Sandman

[Anti-Venom]

Having Venom and Sandman together also meant that Peter NEEDED Harry to come back. He knew he couldn't take both of them on. If you cut out Sandman, Peter doesn't have nearly as much of a need for Harry. That's the main thing.
That's why I say make the movie 30 minutes longer, and it works A LOT better.

I see now that Venom can only be introduced at the climax. It was the only way to do it. Unavoidable...
The tough thing about Venom is that he has a really long origin story. They made the right call by making the movie more about Peter's experience with the symbiote than Brock's. It makes sense that he struggles with the suit for a long time and then has to get rid of it before the climax.

The symbiote becomes a symbol of Peter's pride, which almost destroys his relationships with MJ and Harry. That's what the movie is about. So it makes sense that for the climax, he would actually fight the symbiote...Venom.

As a stand-alone movie, this is all great and it makes sense. The only reason it's a shame is that Venom is such a memorable character from the comics.

 

[IamProdigy]

I was thinking the writers shouldn't have put in sandman in it at all, and focused more on Venom.

You do know you're just lucky that you saw Venom, right? Venom wasn't even gonna be in it.

 

[tyler-durden]

I'm just thinging that venom got crapped on, considering how big a villain to spiderman he is in the comics

 

[SKSpawn]

I dunno, I'm all for how Raimi made you care about Sandman and how he was a grey character; a guy trying to do the best he can but with bad luck...

But having said that, I don't think he should have killed Uncle Ben. I've been thinking lately that maybe it would've been better to have had Sandman inadvertandly put Aunt May in a coma instead, or something, give Peter more rage to go on because he would have almost lost his last living reletive, rather than fighting for the one he already lost and technically avanged.

But Sandman was kewl, just he kinda disappeared for a good chunk of the movie because they cut out some scenes of him. I think Venom could have had more prominance, more menace and more screen time but that could easily have been fixed by making the film a bit longer, just to show more of Eddie Brock learning the symbiotes abilities and the duality between the two.

 

[tyler-durden]

not even have been longer just cut the crap, like peter strolling down the street to disco music, LAME!!!

 

[chaseter]

Sandman really wasn't needed. The forced connection between him and Peter felt akward. And after he tries to kill Spider-Man, killed his uncle, allowed his best friend to die after teaming up with Venom, etc...and he says "Oops...sorry" and it's over. His daughter, the only humanizing part of Sandman that is suppose to make us feel bad for him and his struggle was in the movie 1 minute.

 

[NinjaCarm]

Sandman really wasn't needed. The forced connection between him and Peter felt akward. And after he tries to kill Spider-Man, killed his uncle, allowed his best friend to die after teaming up with Venom, etc...and he says "Oops...sorry" and it's over. His daughter, the only humanizing part of Sandman that is suppose to make us feel bad for him and his struggle was in the movie 1 minute.

Three villians weren't needed. Venom - for the popular character that he is - deserved to be the main villian in a separate Spider-Man film, perhaps with a second rate villian.

Sandman was cool. His presence was lacking because of having another popular character - Venom.

Doesn't mean the movie is bad. Just means it stuggled with potential - the potential for two separate cool ass films.

 

[IamProdigy]

I'm just thinging that venom got crapped on, considering how big a villain to spiderman he is in the comics

You need to read some comics...Venom isn't as big as Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Lizard, etc.

Venom only had one good storyline...yes, the symbiote, imo, was a good idea for many things, but Venom, since had, has never had any good storylines since.

 

[HCpride]

I'm confused, you guys are right Sandman was so not needed, Venom himself should have been the villain by himself, what were the writers thinking.

what they hell are you thinking saying such a dumb thought
venom sucks,i dont get why everyone loves him so much
you say sandman wasnt needed? then what fuels peters rage?

 

[Arcturus]

I'm confused, you guys are right Sandman was so not needed, Venom himself should have been the villain by himself, what were the writers thinking.

I agree 110% with you.

 

[kward711]

well, Sandman was a villain that Raimi really wanted. Ever since the first draft of the script, Sandman was Uncle Ben's killer and had a family he needed money for. Originally he was supposed to help the Vulture escape so they could get Spider-Man but once they changed it to Venom they had Sandman help Venom at the end.

And Flint had a doctor that was cut out of the film. Sandman could have had an even deeper character if Venom was cut out.

Venom is an awesome villain but for the movie, Sandman has a deeper character with greater emotion.

 

[tyler-durden]

I would have been cool with there being no symbiote and sandman but the symbiote means there will be Venom , and I think venom should have had been the villian in part 4, with the symbiote being the suprise at the end of 3.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

As I said before, without Sandman, then the revenge storyline wouldn't be as good as it would be with Sandman. Peter wants revenge on Flint Marko/Sandman for accidentally shooting his Uncle Ben, but Aunt May says that revenge is like a poison and that it can turn us into something ugly. If Sandman wasn't in it, then it would be just Harry forgiving Peter for the death of Norman Osborn. Sandman makes it so that Peter learns a lesson as well, which is not to let revenge take over.

 

[tyler-durden]

Then I think Venom should have been left out to be the viilain of a different spiderman film. Sandman was more than enough fo spiderman where he was going to need hepl.

 

[Stevens25]

as funny as hell. It's the dance in the jazz club that

not even have been longer just cut the crap, like peter strolling down the street to disco music, LAME!!!

I really liked that. I thought that was funny as hell! It's the jazz club dance that really bothered me.

 

[tyler-durden]

some of it was just useless, I wonder if any one has tried to make a better cut of it, that doesn't sm weird.

 

[Sam Fisher]

I love the smell of fanboys fighting in the morning

 

[Vile]

Sandman having some characterization that made sense would have been nice besides "I'm an idiot who makes really, really, really stupid choices. Feel bad for me. Not working? Look! I have a kid with tubes up her nose on crutches! See? Thats makes it okie dokie for me to, ya know, rob banks and shoot old men."

Now if Raimi had made Flint mildly ******ed, I could have felt for him. Sadly, he's not so...he's just an idiot.

Unneeded? Very much so.

 

[drmick]

There was a big 10 page thread here when the film 1st came out about how Sandman was the most pointlesss villian in the film.

Which he was, as it was he who had the most scenes cut to shorten the film.

 

[drmick]

There was a big 10 page thread here when the film 1st came out about how Sandman was the most pointlesss villian in the film.

Which he was, as it was he who had the most scenes cut to shorten the film.

I have just bumped that thread!

 

[HCpride]

Sandman having some characterization that made sense would have been nice besides "I'm an idiot who makes really, really, really stupid choices. Feel bad for me. Not working? Look! I have a kid with tubes up her nose on crutches! See? Thats makes it okie dokie for me to, ya know, rob banks and shoot old men."

Now if Raimi had made Flint mildly ******ed, I could have felt for him. Sadly, he's not so...he's just an idiot.

Unneeded? Very much so.

youre looking at it the wrong way
he had the right intention,just went about it the wrong way

 

[Stevens25]

It also doesn't feel like he fit in this film. The movie is all about darkness,revenge and anger(obviously,the film wasn't as dark as it could've been). Now eventually,it was about forgiveness too,but Sandman is a really sympathetic villain,at least in this film. He didn't fit in a movie in which Peter,Harry and Eddie all were fighting or giving into their darkside and their thirst for revenge.

 

[calibud]

He didn't fit in a movie in which Peter,Harry and Eddie all were fighting or giving into their darkside and their thirst for revenge.

But Sandman was Peter's reason for vengeance. If it weren't for that silly ret-con of Flint being Ben's killer, there would've been no real motivation for the emergence of Peter's dark side.
Besides, the film has much more to do with forgiveness than inner duality. Harry never forgave (or bothered to listen to) Peter for Norman's death, Eddie blamed Peter for everything that happened to him following his outing at the Bugle, and Peter couldn't forgive Sandman for what he thought was the cold-blooded murder of his uncle. During pre-production, Eddie wasn't even introduced into the story until after they decided to use the symbiote as the reason for Peter's extreme grudge against Sandman. In the context of the film, Sandman is a better fit in the story than Venom, though not Harry, even if Venom is a much cooler character.

 

[Vile]

youre looking at it the wrong way
he had the right intention,just went about it the wrong way

I realize this but for me, it didnt make him a sympathetic villian - like I said, just an idiot.

It almost seemed Raimi built the character for 9 year olds with such a overly simplistic motivation. "I want to do good, but gosh darn it I just keep doing bad things! Doh!"

Dont even get me started on the whole "Don't move, Gramps! I got ya covered!" "Hey Flint!" "AAH!" *blam* "Oh NOES!!!1111!!!"

 

[The Joker]

I realize this but for me, it didnt make him a sympathetic villian - like I said, just an idiot.

Why is he an idiot to break the law to try and save his daughter's life? Would you not steal money to save your kid if you could not get it by honest methods?

I'm not saying what Sandman did was morally right, but you can understand his plight.