Age of Ultron Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

[BigThor]

Unfair comparison. Groot has one phrase and the Hulk has a history of talking. He started out being a fully talking & thinking creature so I don't get why people are acting like the Hulk talking is a new concept.

To not show aspects like this is negating a huge part of who Bruce Banner and the Hulk are....conflicting personalities that are constantly changing & experiences differences in character traits.

If you just make it as simple as "Banner's a nerd and Hulk is a dumb brute" then it gets boring fast. Very fast.

I agree, very well said

 

[Micromind]

Urmm...Groot is also a talking & thinking creature.

 

[Roose Bolton]

But with Groot its a schtick that he only says one phrase, Hulk has always been a fully articulate character.

 

[terry78]

I'm still not entirely sure why the films in his franchise felt the need to make him mostly mute. I assume because he's viewed more as a special effect than a character.

 

[Micromind]

Rocket Raccoon talks so much...that Groot can manage to say only one phrase.

But I agree... Hulk needs to talk , its been frustrating to see hulk as a "two dimensional force of nature".

 

[Roose Bolton]

It's something that really needs to be addressed, because it's a fundamental flaw with their approach to the character.

 

[Kirmit]

I'm still not entirely sure why the films in his franchise felt the need to make him mostly mute. I assume because he's viewed more as a special effect than a character.

And this is the exact problem, until they show his personality, let him speak he'll only ever be a special effect.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Unfair comparison. Groot has one phrase and the Hulk has a history of talking. He started out being a fully talking & thinking creature so I don't get why people are acting like the Hulk talking is a new concept.

To not show aspects like this is negating a huge part of who Bruce Banner and the Hulk are....conflicting personalities that are constantly changing & experiences differences in character traits.

If you just make it as simple as "Banner's a nerd and Hulk is a dumb brute" then it gets boring fast. Very fast.

 

[chamber-music]

 

[Ghostcrow13]

There is so many great ones for Civil War like this

 

[Spitfire]

I think Whedons statement that Feige/Marvel only want Hulk to appear in Avengers movies probably shows that they have little interest in developing his character. After introducing him as a silent brute are they prepared to invest time to develop his personality/ability to speak? He may be used as nothing more than a special effect as suggested.

Ruffalo has also commented on how little time is available for each character in Age of Ultron. When you consider Banner/Hulks time will include the breakdown of his friendship with Tony and his possible relationship with Widow there may not be much time left to focus on seeing the Hulks personality emerge?

 

[Wildcard]

I'm still not entirely sure why the films in his franchise felt the need to make him mostly mute. I assume because he's viewed more as a special effect than a character.

Unfortunately this is true for the most part, which is why he suffers. But the Hulk should, by right, have solo films that are making what X-Men, Captain America & GOTG made this year.

But to do that they need to implement more than that "smash" element.

I don't know...maybe AoU will get Hulk a bigger pop than the first film that results in Marvel seeing that they need to give him his own movie.

I mean, do we really want to waste an opportunity to get a Hulk solo film when Mark Ruffalo has been PERFECT as the character?

 

[Adversary]

I think Whedons statement that Feige/Marvel only want Hulk to appear in Avengers movies probably shows that they have little interest in developing his character. After introducing him as a silent brute are they prepared to invest time to develop his personality/ability to speak? He may be used as nothing more than a special effect as suggested.

It's not that they have no interest in developing his character. The 2008 hulk movie just wasn't as successful as they wanted it to be which is why he hasn't had a solo-project since then.

Hulk is mostly mute in several iterations of the comic as well, so I don't understand the complaints for lack of dialogue. Plus, I rather have the savage/dumb version of Hulk so that Banner learns to suppress Hulk further and continually become more intelligent as him . It makes for better character development in the long run.

 

[terry78]

They kinda only just started the silent Hulk after the movies started doing it though. That scene in TIH when he's in the cave with Betty was a missed opportunity for him to just utter a few phrases about protecting her from the storm and what not.

 

[Roose Bolton]

It's not that they have no interest in developing his character. The 2008 hulk movie just wasn't as successful as they wanted it to be which is why he hasn't had a solo-project since then.

Hulk is mostly mute in several iterations of the comic as well, so I don't understand the complaints for lack of dialogue. Plus, I rather have the savage/dumb version of Hulk so that Banner learns to suppress Hulk further and continually become more intelligent as him . It makes for better character development in the long run.

You really don't understand the complaints of him not speaking? Really? a character who has spent the majority of his 52 years in comics as a fully functioning, talking being who is able to articulate his thoughts and ideals...and you think it's ok to reduce him, someone who has been compared to Spider-Man in significance within the Marvel brand, as a action special effect with zero characterization?

 

[Bren]

If someone (like a director in this case) prefers/likes/can only afford/forced to use 'mute Hulk', so be it - but the reasoning given makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Adversary]

You really don't understand the complaints of him not speaking? Really? a character who has spent the majority of his 52 years in comics as a fully functioning, talking being who is able to articulate his thoughts and ideals...and you think it's ok to reduce him, someone who has been compared to Spider-Man in significance within the Marvel brand, as a action special effect with zero characterization?

Why is it required for a character to talk all the time in order to have good characterization? Like mentioned before, Groot is a lot of people's favorite character in GOTG and he only has 2 different lines.

Savage Hulk was always a huge part of those "52 years in comics" and will most likely get a few lines in the movie (so he isn't exactly mute). How exactly are they reducing Hulk by portraying his most prominent personality trait? They can always make him more intelligent & articulate like they did for the Planet Hulk comic.

 

[Zoom]

You really don't understand the complaints of him not speaking? Really? a character who has spent the majority of his 52 years in comics as a fully functioning, talking being who is able to articulate his thoughts and ideals...and you think it's ok to reduce him, someone who has been compared to Spider-Man in significance within the Marvel brand, as a action special effect with zero characterization?

I couldn't have put it better.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Why is it required for a character to talk all the time in order to have good characterization? Like mentioned before, Groot is a lot of people's favorite character in GOTG and he only has 2 different lines.

Savage Hulk was always a huge part of those "52 years in comics" and will most likely get a few lines in the movie (so he isn't exactly mute). How exactly are they reducing Hulk by portraying his most prominent personality trait? They can always make him more intelligent & articulate like they did for the Planet Hulk comic.

Groot's whole schtick is that he can only say one phrase and that one phrase means different things that we the reader/audience don't really get. Hulk, even when Savage Hulk, has always been able to fully verbalize his thoughts and opinions, and he does, often and loudly. In Planet Hulk he might have been terse, but what he said was always to the point and always conveyed his thoughts and opinions.

Hulk as he has been portrayed in the films barely mutters single words and the occasional catch phrase. Try giving the likes of Cap or Iron Man the same amount of dialogue and see how well that goes over.

 

[CoherentChaos]

Unfortunately it could also boil down to CGI budget. He's a very expensive spectacle, and he may remain that way. Every second he's on screen is an expense, so they probably want to keep that budget for wow moment.

Groot was a little easier I think, less subtle nuances go in making believable tree texture, even if that tree texture is on an alien. They could afford to have many closeups on him just for him to say his catchphrase. I fear Hulk may be an entirely different case. Pores on the skin, hair, the inside of his mouth, his teeth and curling of the lips as he speaks, etc. All goes into account for a closeup cause it has to look insanely good.

That being said, I'd agree that future directors that get their hands on the Hulk should at least attempt to fit in chances for his personality to come through, and give him a few dialogues with other characters. It may be expensive, but I believe it would be worth the attempt.

 

[Kirmit]

It's not that they have no interest in developing his character. The 2008 hulk movie just wasn't as successful as they wanted it to be which is why he hasn't had a solo-project since then.

Hulk is mostly mute in several iterations of the comic as well, so I don't understand the complaints for lack of dialogue. Plus, I rather have the savage/dumb version of Hulk so that Banner learns to suppress Hulk further and continually become more intelligent as him . It makes for better character development in the long run.

See I could never get my head around this, Marvel themselves caused the movie to underperform and now refuse to give him another solo outing. By this I mean, they seriously under marketed the movie, left the promotion until the very last minute and very clearly put more effort into Iron Man then weren't happy with the results. Now, I'm not saying TIH was a perfect movie, it very clearly had flaws but IMO it would've done much better had they marketed it better.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Yeah, I think we got our first trailer in like, March of 08.

 

[tyr8nt93]

Well, hopefully will see more of the interactions between Hulk and Bruce. To me, he is one of the most psychologically characters. So, to see something more than just a 'stupid' Hulk would be great.

Though, his character does have worries. How long can you drag or utilize the interactions between the two before it gets tiring? Because that to me is the most compelling part. But how do you investigate it without it becoming 'whiny' as most people deemed the first Hulk movies as. In addition, a lot of people say you won't be able to utilize him in any meaningful way once there's a reconciliation. He becomes an ace in the Hole for whatever team he is on. People want Hulk, but it's important to use him sparingly since he's considered a powerhouse.

Kevin Feige said that Hulk/Bruce would still be a notable character 'particularly' in the Avengers movies. Does this mean that there is a chance that he will be in others besides them? If so, then is he going to be a legitimate side character or nothing but a cameo vis a vis Iron Man 3 after credits? And since most of the movies coming up are introducing new characters, how do you put him in without him overshadowing the new star?

I don't think he's going to be in Captain America III as so far no news of that. If they were willing to spoil Natasha Ramanov being in it, I feel like they would have done so with Bruce at this point. GOTG 2 seems ruled out by director. So if he does appear in movies other than Avengers, it probably won't be until after the two parter Avengers: Infinity War.

As someone who considers Bruce Banner/The Hulk to be my favorite character(s) of the MCU so far and comics, I guess it's sad that I can see so many reasons for him not to be used. If he's around, people will expect him to Hulk and thus you need a plot that won't make it easy if he is around. And if he isn't around, people will wander where he is when all these events are going down. Because though it'd be interesting to seeing him hide or living off the grid again, I can't imagine many audiences not getting bored with that.

Anyone feel the same? What movies are possible that Bruce could be in?

 

[Sarg92]

The Incredible Hulk had a troubled production which was possibly a result of Marvel Studios being in its infancy.

The film had a mediocre script written by Zak Penn. Marvel weren't entirely sure if the film would be a sequel to Ang Lee's Hulk or a reboot resulting in a film without a clear purpose. According to Louis Leterrier, he wanted to cast Mark Ruffalo but Marvel wanted Edward Norton who only agreed to signing on to the film after meeting with Leterrier and being allowed to rewrite the script. The Norton additions were cut from the film for a leaner action packed film. Critics agreed that the first act of the film (Brazil) was great but as soon as Banner returned to meet Betty the film became generic. The Brazil stuff had a lot of influence from Norton and his latter work with the character of Dr Samson and Betty interactions were all cut, along with the attempted suicide opening. The leaked script of the film was darker in aspects and the action (especially the final battle with Abomination) was far more visceral and had lots of collateral damage, compared to the final film.

Poor marketing and placement of the film between Hancock and The Dark Knight never really gave it a chance to have big success.

There's also the fact that Universal still holds distribution rights for Hulk which is a factor for the lack of standalone Hulk films.

If Marvel were to make TIH today then it would be a much better film as the studio has matured considerably since 2008.

 

[Micromind]

Ehh... like others have said... Marvel did not market it as much as they did IM, also if I remember correctly.... Marvel Studios forced Leterrier to cut many portions to reduce the run-time.