The Dark Knight Rises Roven: Joker Could Return

[Ace of Knaves]

Sin City? Che? Traffic? He is a brilliant actor. Not sure about him for Joker though.

 

[CaptainClown]

He was great in all of those, but he didn't exactly make me think....damn I don't know who this great actor is... BENICIO?! OF COURSE!
I wouldn't call him a chameleon, however he is a great actor.

 

[regwec]

Yes, but look at every other performance of his. Jack is Jack, no matter the character.

Really? Would you care to compare his performances in "China Town", "As Good as it Gets", and "The Shining"?

 

[El Payaso]

Nicholson Joker was very easy to suprpass infact most people thought it was Jack acting like Jack

Which is quite difficult to surpass. Michael Caine and Heath Ledger agreed on this.

Now... "most people thought"?

Heath Ledgers performance is something people will be talking about for years and years to come

I see. Same as happened with Nicholson.

 

[Goodfellas]

Heath Ledgers performance as Joker is ten times bigger than Nicholsons

Thasta fact

Ledgers character has become a cultural icon not saying Nicholsons hasnt but Ledgers take on it will be remembered more than nicholson

 

[regwec]

How is it a fact? It doesn't even mean anything.

Is it really a suprise to you that Ledger's Joker is currently more recognised and celebrated than Nicholson's? "The Dark Knight" was a year ago; "Batman" was twenty years ago.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I was about to say exactly the same thing reg.

Of course when you mention the Joker to someone in this day and age they are going to think "Heath Ledger!!". It only came out last year, it's still fresh in every ones memories.

 

[Goodfellas]

I was about to say exactly the same thing reg.

Of course when you mention the Joker to someone in this day and age they are going to think "Heath Ledger!!". It only came out last year, it's still fresh in every ones memories.

Right but 20 years from now who is gonna be known as Joker?

Heath Ledger

I dont get it with some of you i get the impression that you people werent that impressed with Heath Ledger

Every line Ledger said has become a popular movie quote on the same lines as "Iam your father" "ill bad back" "ill make him an offer he cant refuse"


I dont get this website 8 months ago people on this website where raving about Ledger being the definite Joker now you people act like what he did was nothing special

The guy just gave a performance that is more memorable than any other movie villain since hannibal lector most people will agree

 

[itsthebatman]

Right but 20 years from now who is gonna be known as Joker?

Heath Ledger

I dont get it with some of you i get the impression that you people werent that impressed with Heath Ledger

Every line Ledger said has become a popular movie quote on the same lines as "Iam your father" "ill bad back" "ill make him an offer he cant refuse"

I dont get this website 8 months ago people on this website where raving about Ledger being the definite Joker now you people act like what he did was nothing special

The guy just gave a performance that is more memorable than any other movie villain since hannibal lector most people will agree

Nobody's saying he didn't give a great performance (he did), but there's no need to denigrate Jacks' performance while praising Heath's. Jack hasn't won two Best Actor Oscars for no reason, you know, he is one of America's all time greats.
Time will tell whether Ledger leaves the same mark on the character - I imagine he will. As for his lines entering popular culture, I would venture that only 'Why So Serious?' has reached that iconic level so far.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

No, no, no. I think he did a OUTSTANDING job. Truly brilliant.

But see, we ain't close minded. We don't think "NO ONE WILL TOP HEATH LEDGER!" We don't think that because a actor who played him unfortunately died, that a character as big as Joker should just be automatically written off from the next film.

 

[Crook]

I think the underlying fear for some is that if Ledger is topped in such a short amount of time, Ledger's work would have been forgotten in favor of the "new guy". Similar to how Jack is long history when compared to Heath.

 

[rnewbz]

I agree with Roven, actors have to be seperated from their roles. Ledger did awsome, but he was not the only person capable of playing him. In the comics the Joker always reinvents himself, easy soultion. My vote goes to Michael Shannon.

 

[Goodfellas]

I dont care if an actor can top Heath Ledger or not i dont want another Joker right now theres no need

In Nolans verseHeath Ledger is Joker years from now when another director takes a stab let another actor take a shot, iam not saying Ledger is the only one to play joker but after an epic performance like that lets give it a rest and wait a while before someone else tries it makes most sense imo

And yes i know Jack Nicholson is a great actor but imo Ledger did a way better job than Nicholson in terms of creating the character of the Joker

 

[Boom]

It is not a matter of fact that Ledger was better than Nicholson, or vice versa.

It is, and will always remain, a matter of opinion.

 

[Crook]

In Nolans verseHeath Ledger is Joker years from now when another director takes a stab let another actor take a shot, iam not saying Ledger is the only one to play joker but after an epic performance like that lets give it a rest and wait a while before someone else tries it makes most sense imo

While true that we don't need a new Joker so soon after Heath, it's still not a particularly good reason.

 

[El Payaso]

Heath Ledgers performance as Joker is ten times bigger than Nicholsons

Thasta fact

That's mere opinion.

Ledgers character has become a cultural icon not saying Nicholsons hasnt but Ledgers take on it will be remembered more than nicholson

You have to consider Ledger's tragic death. It takes nothing from his brilliant job, but it makes you get into the collective conscience in a powerful way. He's another James Dean, brilliant actor, but it was his premature death what made him a cultural icon.

Right but 20 years from now who is gonna be known as Joker?

Heath Ledger

And if someone else gives an outstanding performance as Joker, he will be the one who'll be remembered. Exactly like Nicholson was remembered for nearly 20 years as the best Joker.

I dont get it with some of you i get the impression that you people werent that impressed with Heath Ledger

Every line Ledger said has become a popular movie quote on the same lines as "Iam your father" "ill bad back" "ill make him an offer he cant refuse"


I dont get this website 8 months ago people on this website where raving about Ledger being the definite Joker now you people act like what he did was nothing special

The guy just gave a performance that is more memorable than any other movie villain since hannibal lector most people will agree

Mh. I see you're too afraid of people not liking him. But I can tell you this much: I myself think Ledger was absolutely brilliant (I can't think of anyone saying otherwise, but you never know). And as you see, other members think that too, but we also know who else was brilliant as Joker in the past.

In a couple of decades, if we have another awesome Joker, I hope I'll be there to reply to the future Ledger-naysayers and make them remember.

I dont care if an actor can top Heath Ledger or not i dont want another Joker right now theres no need

In Nolans verseHeath Ledger is Joker years from now when another director takes a stab let another actor take a shot, iam not saying Ledger is the only one to play joker but after an epic performance like that lets give it a rest and wait a while before someone else tries it makes most sense imo

All you say there was appliable to Nicholson's Joker man. Nobody dared to have Joker back in 20 years. Even Ledger was respectful of Jack's performance.

And yes i know Jack Nicholson is a great actor but imo Ledger did a way better job than Nicholson in terms of creating the character of the Joker

"imo"

 

[Rac]

On a related note: did any of you see Revolutionary Road??? Micheal Shannon's performance just screamed Joker.

I don't know about the Joker, but I'd love to see Shannon as bat-villain in Nolan's batverse.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Right but 20 years from now who is gonna be known as Joker?

Heath Ledger

Unless someone comes along and does a performance just as memorable in that time frame. I loved Heath, and I personally thought he was better than Jack, but you have to take into account the aspect of changing times and cultures. Jack's Mr. J seems a bit tame compared to Ledgers, but part of that is because Burton was limited by what a studio would let him do. Heck, at that time, there were people in the general public angry because he wasn't having the 60's theme song in the movie. Think of what Burton could have done if the public had already been ready for a dark Batman movie as they were today.

Now, Heath probably will be remembered longer, and a large part of that goes to his performance, but also the fact that he was in the 2nd biggest movie in the world, and the fact that he died before the movie was released. Still, we have no way of knowing if he'll still hold the crown for the best Joker in 20 years.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I loved Heaths Joker, I really did, well, do.

But the fact that people are basically writing off other actors before they have even had a crack at the role is just stupid to me.

People might not want to admit it, but Heath wasn't the greatest actor of our time. There is other guys out there that if given the chance, if given basically a free reign to create the Joker as they see fit (much like how Ledger was) could blow us all away, again.

Even on a subconscious level, the thought that Ledger is dead is what scares people away from some one else doing it. Not that "he can't be topped". It's just that they don't even realize it.

 

[Goodfellas]

Yea I loved Heaths Joker, I really did, well, do.

But the fact that people are basically writing off other actors before they have even had a crack at the role is just stupid to me.

People might not want to admit it, but Heath wasn't the greatest actor of our time. There is other guys out there that if given the chance, if given basically a free reign to create the Joker as they see fit (much like how Ledger was) could blow us all away, again.

Even on a subconscious level, the thought that Ledger is dead is what scares people away from some one else doing it. Not that "he can't be topped". It's just that they don't even realize it.

But see thats the thing there are plenty of actors iam sure who given the freedom could come up with a great joke but you cant do that in Nolan films now because we already saw the Joker, it was unique in its own way

now you want someone else to come in and do something different? that wouldnt work because Joker mannerisms, personality you name it have already been set in tone in Nolans verse so the actor would pretty much have to mimic most of what ledger did oter wise it becomes an issue of conitunity

How do you explain that to millions of people who saw TDK and they see someone elses take on Joker and its different than Ledger?People would start thinking that some other psycho decided to follow in the Joker from TDK


If your gonna bring in an actor to play the Joker in the nex Nolan film he has to continue what Ledger with the character and maybe expand on it a little


Thats why i kep telling you people that say theres plenty of actors that could do what ledger did and try and create there own joker, yeah i am sure there are but save that for someone elses take other wise we would have 2 different jokers in the same movie verse, which would be stupid

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea fair points actually.

But as others have said before, the Joker isn't exactly consistant in terms of psyche is he? He is all over the shop. The look, the little tics and the voice could be replicated. But he could have a whole new personality and it wouldn't really be out of character.

Joker in TDK was trying to corrupt people, to make them like him. Maybe he could realize that isn't the way to go and whilst sitting in his cell he could get even crazier. Then his mission could be not to corrupt, but to kill. What about a Joker venom plot of some kind?

 

[MaJiN]

Quite of few people are saying they'd rather see the Joker in a Batman film separate from Nolan's take. If the Joker shouldn't be seen again in a Nolan film, we might as well not see him in any other film. The way I see it is this. Let's say somewhere down the road Zack Snyder does a "The Dark Knight Returns" film which has the Joker in the story. Even if this actor who portrays the Joker does a great performance, would he be accepted by even half of the fans of Ledger's Joker?

 

[Rincewind]

Quite of few people are saying they'd rather see the Joker in a Batman film separate from Nolan's take. If the Joker shouldn't be seen again in a Nolan film, we might as well not see him in any other film. The way I see it is this. Let's say somewhere down the road Zack Snyder does a "The Dark Knight Returns" film which has the Joker in the story. Even if this actor who portrays the Joker does a great performance, would he be accepted by even half of the fans of Ledger's Joker?

If this "The Dark Knight Returns" movie has no story or aesthetic connections to the Nolanverse, I don't see a problem. It won't be so different from the situation with Ledger and Nicholson.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea there Ledgers Joker is obviously popular with the fans and G.A alike.

But I think you guys give too much credit to Ledger for it being popular. It is also highly popular for the simple reason that it is the Joker. Regardless of Ledger the fact is the Joker is the biggest villain in the comic book film history, no one can surpass him. Even just in movie history Joker is one of the greatest villains. This isn't your bog standard super hero villain, this is the JOKER we are talking about.

IMO people will flock to a film with the Joker in it regardless of Heath Ledger. As long as someone else puts in a visceral, frightening performance, I don't think the average movie goer would be like "Well it isn't Heath Ledger so he is crap!!!". The average movie goer won't care about all that, they just want to see the Joker again.

 

[screena]

Yea there Ledgers Joker is obviously popular with the fans and G.A alike.

But I think you guys give too much credit to Ledger for it being popular. It is also highly popular for the simple reason that it is the Joker. Regardless of Ledger the fact is the Joker is the biggest villain in the comic book film history, no one can surpass him. Even just in movie history Joker is one of the greatest villains. This isn't your bog standard super hero villain, this is the JOKER we are talking about.

IMO people will flock to a film with the Joker in it regardless of Heath Ledger. As long as someone else puts in a visceral, frightening performance, I don't think the average movie goer would be like "Well it isn't Heath Ledger so he is crap!!!". The average movie goer won't care about all that, they just want to see the Joker again.

true!

think about it: no matter how good heath would have acted, he would never ever got an oscar if he had played...hm, lets say...the riddler.