Age of Ultron Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

[Adversary]

Groot's whole schtick is that he can only say one phrase and that one phrase means different things that we the reader/audience don't really get. Hulk, even when Savage Hulk, has always been able to fully verbalize his thoughts and opinions, and he does, often and loudly. In Planet Hulk he might have been terse, but what he said was always to the point and always conveyed his thoughts and opinions.

Hulk as he has been portrayed in the films barely mutters single words and the occasional catch phrase. Try giving the likes of Cap or Iron Man the same amount of dialogue and see how well that goes over.

Well Groot used to talk normally in the comics too and no one seems to have a problem with them limiting his range of speaking for the movie. It's like how some writers have hulk talk a lot, then some writers like to take him back to the "hulk smash" version. Whedon just happens to be one of those writers who isn't a fan of Hulk talking a lot.

Hulk's whole Shtick is that he acts like the inner-child of Dr. Banner, so it would be like wanting a 5 year old talk more. The best lines you can get from him are stuff like "Hulk smash" or "Puny God". Banner is still a central part of the Hulk's character and he will get as much lines as Cap or Iron Man.

See I could never get my head around this, Marvel themselves caused the movie to underperform and now refuse to give him another solo outing. By this I mean, they seriously under marketed the movie, left the promotion until the very last minute and very clearly put more effort into Iron Man then weren't happy with the results. Now, I'm not saying TIH was a perfect movie, it very clearly had flaws but IMO it would've done much better had they marketed it better.

Can't really blame Marvel for that. It is pretty difficult to promote a movie when the main star refuses to do any kind of promotion. However, It isn't just about how the movie underperformed at the box office or the critical reception though. It also has to do with the conflict between Norton and the film’s producers and the fact that they had to replace him later on

 

[Smashlilman]

It's not that they have no interest in developing his character. The 2008 hulk movie just wasn't as successful as they wanted it to be which is why he hasn't had a solo-project since then.

Hulk is mostly mute in several iterations of the comic as well, so I don't understand the complaints for lack of dialogue. Plus, I rather have the savage/dumb version of Hulk so that Banner learns to suppress Hulk further and continually become more intelligent as him . It makes for better character development in the long run.

Well Groot used to talk normally in the comics too and no one seems to have a problem with them limiting his range of speaking for the movie. It's like how some writers have hulk talk a lot, then some writers like to take him back to the "hulk smash" version. Whedon just happens to be one of those writers who isn't a fan of Hulk talking a lot.

Hulk's whole Shtick is that he acts like the inner-child of Dr. Banner, so it would be like wanting a 5 year old talk more. The best lines you can get from him are stuff like "Hulk smash" or "Puny God". Banner is still a central part of the Hulk's character and he will get as much lines as Cap or Iron Man.



Can't really blame Marvel for that. It is pretty difficult to promote a movie when the main star refuses to do any kind of promotion. However, It isn't just about how the movie underperformed at the box office or the critical reception though. It also has to do with the conflict between Norton and the film’s producers and the fact that they had to replace him later on

No he wasn't. Hulk was never mute in his comics. Savage Hulk was always talkative and highly expressive. His speech ranged form broken speech with a lack of pronouns to completely coherent speech but with a brutish tone. That's even excluding all the coimcs with his other variant personalities. The muted Hulk thing didn't start until they made the TV series and the only reason for that was because they didn't believe Lou Ferrigno could act. They did the same thing to Arnold Schwarzenegger in Conan the Barbarian.

I think at this point no one can claim that people don't want to hear Hulk speak on the big screen for prolonged periods of time. They did so with Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. People even preferred to watch the apes sections of the movie over the Human sections.

Dawn of the Planet of the Apes: Becoming Caesar
[YT]5CC2XQ78Sok[/YT]

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well Groot used to talk normally in the comics too and no one seems to have a problem with them limiting his range of speaking for the movie. It's like how some writers have hulk talk a lot, then some writers like to take him back to the "hulk smash" version. Whedon just happens to be one of those writers who isn't a fan of Hulk talking a lot.

Hulk's whole Shtick is that he acts like the inner-child of Dr. Banner, so it would be like wanting a 5 year old talk more. The best lines you can get from him are stuff like "Hulk smash" or "Puny God". Banner is still a central part of the Hulk's character and he will get as much lines as Cap or Iron Man.

No, it's not.

 

[Farren]

I'd like to see Hulk become more verbal and more developed in personality, but at the same time I can live with a largely non verbal Hulk. I'm open to different interpretations of these characters, and I can see how in an ensemble movie the idea is to keep it simple for the audience (not the same as treating them like they are stupid).

 

[Ghostcrow13]

I've never been a massive fan of Hulk stringing sentences together but I do subscribe to the more Banner is in control the more he should speak and vice versa concept.

For example a lot of people thought it was convenient or a plot hole that Banner could suddenly control Hulk in A1, I think most of us realised the sceptre played are part at the explosion and stuff, but perhaps if when Thor said 'Banner try to think' and Hulk said something like 'Banner not here any more' and then later on in the big battle he said something which only Banner would say then it would have showed the difference between Banner in control and Banner not in control.

And then in AoU when we see the 'Hulk Hulking out' then he could have been consigned to just roars and 'Hulk smash'

Even with Banner fully in control though I wouldn't want him like EMH when he was just having full conversation it worked well for the show and I liked his interactions but I prefer the more animalistic view of Hulk.

 

[Sarg92]

I've never been a massive fan of Hulk stringing sentences together but I do subscribe to the more Banner is in control the more he should speak and vice versa concept.

For example a lot of people thought it was convenient or a plot hole that Banner could suddenly control Hulk in A1, I think most of us realised the sceptre played are part at the explosion and stuff, but perhaps if when Thor said 'Banner try to think' and Hulk said something like 'Banner not here any more' and then later on in the big battle he said something which only Banner would say then it would have showed the difference between Banner in control and Banner not in control.

And then in AoU when we see the 'Hulk Hulking out' then he could have been consigned to just roars and 'Hulk smash'

Even with Banner fully in control though I wouldn't want him like EMH when he was just having full conversation it worked well for the show and I liked his interactions but I prefer the more animalistic view of Hulk.

Banner having influence over Hulk is not a plot hole. In TIH, Banner "aimed" Hulk at Abomination and at the end of the film, Banner is shown having control of Hulk by transforming at will.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Banner having influence over Hulk is not a plot hole. In TIH, Banner "aimed" Hulk at Abomination and at the end of the film, Banner is shown having control of Hulk by transforming at will.

Were you reiterating my point, or did you not read my post?

 

[Zoom]

No, it's not.

Yeah, someone need to read more Hulk comics.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

was he misrepresented then when he said 'puny god'?

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Not in the slightest. Its something he'd say. Everyone just wants him to say more.

 

[Sarg92]

Were you reiterating my point, or did you not read my post?

Just stating that Banner having control was not a "sudden" event but rather something that had been introduced in TIH.

was he misrepresented then when he said 'puny god'?

I'd say that in Avengers he didn't really have enough screen time to warrant multiple lines so "puny god" was okay for the context of the scene. However in the MCU, Hulk has just spoken four times in two appearances. In TIH he pretty much whispered "leave me alone", shouted "Hulk smash" and said "Betty". In Avengers he just said "puny god".

Other than a few words, he hasn't been shown expressing his thoughts or engaging in conversation with other characters. I think this what what Hulk fans want to see in terms of characterisation.

 

[Kirmit]

I don't want it to be 'Hulk is in control, so he can't talk' then 'Banner is in control, so now Hulk can talk', Hulk is his own personality, fully capable of speech without Banner, he should never be shown as a mute or pretty much as good as a mute.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

I just like the idea of once Hulk gets fully out, then you can't reason within him and that is exemplified by him not talking much.

 

[Spitfire]

I don't want it to be 'Hulk is in control, so he can't talk' then 'Banner is in control, so now Hulk can talk', Hulk is his own personality, fully capable of speech without Banner, he should never be shown as a mute or pretty much as good as a mute.

Good point. With this approach its not the Hulk personality that's talking but Banner.

I also want to see the Hulk communicating with a range of people. Ruffalo has stated that the Hulk will only communicate with Widow in the movie, and I will be disappointed if this is true.

I was hoping after the New York scene that we would get to see him interact with all of the team (there were aspects of this in Avengers, for example when Tony asked him if he had tried shawarma). Even a few words exchanged with Thor would be entertaining! I want to see him interacting with friends and not just the latest love interest.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

To be fair Hulk is only used for action scenes, and most of the characters don't speak during the action scenes.

However I guess the point is valid of it's Banner speaking not Hulk, however what about what they do in the comics, or at least how they explained it one of the comics as to why sometimes he speaks and others he doesn't, is that when he speaks it is because Hulk and Banner are coinciding, but when the Hulk comes out like on the Helicarrier then banner is trying to suppress him and so Hulk can't speak.

 

[Farren]

I never interpreted Banner as being in control of the Hulk in the final Avengers fight. I saw it that Banner was in control of the actual Hulkout itself -- and that he may have been able to influence the state of mind which Hulk emerged in -- but as far as I was concerned, that was all Hulk during that final fight.

 

[Sarg92]

My idea for Hulk talking is that when he's calm then he can speak coherent sentences and easily express his thoughts but he only speaks with purpose rather than just for the sake of it. But as his level of anger increases, his speech becomes incoherent, you get more growls and roars and Hulk possibly talking in third person - almost like a child in a tantrum being upset/angry.

 

[tyr8nt93]

Speaking of interactions, is it really confirmed that the relationship between Bruce and Natasha will be romantic? Everyone knows that they will have some sort of dynamic, the trailer gives it a hint, and Ruffalo stated that romance was in future when questioned (though in a joking laughing manner).

I wonder because neither actor has come right out and stated it, at least not in my recollections. Which confuses me because if the media has latched on and most audience members have latched on and footage is shown, then why not just come out and state it?

I personally WOULD NOT MIND IT if they shared a relationship - a sort of Beauty and the Beast thing - as long as it didn't detract from the narrative. Joss Whedon, a lover of his female characters, would be the director to make sure it was meaningful. That being said, is it possible it's just platonic or at least focused more on the dynamic of both of them being 'monsters'? I would like their similarities of both being remade and both trying to atone for the sins of the past. I just don't know if a romance would arise from it or work with it.

 

[Adversary]

No he wasn't. Hulk was never mute in his comics. Savage Hulk was always talkative and highly expressive. His speech ranged form broken speech with a lack of pronouns to completely coherent speech but with a brutish tone. That's even excluding all the coimcs with his other variant personalities. The muted Hulk thing didn't start until they made the TV series and the only reason for that was because they didn't believe Lou Ferrigno could act. They did the same thing to Arnold Schwarzenegger in Conan the Barbarian.

I think at this point no one can claim that people don't want to hear Hulk speak on the big screen for prolonged periods of time. They did so with Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. People even preferred to watch the apes sections of the movie over the Human sections.

Dawn of the Planet of the Apes: Becoming Caesar
[YT]5CC2XQ78Sok[/YT]

I am not saying he was completely mute. Around the time the avengers was first created in the comics Hulk started to became more savage and developed a childlike personality shifting from a brutish figure who spoke often in complete sentences. People here are arguing that he should talk like the Hulk before the Avengers which I disagree with.

I agree Hulk should get more lines, but does he really need as much lines of dialogue as Cap or Iron Man? Not really. While this may be unsatisfying to movie-goers, the character of the Hulk is not truly the central element in the Hulk storylines, Dr. Banner is.

No, it's not.

This is not a matter of opinion. Marvel themselves describe his character as "childlike".

 

[TheVileOne]

He should talk like he does in the Avengers cartoons.

The fact of the matter is they are sticking with as the man of few words format. That's just how it is.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I am not saying he was completely mute. Around the time the avengers was first created in the comics Hulk started to became more savage and developed a childlike personality shifting from a brutish figure who spoke often in complete sentences. People here are arguing that he should talk like the Hulk before the Avengers which I disagree with.

I agree Hulk should get more lines, but does he really need as much lines of dialogue as Cap or Iron Man? Not really. While this may be unsatisfying to movie-goers, the character of the Hulk is not truly the central element in the Hulk storylines, Dr. Banner is.



This is not a matter of opinion. Marvel themselves describe his character as "childlike".

Maybe you should actually read the comics before making such sweeping statements.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Lol agreed. That maybe the case somewhat in the movies but not the comics.

 

[Farren]

Lol agreed. That maybe the case somewhat in the movies but not the comics.

Agreed. Hulk is huge in the comics. IME the fandom tends to get crankier when Hulk gets marginalized, not when Banner does (and I say this as someone who tends to prefer Banner).

That being said, I don't think some of you guys are in as big a disagreement as you seem to think. Even Adversary said he wants Hulk to talk more. I think we'd all like to see both Bruce and Hulk (who, interesting in his own right as he is, IS also a part of Bruce and therefore an important piece of understanding Bruce and his issues) get more development.

 

[terry78]

Ironically in the cartoons he's always Hulk but in live action he's mostly Banner. They know the kids want to see him Hulked out constantly.

 

[Farren]

Ironically in the cartoons he's always Hulk but in live action he's mostly Banner. They know the kids want to see him Hulked out constantly.

I tend to think it might be an issue of the different medium. Maybe it's easier (or believed to be easier) for people to accept a nonverbal rage monster than fully characterized verbal one in live action.

Although I think you're also right about the kids liking Hulk. He's easier to relate to than an adult nuclear physicist. He gets mad and throws tantrums, has difficulty expressing why he's angry, and is often misunderstood because of these things. I'm sure Stan must have had this in mind in the old days (although it took a few issues for this aspect to emerge iirc).