Scream 5 in Development

[Doctor Jones]

Spoiler

The killers in this were obsessive fans of the Stab movie franchise. They were so unhappy that they didn’t get the kind of movie they wanted with the last Stab, which became their twisted reasoning for these new killings — to help steer the franchise back to what they liked and wanted to see. Deranged entitlement is 100% an implication there. It is clear as day. BatLobster nailed it on the head with how we see this in fandom all the time. You as a mod here obviously see this all the time with superhero movie fans. Everyone has their own preferences for what they like to see with their favorite franchises, and are unhappy when things don’t line up with their preconceived notions or preferences. They blame the studios, filmmakers, writers, actors, etc. The “fans” in this new movie took their love for horror movies too far — just as Billy and Stu did.

Did you need Richie to say the word “entitled” to drive that concept home?

How is Jill “wanting to be special” and feeling jealous of her cousin (who became famous for being a murder victim while Jill was a little kid) any stronger of a motivation? Or Mickey, who was already a killer before meeting Mrs Loomis, wanting to go to trial and blame the movies for his crimes?

All of the Ghostface killers have had irrational desires and twisted viewpoints of themselves and the world around them, blaming other people (Sidney) or things (movies) for their actions. The new motives here are right in line with that.

Spoiler

Because they don't tell what the deeper motive for why like revenge or fame. Those motives do. Not seeing a movie and being unhappy with it can be part of it, the warped view, but that doesn't make someone snap. It doesn't justify going on a Machiavellian killing spree. I can't speak to entitlement because the rest of the movie isn't indicating this. There's nothing connecting to that. The meta scene at the Meeks house mentions the crazed fan angle as is, and it stops there. That's surface level and the difference between that and the others is that it wasn't. There's no real thru line to indicate entitlement in the movie. I guess it's technically entitlement of these crazed fans, but an implication isn't what makes a movie when the other movies used the motivation as the thematic point of their movies. And the rest of this movie is also this sister estrangement story and Billy being the father of Sam. That secret doesn't really align with they were thematically exploring. I just don't know what the exact theme of this movie is. It just seems a hodge podge of Scream like elements but never really coalesces.

 

[fan4stic]

Completely agree. This felt like it was bringing the whole franchise full circle.

Spoiler

It all starts with a couple of deranged movie fans who took their love of scary movies too far. This is taking that original motivation and updating it to our times and very specifically the state of modern fandom. I think it's very clever. And it's different than Charlie in Scream 4. He loved all the Stab movies, even the bad ones. This is the first time we've gotten into how protective fans can be of their favorite franchises and the dark places that goes. It felt right for this franchise to go there.

Spoiler

That wasn't the main killer's motivation though. Every villain has a motive, that is really just them choosing to do bad things as a response to something. That doesn't change that the motive exists and gives the characters something. Pointless trite fandom discourse isn't what these movies have ever been about. I think it doesn't mean anything for any of the characters. It might as well just be a random slasher movie if the villain is gonna have such a pointless motive that isn't, as far as I've heard, connected to the characters, as far as I think.

 

[The Shape]

Spoiler

Because they don't tell what the deeper motive for why like revenge or fame. Those motives do. Not seeing a movie and being unhappy with it can be part of it, the warped view, but that doesn't make someone snap. It doesn't justify going on a Machiavellian killing spree. I can't speak to entitlement because the rest of the movie isn't indicating this. There's nothing connecting to that. The meta scene at the Meeks house mentions the crazed fan angle as is, and it stops there. That's surface level and the difference between that and the others is that it wasn't. There's no real thru line to indicate entitlement in the movie. I guess it's technically entitlement of these crazed fans, but an implication isn't what makes a movie when the other movies used the motivation as the thematic point of their movies. And the rest of this movie is also this sister estrangement story and Billy being the father of Sam. That secret doesn't really align with they were thematically exploring. I just don't know what the exact theme of this movie is. It just seems a hodge podge of Scream like elements but never really coalesces.

Spoiler

It wasn’t just “seeing a movie and not being happy with it”. The other key part is that they are completely obsessive fans, obsessed with that particular franchise. I’m not sure how much else could have been spelled out about this. Their obsession eventually lead them to plan and start this killing spree. There doesn’t need to be a deeper motive than that. Obsession can drive people to do a lot of crazy things. People have snapped for much less.

It’s something that is clearly true to life. People have committed murder and claimed that they were obsessed or inspired by movies or characters. A president was shot and almost killed because a crazy man wanted to impress a movie actress he was obsessed with. Crazy people do crazy things and take their obsessions too far.

We’re literally talking on a forum now where some people spend nearly all of their time posting about and reading about the movies and characters they love and are, in some cases, obsessed with. The theme or motive of obsession fandom gone too far is no less silly or unrealistic than wanting revenge to killing to get famous somehow. Amber tries to save her own ass by indicating she was radicalized online, but something like that is probably exactly what happened to her and could happen to someone who spends all of their time online obsessing over something with other like-minded individuals.

Their plan to make a requel that ties a new cast of characters into the legacy characters is exactly what this movie is doing and therefore commenting on. It’s impossible to make all fans happy these days with existing franchises. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on all this.

 

[The Shape]

Spoiler

That wasn't the main killer's motivation though. Every villain has a motive, that is really just them choosing to do bad things as a response to something. That doesn't change that the motive exists and gives the characters something. Pointless trite fandom discourse isn't what these movies have ever been about. I think it doesn't mean anything for any of the characters. It might as well just be a random slasher movie if the villain is gonna have such a pointless motive that isn't, as far as I've heard, connected to the characters, as far as I think.

There is no one person or thing to blame for these killer’s actions, in any of the films. More often than not, the killer’s stated “motivations” are simply their own justifications or excuses for why they chose to kill people. Billy Loomis blaming Maureen Prescott for his mom leaving doesn’t explain the well-planned killing spree a year later, dressing up in a Halloween costume, using only a knife to kill, the creepy phone calls taunting his victims, picking off his friends and classmates one by one, etc. He did all that because he was obsessed with and inspired by horror movies and because he was a psychopath. Plain and simple.

Also, might be a good idea to see the new movie before commenting.

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[fan4stic]

There is no one person or thing to blame for these killer’s actions, in any of the films. More often than not, the killer’s stated “motivations” are simply their own justifications or excuses for why they chose to kill people. Billy Loomis blaming Maureen Prescott for his mom leaving doesn’t explain the well-planned killing spree a year later, dressing up in a Halloween costume, using only a knife to kill, the creepy phone calls taunting his victims, picking off his friends and classmates one by one, etc. He did all that because he was obsessed with and inspired by horror movies and because he was a psychopath. Plain and simple.

Also, might be a good idea to see the new movie before commenting.

I said above that killers motives are them choosing to do bad things as a response to something, but those motives are still personal for the characters.

Spoiler

It's not a pointless thing that's not connected to the characters.

This is a reaction to the information provided in this scenario. I don't need to see the movie to react to this specific information, as provided in this context.

 

[Scorpio]

I agree. The original three movies did a much better job of showing the weight of the events carry over from each movie.

Apart from the obvious repercussions of the Maureen Prescott story spanning the trilogy, you had Cotton in 2 seeking his 15 minutes of fame after his name was dragged through the mud in 1, which Sidney gives him at the end of 2 by telling the media he was the hero they wanted to talk to. In 3 he has become a TV celebrity with his own show.

Gale and Dewey both evolve so nicely over the three movies. At the end of 1 Dewey is being hauled into an ambulance and Gale is in front of the camera cut and bruised and doing the story on the murders. At the end of 2 Dewey is being hauled into an ambulance and a cut and bruised Gale abandons the camera to go with him. Then by the end of 3 they get engaged. Really showed how Gale changed, and how much Dewey changed her.

Sidney tries to move on with her life after 1, goes to college, makes some new friends, starts a new relationship. By 3 after all her friends and her boyfriend were murdered in 2, she's become an isolated recluse. I also liked the touch of her wearing Derek's Greek letter necklace in 3.

Despite my issues with Scream 3, it still felt strongly connected as a continuation to the previous two movies.

Agree with every single thing you said. I definitely have my issues with scream 3 but it still felt so connected and important to the overall story and acted as a true conclusion that wrapped up all the major storylines (at the time)

A huge issue I have with Scream 4 is it really doesn’t continue the story of the original trio or do anything impactful with them. They are just there and we don’t feel any weight of their history or the fact that they are dealing with this all again. It didn’t ever feel like a proper sequel to scream 3 to me, I mean what is Sidney’s storyline or motivation in scream 4? She wrote a book (which i never bought to be honest, after all she went through I can never imagine her going on a media tour lol) and then she just waits around the rest of the movie, not even getting to act as a mentor character in any meaningful way.

Scream 5 was a true sequel in all the best ways. I really felt the emotional impact when the original trio all showed up, between dewey and gales reunion, sidney arriving at stu’s house and realising what she has stepped back into and her story coming full circle, dewey explaining the rules to the new gang, sidney offering guidance to sam, gale realising her faults and letting go of her sensationalism to let the killers die in anonymity, I really loved the evolution of their characters as mentors this time around

 

[samsnee]

I know she’s one of the faces of the franchise but I was surprised how little screen time she had

 

[antsman41]

Queen.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm glad you liked the movie. Despite my problems, I liked it too! I'll definitely include it in my Scream marathons. Did he say what his Scream 5 was?

I believe his idea was outdated because his original concept for 4 was for Jill to get away with it and survive into 5. Then she was going to start being stalked by another killer who knew what she'd done so it was going to be killer vs. killer.

Kevin Williamson Details His Original Plans for ‘Scream 5’ & ‘Scream 6’! [Interview]

Would've been interesting no doubt.

Spoiler

Though I think we have the seeds planted to go in a vaguely similar direction with Sam, given who she is and her inner darkness/lineage. Only she can still be a sympathetic protagonist, whereas Jill was such a despicable character that I think making her the protagonist, while a neat idea, may not have fully worked for that reason.

I'm very pleased with how the franchise is setup to move forward from here. There's a lot of fun possibilities, so many directions they can go from here!

Spoiler

That wasn't the main killer's motivation though. Every villain has a motive, that is really just them choosing to do bad things as a response to something. That doesn't change that the motive exists and gives the characters something. Pointless trite fandom discourse isn't what these movies have ever been about. I think it doesn't mean anything for any of the characters. It might as well just be a random slasher movie if the villain is gonna have such a pointless motive that isn't, as far as I've heard, connected to the characters, as far as I think.

Spoiler

Well...I don't think addressing the crazy state of modern fandom is either pointless or trite. It's 100% in line with the types of things the films have dealt with and discussed. Check out the opening to Scream 2. It's oozing with social commentary, including how the audience is cheering on the killer in a cheesy slasher flick that is based on horrific true life events. All the films have commentary not just on horror films, the media, Hollywood (hello Scream 3), misogyny, social media, fame, fans. Film geeks have featured prominently throughout the series, both as good guys and bad guys. Film culture is very baked-in and makes Scream the perfect franchise to address where we're at with it now. Now it's fine if you also want a personal motive to go with it, I get that and I prefer that too generally-- but I think it's a pretty brilliant meta move here, as deviating a bit from the franchise's formula is exactly the type of thing that sets certain people off.

But in Billy Loomis' own words:

Billy : Well, I don't really believe in motives, Sid. I mean did Norman Bates have a motive?

Stu : No.

Billy : Did we ever find out why Hannibal Lecter like to eat people? DON'T THINK SO! See, it's a lot more scarier when there's no motive, Sid.

Now, of course he goes on to offer his personal motive, but I don't see it as a big deal that this one time they tried it another way. It would've been very easy to make Richie the cousin of Stu or something, out to take back the Ghostface legacy from the Loomis shadow or something. Any number of things, that can all still be explored in sequels. But I think a break from that trope was refreshing after 3 straight sequels of some type of revenge motive. And it is pretty scary if you think about how depraved it is. And also just in terms of why the killer is trying to make a real-life requel this time, it totally fits. It's super duper meta, but that's the series.

 

[TheVileOne]

Good think they didn't do a stupid day and date movie for this release.

 

[Scorpio]

I know she’s one of the faces of the franchise but I was surprised how little screen time she had

It was definitely a lot less but i actually feel like she had pretty much dead even screen time with Dewey and Gale. I think Dewey just appeared first and had more emotional scenes so it feels like more. Dewey shows up at roughly the 30 minute mark and is gone about 40 minutes after that. And then Sid and Gale are there for the remainder of the movie which is roughly 40 minutes as well

I was happy with Sid’s screen time considering how close we came to a Scream 5 existing without her involvement at all

 

[Doctor Jones]

I believe his idea was outdated because his original concept for 4 was for Jill to get away with it and survive into 5. Then she was going to start being stalked by another killer who knew what she'd done so it was going to be killer vs. killer.

Kevin Williamson Details His Original Plans for ‘Scream 5’ & ‘Scream 6’! [Interview]

Would've been interesting no doubt.

Spoiler

Though I think we have the seeds planted to go in a vaguely similar direction with Sam, given who she is and her inner darkness/lineage. Only she can still be a sympathetic protagonist, whereas Jill was such a despicable character that I think making her the protagonist, while a neat idea, may not have fully worked for that reason.

I'm very pleased with how the franchise is setup to move forward from here. There's a lot of fun possibilities, so many directions they can go from here!

I really loved that idea. The script ends with Jill being hauled out and Sidney is alive. Would have been cool to see the killer as the new protagonist.

 

[DCnightwing23]

Spoiler

This movie was so fun. Easily the best Roger Jackson has been since the first 2 imo. The opening was so good, I got so giddy hearing Jackson's voice again, hearing him go in full Ghostface for a split second as he starts to speak then normalizing it to have a "normal" conversation with her, so good. I hadn't seen much of the marketing, but did anyone else here think that one of the OG's was gonna turn out to be the killer here? Up until I saw Sidney with a stroller and children I thought they were gonna have her become mental from all the trauma and come back for Billy's kid. Anyway, this was a good time, my favorite sequel right up there with the 2nd. Loved the easter egg of Kirby from 4 still being alive, maybe that comes back into play for 6? It's funny, Randy calls Stu and Billy being the killers in the first movie, and here, Dewey calls Richie being the killer. I was also suspecting the twins of being the killers too, but Amber kept on sticking out like a sore thumb. She was far too obsessive over Tara and not in the good friend being protective type of way either. The kills were great, and many of them left me shook. I did not expect the sheriff to die, her son? Yes, but I thought she'd see him all butchered up and survive, nope. Oh, and the Dewey death? Brutal... but damn, if I didn't love the "it's an honor" line and the way Jackson delivered it, EPIC. The ending doesn't quite land for me, but it's not nearly as bad as 3 & 4. It doesn't help that the lines and action they give Sidney and Gale at the end don't quite work either. Too many jokes and quirky one-liners coming from them considering the situation they're in. All around, I feel like they have some interesting paths they can go down after this one, and I'm excited to see where this franchise goes. I love Jackson & Ghostface so much, so I am hoping we get something within the next couple of years. Here's hoping at least!

 

[fan4stic]

Spoiler

Well...I don't think addressing the crazy state of modern fandom is either pointless or trite. It's 100% in line with the types of things the films have dealt with and discussed. Check out the opening to Scream 2. It's oozing with social commentary, including how the audience is cheering on the killer in a cheesy slasher flick that is based on horrific true life events. All the films have commentary not just on horror films, the media, Hollywood (hello Scream 3), misogyny, social media, fame, fans. Film geeks have featured prominently throughout the series, both as good guys and bad guys. Film culture is very baked-in and makes Scream the perfect franchise to address where we're at with it now. Now it's fine if you also want a personal motive to go with it, I get that and I prefer that too generally-- but I think it's a pretty brilliant meta move here, as deviating a bit from the franchise's formula is exactly the type of thing that sets certain people off.

But in Billy Loomis' own words:



Now, of course he goes on to offer his personal motive, but I don't see it as a big deal that this one time they tried it another way. It would've been very easy to make Richie the cousin of Stu or something, out to take back the Ghostface legacy from the Loomis shadow or something. Any number of things, that can all still be explored in sequels. But I think a break from that trope was refreshing after 3 straight sequels of some type of revenge motive. And it is pretty scary if you think about how depraved it is. And also just in terms of why the killer is trying to make a real-life requel this time, it totally fits. It's super duper meta, but that's the series.

Spoiler

I didn't speak on not having themes. I spoke against it not being a real personal motive that's connected to the characters. A villain's motive being them being a fan of movies, I think is both stupid, pointless and trite, and might as well be a cheap slasher movie with just a motive like that, with no real connection to Scream. I see no point.

I don't care if it may happen in real life. I think it's stupid, pointless and trite in real life, as well.

Whatever the next movie may want or try to do, it won't change what this movie may be doing, to me.

 

[kevork89]

Does anyone love how Jack Quaid is in this and he is Meg Ryan’s son. I feel like the writers missed a good opportunity to make another Meg Ryan reference like in the original lol.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Haven't gone to my second viewing yet, but I'm thinking today I will. One thing that has lingered with me since my first viewing is Roger Jackson and how great he was here. I actually met him about 8 years ago, and he did ask "What's your favorite scary movie, Alex?" when I met him haha. Pretty surreal, I'd say. I met Matthew Lillard and Skeet Ulrich a few years later.

 

[BatLobster]

A couple of other fun Easter eggs:

Spoiler

In the hospital, Party of Five is on TV, which Kevin Williamson was a writer on, and Scott Foley (who played Roman) is on screen. Not sure if the film is making it canon that Roman had been an actor before he became a director but it's fun regardless.

And...in addition to the YouTube thumbnail confirming Kirby is alive, there is one at the bottom that says "Did the real Stu Macher survive?"

 

[The Shape]

 

[Scorpio]

Haven't gone to my second viewing yet, but I'm thinking today I will. One thing that has lingered with me since my first viewing is Roger Jackson and how great he was here. I actually met him about 8 years ago, and he did ask "What's your favorite scary movie, Alex?" when I met him haha. Pretty surreal, I'd say. I met Matthew Lillard and Skeet Ulrich a few years later.

Woah! You met all 3 of them? I’m so jealous, that’s awesome. I’ve only met one celebrity which is Billie Lourd and I could barely get my words out lol. I absolutely adored Carrie Fisher and I lost my chance to ever meet her so meeting her daughter was very emotional for me

Side note, how great is Carrie Fisher’s cameo in Scream 3? One of my favourite scream moments

 

[BatLobster]

Haven't gone to my second viewing yet, but I'm thinking today I will. One thing that has lingered with me since my first viewing is Roger Jackson and how great he was here. I actually met him about 8 years ago, and he did ask "What's your favorite scary movie, Alex?" when I met him haha. Pretty surreal, I'd say. I met Matthew Lillard and Skeet Ulrich a few years later.

That's awesome! I need to see it again to confirm my feelings, but I think this film could possibly have Roger's best performance since the original.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'll go along with that. He really brought it.

Spoiler

I loved "Wait, wait!" These idiots didn't account for Sidney not giving a **** anymore.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Woah! You met all 3 of them? I’m so jealous, that’s awesome. I’ve only met one celebrity which is Billie Lourd and I could barely get my words out lol. I absolutely adored Carrie Fisher and I lost my chance to ever meet her so meeting her daughter was very emotional for me

Side note, how great is Carrie Fisher’s cameo in Scream 3? One of my favourite scream moments

That's awesome! I need to see it again to confirm my feelings, but I think this film could possibly have Roger's best performance since the original.

All 3 were super nice. The banter between Matthew and Skeet in real life was just as amusing as in Scream haha. Really nice dudes all around! Roger was pretty quiet, but he did give me that line haha.

I actually was supposed to meet carrie fisher 7 years ago, but unfortunately, she had cancelled due to being sick. Then a year later she unfortunately passed.

 

[antsman41]

Scream 6 needs one or more of these to change it up;

- two killers acting independently

- two Ghostfaces killing at once [on screen]

- one Ghostface getting killed/revealed in Act I/II, while the partner continues on

 

[TheVileOne]

Why two killers? Why not three?