Saw it yesterday and felt that it was decent. The last Saw movie was beyond awful so anything would have been a step up.
I'm glad that it sorta flopped though (yes I know it's going to make some money but is it going to be enough money to release the next one in theaters. 14.8mil is a long ways off the opening of the last one) because I don't want them to make anymore. The series should just end already.
No, it really didn't flop. I think the strong word of mouth it has will ultimately help push its money intake. It was going against a horror film that had an insane amount of hype to it. The fact that it still did as good as it did shows that some of the audience is still there.
Either strong legs will help it or DVD sales will help it. Either way it's going to make its money back.
Besides Saw 7 has already been confirmed and starts shooting next year.
Another thing I forgot. They don't explain why Hoffman wanted Lynn dead. Granted he threatened to tell Jigsaw what Amanda did to Jill because of Cecil. But there had to be a reason as to why Hoffman wanted Lynn dead and not because of Cecil or Amanda.
Hoffman wanted Amanda out of the picture. By blackmailing Amanda and telling her to kill Lynn, not only would she fail her test, but there would also be a good chance that Lynn's husband would kill Amanda in return. Which is exactly what did happen. Hoffman had nothing against Lynn personally. She was just a tool he used to get Amanda out of the game.
But the real question here is;
How did Hoffman even know that Amanda was with Cecil the night he killed Jill's baby??
It was $5 movie night at the theater so I decided to catch this based on the good buzz. I gotta admit, I'm fairly impressed and I can't say I've particularly liked any of these since II, and for the first time since II I am excited for the next one.
I'm sort of curious as to what comes next. If Jigsaw's test of Hoffman was successful he won't go after Jill...but something tells me he will and it may lead to his demise. Through out the movie there was talk about who the "game master," is. And this movie showed Hoffman's struggles to become it. From disposing of Amanda to finally passing a test, Hoffman has emerged as the game master but has he really learned anything? Some how I doubt it. I maintain that there is someone out there who is the true game master. I'd like to believe it is Gordon, but I think the constant mentioning of him is a red herring.
Hoffman wanted Amanda out of the picture. By blackmailing Amanda and telling her to kill Lynn, not only would she fail her test, but there would also be a good chance that Lynn's husband would kill Amanda in return. Which is exactly what did happen. Hoffman had nothing against Lynn personally. She was just a tool he used to get Amanda out of the game.
But the real question here is;
How did Hoffman even know that Amanda was with Cecil the night he killed Jill's baby??
Maybe Detective Kerry told him or it was one of those rare instances where Strahm provided information to him? Either way it's a plot hole that will need explaining.
I wonder if Hoffman told Amanda to kill Troy, Adam, and Kerry too?
Hoffman wanted Amanda to kill Lynn because that would've resulted in Jeff killing Lynn and Amanda dying, he wanted her out of the way.
Hoffman's alive, but he's screwed. He's mutilated and his identity has been exposed.
The tape/letter dropped off at the doctor's office is almost guaranteed to be for Gordon, what other character at a doctor's office could possibly be so secretive?
"The thing about the Saw franchise that irritates me is that Lionsgate keeps pounding them out one by one. Where the first movie was an intriguing one-off movie the ones just keep getting repetitive and more contrived."
Ridiculous and pretty blatantly false criticism.
Of course Jigsaw's methods aren't going to become completely totally different from film to film. He's always going to be a morality tale serial killer.
That said, they've centered a film around only two men locked in an isolated area with occasional flashbacks to the events that led them there and what's happening to people related to them outside the room, Jigsaw is hardly in that film at all other being an ominous presence on tapes (he was there the whole time, but that isn't revealed until the end); in SAW II he's front and center the entire time interacting with a victim first hand and the game involves a very large group of people maneuvering around an entire building, which is a drastically different set up from the first film; in SAW III we get to know someone that he's training to follow in his footsteps and Jeff's test is again completely different from what we seen in SAW and SAW II with his internal conflict whether or not to save those he's faced with that have wronged him; SAW IV is the first film to show us what happens post-Jigsaw and it introduces the running theme of the second trilogy, which is Jigsaw's methods of "salvation" conflicting with those of the cops, which was never much of a factor in the first trilogy, it also gave a very unique backstory showing John turn from philanthropist to serial killer once he came to believe the he was "saving" before was too easy; V may have some simialarity to II in that involves trap house victims, but it also spends a great deal of time characterizing another apprentice who turns from the justice system to Jigsaw's methods in a drastically different way than the previous apprentice was developed; and SAW VI dives head into the realm of social commentary, which this series had not done yet, and while the previous apprentice storyline was meant to build up sympathy for what Amanda had gone through, the second trilogy turns Hoffman into a tremendous love to hate character, which they never really went out of their way to do with either of the previous villains.
They're about as close to being "all the same" as Terminator and T2 are the same because both have cyborgs in them, or Alien and Aliens are because they both have Xenomorphs in them, or any movie with the Predator character in it is the same because people get hunted in them...
Hoffman wanted Amanda to kill Lynn because that would've resulted in Jeff killing Lynn and Amanda dying, he wanted her out of the way.
Hoffman's alive, but he's screwed. He's mutilated and his identity has been exposed.
The tape/letter dropped off at the doctor's office is almost guaranteed to be for Gordon, what other character at a doctor's office could possibly be so secretive?
"The thing about the Saw franchise that irritates me is that Lionsgate keeps pounding them out one by one. Where the first movie was an intriguing one-off movie the ones just keep getting repetitive and more contrived."
Ridiculous and pretty blatantly false criticism.
Of course Jigsaw's methods aren't going to become completely totally different from film to film. He's always going to be a morality tale serial killer.
That said, they've centered a film around only two men locked in an isolated area with occasional flashbacks to the events that led them there and what's happening to people related to them outside the room, Jigsaw is hardly in that film at all other being an ominous presence on tapes (he was there the whole time, but that isn't revealed until the end); in SAW II he's front and center the entire time interacting with a victim first hand and the game involves a very large group of people maneuvering around an entire building, which is a drastically different set up from the first film; in SAW III we get to know someone that he's training to follow in his footsteps and Jeff's test is again completely different from what we seen in SAW and SAW II with his internal conflict whether or not to save those he's faced with that have wronged him; SAW IV is the first film to show us what happens post-Jigsaw and it introduces the running theme of the second trilogy, which is Jigsaw's methods of "salvation" conflicting with those of the cops, which was never much of a factor in the first trilogy, it also gave a very unique backstory showing John turn from philanthropist to serial killer once he came to believe the he was "saving" before was too easy; V may have some simialarity to II in that involves trap house victims, but it also spends a great deal of time characterizing another apprentice who turns from the justice system to Jigsaw's methods in a drastically different way than the previous apprentice was developed; and SAW VI dives head into the realm of social commentary, which this series had not done yet, and while the previous apprentice storyline was meant to build up sympathy for what Amanda had gone through, the second trilogy turns Hoffman into a tremendous love to hate character, which they never really went out of their way to do with either of the previous villains.
They're about as close to being "all the same" as Terminator and T2 are the same because both have cyborgs in them, or Alien and Aliens are because they both have Xenomorphs in them, or any the Predator character in it is the same because people get hunted in them...
Not really. Because he planted Strahm's prints at the scene of the crime and he killed Erickson, Perez, and the lab technician. Other than that there isn't anyone who knows about him being Jigsaw's accomplice except for Jill. So Hoffman is pretty much free to do as he pleases again since Jill doesn't have any proof that he did any of those things.
Not really. Because he planted Strahm's prints at the scene of the crime and he killed Erickson, Perez, and the lab technician. Other than that there isn't anyone who knows about him being Jigsaw's accomplice except for Jill. So Hoffman is pretty much free to do as he pleases again since Jill doesn't have any proof that he did any of those things.
#1 the police, as Erickson informed him, already knew that those fingerprints were placed at crime scenes at a time when Strahm was already dead. Erickson doesn't work alone, if he knew, other cops knew it.
#2 Perez informed Hoffman that "EVERYONE" knows who he is, I'm sure she'd informed co-workers of her suspicions of Hoffman...top that off with her and Erickson just happening to die, and he has alot of explaining to do of things he has no answers for.
#3 John told Hoffman he had incriminating evidence against him that was "right where it needed to be," we saw Jill drop off an envelope...
#1 the police, as Erickson informed him, already knew that those fingerprints were placed at crime scenes at a time when Strahm was already dead. Erickson doesn't work alone, if he knew, other cops knew it.
#2 Perez informed Hoffman that "EVERYONE" knows who he is, I'm sure she'd informed co-workers of her suspicions of Hoffman...top that off with her and Erickson just happening to die, and he has alot of explaining to do of things he has no answers for.
#3 John told Hoffman he had incriminating evidence against him that was "right where it needed to be," we saw Jill drop off an envelope...
Hoffman calls Perez a liar though. It makes you wonder because if they truley did suspect Hoffman of being jigsaw why were they so unprepared for his attack? He slaughtered them. Why didn't they have a team watching the building?
And really, they are liars. They lied about Perez's death.
They weren't unprepared. Caught off guard, maybe, but the whole time Hoffman was pacing the room both Perez and Erikson were gripping their pistols in the holsters getting ready to draw. The vibe I got from that scene was that they already knew and took him to the lab to confront him with what Erikson continuously called the 'smoking gun.' Unfortunately, they underestimated him and he was quick.
It was $5 movie night at the theater so I decided to catch this based on the good buzz. I gotta admit, I'm fairly impressed and I can't say I've particularly liked any of these since II, and for the first time since II I am excited for the next one.
I'm sort of curious as to what comes next. If Jigsaw's test of Hoffman was successful he won't go after Jill...but something tells me he will and it may lead to his demise. Through out the movie there was talk about who the "game master," is. And this movie showed Hoffman's struggles to become it. From disposing of Amanda to finally passing a test, Hoffman has emerged as the game master but has he really learned anything? Some how I doubt it. I maintain that there is someone out there who is the true game master. I'd like to believe it is Gordon, but I think the constant mentioning of him is a red herring.
It was $5 movie night at the theater so I decided to catch this based on the good buzz. I gotta admit, I'm fairly impressed and I can't say I've particularly liked any of these since II, and for the first time since II I am excited for the next one.
I'm sort of curious as to what comes next. If Jigsaw's test of Hoffman was successful he won't go after Jill...but something tells me he will and it may lead to his demise. Through out the movie there was talk about who the "game master," is. And this movie showed Hoffman's struggles to become it. From disposing of Amanda to finally passing a test, Hoffman has emerged as the game master but has he really learned anything? Some how I doubt it. I maintain that there is someone out there who is the true game master. I'd like to believe it is Gordon, but I think the constant mentioning of him is a red herring.
That's a very good question. Has he learned everything. Don't know, we'll see. But I think if he did, the game will be completely his, because he's already got a will to live that is stronger than maybe any other character in this series.
And for me this is the first time I strongly look forward to the next Saw movie immediately since the original. I heavily looked forward to Saw II, but thought it was good but not as good as part 1, and then I really liked saw III but thought it should have been the last one at the time. IV i didn't like when I first saw it, and then V i liked but didn't start anticipating VI until a few weeks ago. I'm already anticipating Saw VII.
Hoffman takes the Jigsaw philosophy in a new direction. After asking the woman who hacked her arm off what she learned, and her flipping out, it seemed obvious that Hoffman would question the overall technique and now alter it to his own image. And with him surviving, why not explore new ground?
The only thing I didn't really enjoy was the fact that
Jill went along with everything so easily. Either she really didn't have too guilty a conscience about things or, in simple terms, love makes you do some crazy ****.
Also,
Amanda's letter was found at the crime scene when Jigsaw died, but how did the reporter get it exactly? Did she sneak in or did she bribe someone for it, as I would figure it would be evidence.
That's a very good question. Has he learned everything. Don't know, we'll see. But I think if he did, the game will be completely his, because he's already got a will to live that is stronger than maybe any other character in this series.
And for me this is the first time I strongly look forward to the next Saw movie immediately since the original. I heavily looked forward to Saw II, but thought it was good but not as good as part 1, and then I really liked saw III but thought it should have been the last one at the time. IV i didn't like when I first saw it, and then V i liked but didn't start anticipating VI until a few weeks ago. I'm already anticipating Saw VII.
Hoffman definitely has the will to survive but lets look at some of the things we know about Hoffman...He's killed people who don't necessarily deserve it in order to protect himself. Hell, he basically murdered Amanda to secure his position as "game master." He has threatened Jill. Jigsaw tested Hoffman because he saw that brutality in him that he exhibited through out Saw VI. I can't help but think John has yet another contingency in place, just in case Hoffman does not learn from his lesson. There is no way he would leave both his work and Jill's life in the hands of Hoffman who went untested during John's life. Remember, John promised Jill a "way out," when it was all over. Hoffman, assuming he did not learn, will undoubtedly want revenge. I doubt John would leave Jill's life to the chance that Hoffman learned his lesson. So what is John's way out for her? Gotta think there is a third apprentice who promised to protect Jill from Hoffman if neccessary. But who could this apprentice be? They want us to think Lawrence Gordon, but I dunno. Somehow I doubt it. I think he's a red-herring. Crazy, out of left field guess.....Pamela. Not sure why, just a guess.
They weren't unprepared. Caught off guard, maybe, but the whole time Hoffman was pacing the room both Perez and Erikson were gripping their pistols in the holsters getting ready to draw. The vibe I got from that scene was that they already knew and took him to the lab to confront him with what Erikson continuously called the 'smoking gun.' Unfortunately, they underestimated him and he was quick.
Yeah, they weren't prepared and they weren't sure if it was him. They didn't know it was him until his voice became unscrambled during the analysis and that's when he slaughtered them. He definitely was quick because they didn't see that coming.
That was one of my favorite sequences too. The overall feel of the scene was intense because you knew something was going to happen, you just didn't know what. Hoffman went all kinds of badass on them in that room.
But he already went against the Jigsaw beliefs. Jigsaw hated murderers and Hoffman is murderer who killed for his own gain.
My idea for Saw VII?
I think
They should set it two or three years after Hoffman is tested. You can see Hoffman still seething with bitterness, hatred, and is still testing numerous victims while tracking Jill. I doubt the audience would believe that Hoffman could heal from such an brutal injury that quick.
Hoffman definitely has the will to survive but lets look at some of the things we know about Hoffman...He's killed people who don't necessarily deserve it in order to protect himself. Hell, he basically murdered Amanda to secure his position as "game master." He has threatened Jill. Jigsaw tested Hoffman because he saw that brutality in him that he exhibited through out Saw VI. I can't help but think John has yet another contingency in place, just in case Hoffman does not learn from his lesson. There is no way he would leave both his work and Jill's life in the hands of Hoffman who went untested during John's life. Remember, John promised Jill a "way out," when it was all over. Hoffman, assuming he did not learn, will undoubtedly want revenge. I doubt John would leave Jill's life to the chance that Hoffman learned his lesson. So what is John's way out for her? Gotta think there is a third apprentice who promised to protect Jill from Hoffman if neccessary. But who could this apprentice be? They want us to think Lawrence Gordon, but I dunno. Somehow I doubt it. I think he's a red-herring. Crazy, out of left field guess.....Pamela. Not sure why, just a guess.
I think Pamela would be too bitter and thirsty for revenge after watching her brother die the way he did. I'd like to believe that all the Gordon references are for a reason. I mean if he's dead just show the body or have one of the officers say "We found the body of the missing Dr. Gordon.". It would put all the Gordon theories to rest and it would provide closure to his story.
Hoffman is definitely going to want revenge. I think we'll see a new and a more vicious Hoffman in Saw 7.
I think Pamela would be too bitter and thirsty for revenge after watching her brother die the way he did. I'd like to believe that all the Gordon references are for a reason. I mean if he's dead just show the body or have one of the officers say "We found the body of the missing Dr. Gordon.". It would put all the Gordon theories to rest and it would provide closure to his story.
Hoffman is definitely going to want revenge. I think we'll see a new and a more vicious Hoffman in Saw 7.
Assuming your theory is correct, John will have a third apprentice to protect Jill then and finish off Hoffman just in case, then to carry on his work. Who is the third apprentice? Dr. Gordon as a redherring just makes the most sense. It is so obvious at this point that it can't be true. That's what makes me think it is Pamela. Of course, that would mean she was in on the game that killed her brother.
Here are some Gordon clues that I think everyone should consider. All these references to him shouldn't be a red herring.
1. Adam makes mention on how Gordon seems to acknowledge Jigsaw's genius and how he is two-three steps ahead of his test subjects.
2. The hooded figure limping/dragging his right foot in Saw 2 while performing surgery on Michael's eye. As you recall Jigsaw is not limping in Saw 1, 2, or 3. In fact he's still getting around pretty good with the cancer making him weaker physically.
It would take a very well trained surgeon to open someones eye lid and placing a key inside, also add in that the person stitched it up neatly.
Kerry's trap would require medical knowledge and so would Rex/Morgan's trap with the rods going through vital arteries. It would take a doctor to know where to put the rods without killing both people.
3. All the X-Rays that were shown in Michael's situation and where the X-Ray showed that William's key was inside of him.
4. The Jigsaw pieces were cut with surgical precision.
5. Hoffman isn't a ninja or can he be in two places at once. Someone helped him abduct Strahm the first time, someone helped him abduct the test subjects in Saw 5 and Saw 6. Jigsaw is dead, Amanda is dead, and Jill definitely wasn't helping him. I don't think Pamela would willingly get involved in kidnapping her brother knowing he would possibly die.
6. I remember reading in the early script drafts for Saw 5, there was a scene where Hoffman looks at a picture of Gordon and states "The game is in your hands now."
7. They never found his body and knowing he cut his foot off he couldn't have gotten far since Jigsaw left the bathroom not long afterwards. If the girl who cut her arm off could survive then it also strengthens the possibility of Gordon living too.
8. Gordon said to Adam he would send someone back for him. Not too long after that Amanda came in and killed him. But I like to think that was more of a mercy kill than Gordon saying anything if he is an accomplice.
9. Usually when Jigsaw abducts a subject he takes everything in terms of checking their pockets and making sure they have nothing on them. When Strahm was captured his knife, gun, and cell phone was from his reach. The only thing that was left on him was a pen and Hoffman was too busy making sure that Strahm was locked in the room with Jigsaw, Amanda, Jeff, and Lynn, plus he went to go "save" Corbett from her situation. Who kidnapped Strahm? The trap was intended to kill Strahm the first time and I doubt Hoffman would've left a pen for Strahm to use.
Once again Hoffman isn't a ninja and he can't be in two places at once. So he had help or Jigsaw had some extra back-up should Hoffman go against the rules.
Gordon is a surgeon after all. Of course it would be Doctor who was at Jigsaw's autopsy. But somehow I doubt it would be him due to all the clues pointing to Gordon's involvement.
One more thing I wanted to ask. What was the worst death in your opinion?
I have to say I would hate to die the way William did. In my mind I was thinking Strahm's death was the worst. But to have say that needles/i.v.'s piercing your skin and injecting acid just sends chills. It's somewat of a quick death, but it was also a slow one as well.
One more thing I wanted to ask. What was the worst death in your opinion?
I have to say I would hate to die the way William did. In my mind I was thinking Strahm's death was the worst. But to have say that needles/i.v.'s piercing your skin and injecting acid just sends chills. It's somewat of a quick death, but it was also a slow one as well.
Here are some Gordon clues that I think everyone should consider. All these references to him shouldn't be a red herring.
1. Adam makes mention on how Gordon seems to acknowledge Jigsaw's genius and how he is two-three steps ahead of his test subjects.
2. The hooded figure limping/dragging his right foot in Saw 2 while performing surgery on Michael's eye. As you recall Jigsaw is not limping in Saw 1, 2, or 3. In fact he's still getting around pretty good with the cancer making him weaker physically.
It would take a very well trained surgeon to open someones eye lid and placing a key inside, also add in that the person stitched it up neatly.
Kerry's trap would require medical knowledge and so would Rex/Morgan's trap with the rods going through vital arteries. It would take a doctor to know where to put the rods without killing both people.
3. All the X-Rays that were shown in Michael's situation and where the X-Ray showed that William's key was inside of him.
4. The Jigsaw pieces were cut with surgical precision.
5. Hoffman isn't a ninja or can he be in two places at once. Someone helped him abduct Strahm the first time, someone helped him abduct the test subjects in Saw 5 and Saw 6. Jigsaw is dead, Amanda is dead, and Jill definitely wasn't helping him. I don't think Pamela would willingly get involved in kidnapping her brother knowing he would possibly die.
6. I remember reading in the early script drafts for Saw 5, there was a scene where Hoffman looks at a picture of Gordon and states "The game is in your hands now."
7. They never found his body and knowing he cut his foot off he couldn't have gotten far since Jigsaw left the bathroom not long afterwards. If the girl who cut her arm off could survive then it also strengthens the possibility of Gordon living too.
8. Gordon said to Adam he would send someone back for him. Not too long after that Amanda came in and killed him. But I like to think that was more of a mercy kill than Gordon saying anything if he is an accomplice.
9. Usually when Jigsaw abducts a subject he takes everything in terms of checking their pockets and making sure they have nothing on them. When Strahm was captured his knife, gun, and cell phone was from his reach. The only thing that was left on him was a pen and Hoffman was too busy making sure that Strahm was locked in the room with Jigsaw, Amanda, Jeff, and Lynn, plus he went to go "save" Corbett from her situation. Who kidnapped Strahm? The trap was intended to kill Strahm the first time and I doubt Hoffman would've left a pen for Strahm to use.
Once again Hoffman isn't a ninja and he can't be in two places at once. So he had help or Jigsaw had some extra back-up should Hoffman go against the rules.
Gordon is a surgeon after all. Of course it would be Doctor who was at Jigsaw's autopsy. But somehow I doubt it would be him due to all the clues pointing to Gordon's involvement.
Everything you just described is the definition of red herring. Little vague references and clues (I say vague because notice how much your theory relies on your own speculation?) that are meant to make the viewer believe the plot is going one way when in reality it is going another. The producers are aware of how much the fans want Elwes back, that is why they keep teasing Doctor Gordon. It creates a natural red herring just by saying his name.
But every time Elwes is asked in an interview if he is returning, he straight out says "No." Not a clever half denial, not a no with a wink to the camera, not even adding "but anything's possible in the future." Just a straight no. Elwes had to sue the producers for goodness sakes to get his full cut from the movie. Whether they settled or not, they tried to keep money that they agreed to pay him from him (at least from his perspective, none of us know the whole story). Do you really think he wants to work for them again?
Everything you just described is the definition of red herring. Little vague references and clues (I say vague because notice how much your theory relies on your own speculation?) that are meant to make the viewer believe the plot is going one way when in reality it is going another. The producers are aware of how much the fans want Elwes back, that is why they keep teasing Doctor Gordon. It creates a natural red herring just by saying his name.
But every time Elwes is asked in an interview if he is returning, he straight out says "No." Not a clever half denial, not a no with a wink to the camera, not even adding "but anything's possible in the future." Just a straight no. Elwes had to sue the producers for goodness sakes to get his full cut from the movie. Whether they settled or not, they tried to keep money that they agreed to pay him from him (at least from his perspective, none of us know the whole story). Do you really think he wants to work for them again?
Actually, Cary Elwes said before the dispute was settled and he would love to return to the Saw franchise. Did you know that Donnie Wahlberg said he wouldn't return due to money/creative differences for Saw 3? Look what happened there.
I'm not saying that it will happen for sure. But all of these references can't be for nothing now, however, if they are then so be it.
One more thing I wanted to ask. What was the worst death in your opinion?
I have to say I would hate to die the way William did. In my mind I was thinking Strahm's death was the worst. But to have say that needles/i.v.'s piercing your skin and injecting acid just sends chills. It's somewat of a quick death, but it was also a slow one as well.
I actually think that the Janitor/Caretakers's death was the worst way to go. Watching that scene almost gave me an anxiety attack. Just the concept that you can't breathe. If you breathe, you die. And there's only so long you can hold your breath before you're gasping for precious air. Followed of course, by the agonizing pain of having your rib cage crushed. Great trap.
But also the game at the beginning with the loan sharks. Having to hack off your own body parts! The actual death wasn't that bad (the drills in the temples), but all I think as that guy cut piece after piece of his fat off of his stomach, was that even if he won the game, he'd probably die of infection later anyway! lol
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