a bat villain.......

 

[Ryan]

also...i was hyped for the interrogation scene as well...but check out Hopper and Walken in True Romance to see a really intense scene between 2 actors. That was really something special.....i'm probably being too critical....sorry for that...I just found alot of scenes in the movie started off as amazing ideas and left me feeling short changed at the end...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Fair enough. I just think there were perfect scenes of the Joker. And I would put him exiting the hospital up there with them things you mentioned. But the unfair advantage the Spacey scene has is that it was a massive twist at the end of a brilliant film, of course that would stick out in the memory more.

 

[Ryan]

Thanks for understanding. I don't want to argue with anyone or say i'm right. I've seen the movie a million times and will probably watch it a million more. Its thankfully erased the previous series of bat movies from my mind...which....I never enjoyed. The Nolan bat movies made are by far my favourite superhero movies of all time. Probably over analysing them as I have isn't a good thing I suppose....but thanks for your feedback and I enjoy listening to other points of view as well....

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea no worries man. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It's just some of these new people don't really know how to get them across. I'm glad you ain't one of them.

 

[Ryan]

No no. Hope I'm not already falling into some negative category of fan lol. I also do hope I'm expressing myself well. I've probably focussed too much on the negative I guess, but all in all I think its the best bat movie we will get for along time. I do enjoy listening to others and their points of view as well.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Na don't worry about it. I think I've watched TDK too many times, I don't get the same enjoyment out of it now either. The first few times I see it i was stunned, but I've seen it too many times, I find myself skipping to the Batman or Joker scenes now. I might just not watch it for months then re-watch it and be blown away again!

 

[Ryan]

Ya I'm same way.....cept now i'm starting to go back and watch the Two Face scenes now and give the Joker a rest..lol.......

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea well, that very final scene with Two Face is brilliant. Eckhart does an amazing job. The way he conveys guilt and as though he is having second thoughts but at the same time crystal clear realization that what he is doing is right in his mind is spot on IMO.

 

[Two-Face]

Ya I'm same way.....cept now i'm starting to go back and watch the Two Face scenes now and give the Joker a rest..lol.......

Shame they spend too much on ferry scenes, Two-Face scenes were small to compare to that.

 

[Ryan]

I thought he was great too....and I think he could do so much more with the character in a third film....do more of the duality stuff referring to himself differently like he does in the comics. When his voice cracks or whatever at the end...when he says to Gordon..." you think i want to escape from this? there is no escape from this....".....was awesome.

 

[Ryan]

I didn't mind the ferry scenes too much.....just never understood why a) gordon thought two face was in the building where the joker was hanging out...and also b) why there was so little dialogue when batman finally confronts the joker at the end.....joker more or less just sicks the dog on him right away..without saying much...wonder if heath's death meant they had little to work with at the end. I also thought batman would have been angrier at the joker...considering his best friend/gf was blown up by this guy.....Dent did a good job of displaying that emotion though....whereas batman seemed muted.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

But that is Batman summed up perfectly really. He has always bottled his emotions up so they don't get in the way of him doing his job. Well I should say Bruce always bottles his emotions up. I honestly thought he was gonna come out and reveal himself when Harvey said "..why was I the one who lost everything!?!?" and Batman responds..."You wasn't". You could see the pain on his face, that he probably wanted to tell Jim and Harvey the truth. But he realizes he can't do that.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Also, he's pretty much wallowing in self guilt (again.)

 

[Ryan]

Good points. I just thought they could have showed batman hammering the hell out of the joker at the end...almost losing himself in the moment of beating him....and then....stopping to restrain himself from killing him. For a guy that had his potential wife blown up he showed no ferocity at all.

 

[Vanquisher]

I just don't see the point of bringing him back for a second film, when there are plenty of other great rogues to be given justice.

*Cough* THE RIDDLER.

I can see the Joker coming back for any film as long as his appearance to the film fits.

 

[Vanquisher]

Even aside from the whole Heath matter, I don't think that it would be a good idea to have the Joker again. Don't get me wrong, I loved TDK's Joker as much as anyone and more, but first, as a character, he gave everything he got in this movie and anything else with him will feel repetitive and second, if we assume that this potential new Joker will be as good as Heath's (which is the best case scenario, I think we agree), I don't really want another movie in which the Joker steals the spotlight from the other characters (ahem*Two-Face*ahem*Batman*ahem-ahem).
IMO - get new and fresh villains. Or use some of the ones in the old movies, by doing them real justice ala Two-Face. But leave the Joker in Arkham and that's it.

You make good points, but they are also old.

There is no question that Heath made a great Joker. However, the character of Joker is much bigger then Heath could ever portray.

The only way to make a new Joker work with another actor is to change the character. IMO, make him even more crazier and deadlier. Did Joker go to jail at the end of TDK? Or did he go to Arkham? Perhaps, in Arkham Hugo Strange experimented with some drugs on the Joker making him even more deadlier and psychotic as before.

All in all, in order for any actor to play the role of Joker, the character itself has to change. That, IMO, is how you help people not think of Heath Ledger, when the Joker is on screen.

 

[Rincewind]

But where is the need for that, Vanquisher? I'm not denying that it can be done, I just wonder why. The Joker is not the only good villain that Batman's mythos can offer, I'm sure you agree.

P.S. If my points are old, that is because people have realized the truth long ago

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I think people want Joker back because his inclusion will add a sense of completion to this trilogy. Joker is Batmans arch nemesis right? So how can a super heroes arch nemesis (who is alive and well) be completely skipped out for the finale to a trilogy?