Season 6, Episode 3 "Oathbreaker" Discussion Thread

[Rowsdower!]

I was joking lol why the hell would I want Mark Addy to come back for a prequel.

It's just that they aren't going to do one. I've been saying Matt Nable for young Barristan is beyond perfect for years.

Wow, that is good casting. He does look like him.

 

[godisawesome]

I also wonder why there were only two of the Kingsguard instead of three at the tower. While it still would have been an unfair fight in terms of numbers, it wouldn't have felt THAT unfair.

If I had to guess, it probably served two purposes: practicality and dramatic impression. Speaking in terms of practicality right now, having one stuntman do almost all the work probably simplified everything about the scene, both for choreography, cinematography, and stunt-work. Dramatically speaking, it probably enhanced the idea the show-writers were going for to have Ned's "legend" look more dishonorable by making it clear he really was horrifically outclassed by an enemy capable of a total-party-kill. And really could only win by cheating.

Of course, I don't think there was anything revelatory about Reed saving Ned's life because the books made that clear from the very first one, and event he show kind of showed that Ned had combat pragmatism, just not a great deal of skill in politics. I think it might have looked cooler to have the 7 v 3 fight from the books, but that may genuinely have been a bit to chaotic to manage on a TV show schedule.

 

[Reek]

or you could just say 'it was cooler seeing Dayne fight 4 people at once'.

Yep.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Heh, yeah, any of those explanations work, I suppose.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

"The Lord let you come back for a reason. Stannis was not the Prince Who Was Promised, but someone has to be."
―Melisandre to Jon Snow

Davos thinks "Aww $#%t here we go again.

"

 

[BestGirl]

Yeah Rickon has never had a place on this TV show(book may differ), he never did anything or even contributed to any story. They can kill him safely to maintain their image as a very gory TV show without actually losing any potential...

I've always assumed Rickon will survive so that the Stark line will carry on.

 

[Victarion]

Its not that gory.

He could, though I think it would more fit the message GRRM has in the books if the line's carried through Jon, Sansa and Arya. They're the ones Westerosi society marginalizes, so to have an ancient and noble line furthered through them would fit.

 

[BestGirl]

Yes, but their kids won't be Starks - unless Jon is legitimated as one. My point is, there's always supposed to be a Stark in Winterfell and, as matters stand now, there won't be one in the future unless Rickon survives to reproduce.

 

[godisawesome]

Yes, but their kids won't be Starks - unless Jon is legitimated as one. My point is, there's always supposed to be a Stark in Winterfell and, as matters stand now, there won't be one in the future unless Rickon survives to reproduce.

The books already have one example of a Stark lady's "illegitimate"/spawn-of-a-wildling-marriage son becoming Lord Stark in the form of Bael the Bard's patricidal and Bolton-fodder of an offspring, and you've got the book precedent of the Mormont clan's matrilineal inheritance to back up the idea that if Arya or Sansa had kids and wanted to call them Starks, all they'd need would be the military upper-hand to enforce it.

There's actually a potential for 5 seperate Stark lines currently that could be used to supply Winterfell with its lord, though it does seem highly improbable that we'll actually see the girls have a legitimized offspring or Rickon making it out of Ramsay's hands.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

The books already have one example of a Stark lady's "illegitimate"/spawn-of-a-wildling-marriage son becoming Lord Stark in the form of Bael the Bard's patricidal and Bolton-fodder of an offspring, and you've got the book precedent of the Mormont clan's matrilineal inheritance to back up the idea that if Arya or Sansa had kids and wanted to call them Starks, all they'd need would be the military upper-hand to enforce it.

There's actually a potential for 5 seperate Stark lines currently that could be used to supply Winterfell with its lord, though it does seem highly improbable that we'll actually see the girls have a legitimized offspring or Rickon making it out of Ramsay's hands.

What do you mean by Bolton-fodder of an offspring? I read the book, but I cant seem to understand.
Thanks!

 

[Reek]

Yes, but their kids won't be Starks - unless Jon is legitimated as one. My point is, there's always supposed to be a Stark in Winterfell and, as matters stand now, there won't be one in the future unless Rickon survives to reproduce.

Your user title and avatar together are goddamn hilarious...

Shireen is chillin alright

 

[godisawesome]

What do you mean by Bolton-fodder of an offspring? I read the book, but I cant seem to understand.
Thanks!

It's one of the legends mentioned in two of the books, summarized (and sourced, because I'm not that stupid) here:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bael_the_Bard

Basically, there's a Winterfell legend that has one of the Kings Beyond the Wall sneak over and infiltrate Winterfell by pretending to be a bard (with his name, Bael, becoming an anagram, Abel, used by a spying Mance Rayder), seduced that Stark's lone daughter, hid out in the catacombs with her long enough for her to get pregnant and give birth....

And then years later that baby boy becomes the next Lord Stark, kills Bael in battle, but is killed in turn by the Boltons.

The story almost certainly serves as a foreshadowing with certain predictions: for instance, Bael is supposed to have left a blue rose in the girl's room when he "married" her Wildlings style. If you know a certain fan theory for Game of Thrones/ASOIAF that is generally displayed as a mathematical equation using only letters, and have made a connection to it and the blue rise in the Wall in Dany's vision...

 

[BrollySupersj]

So....what's the legality of this matter? I doubt Jon is thinking about any loopholes here, but is someone going to go after him?

 

[Reek]

So....what's the legality of this matter? I doubt Jon is thinking about any loopholes here, but is someone going to go after him?

No. Edd is LC now. and why would they? If anything they are scared s***less of him

 

[Ezio Auditore]

It's one of the legends mentioned in two of the books, summarized (and sourced, because I'm not that stupid) here:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bael_the_Bard

Basically, there's a Winterfell legend that has one of the Kings Beyond the Wall sneak over and infiltrate Winterfell by pretending to be a bard (with his name, Bael, becoming an anagram, Abel, used by a spying Mance Rayder), seduced that Stark's lone daughter, hid out in the catacombs with her long enough for her to get pregnant and give birth....

And then years later that baby boy becomes the next Lord Stark, kills Bael in battle, but is killed in turn by the Boltons.

The story almost certainly serves as a foreshadowing with certain predictions: for instance, Bael is supposed to have left a blue rose in the girl's room when he "married" her Wildlings style. If you know a certain fan theory for Game of Thrones/ASOIAF that is generally displayed as a mathematical equation using only letters, and have made a connection to it and the blue rise in the Wall in Dany's vision...

Oooohh I see what you did there 😏 Thanks!
I love Bael's story. And how one of the characters in the books uses it as inspiration (Abel)

 

[BestGirl]

Your user title and avatar together are goddamn hilarious...

Shireen is chillin alright

She's definitely not burning! No siree!

 

[ComicChick]

I'm sure Jon is finally breaking his Night's Watch oath. Now he can be one step closer to being Jon Stark.

And man, did Stannis get the sh**tiest death. He's technically the rightful king and after how they wrote him, they decide to kill him off screen.

isn't Gendry technically the rightful king? he's the heir after all

 

[Reek]

there is no rightful king at the moment.

 

[Rowsdower!]

No. Edd is LC now. and why would they? If anything they are scared s***less of him

Haha yeah.

Night's Watch: Oathbreaker! We'll put you to death!

Jon: I've been dead once already. It's very liberating. You should think of it as... Therapy.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Gendry would have to be legitimized and there's no way Tommen is going to let that happen. You'd have to scour the Baratheon family tree, which leads back to a woman named Elyanna who married a Lannister. Their child was Tywin, but Tywin is dead. So that puts Jaime next in line, but he's ineligible due to being Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Tyrion can't either because he's a fugitive. So, technically Cersei is the rightful heir to the throne as luck would have it.

http://mashable.com/2016/05/03/game-thrones-heir/#s0aQMgdQNuqk

 

[Reek]

No Lannister has the right to the throne, Dany is the closest relative to a Baratheon that isn't a bastard, I think.

Something like that, it gets so confusing trying to think about it so I am assuming no one has rightful claim right now.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Tywin's mother was Jeyne Marbrand. The only time in history that a Baratheon and a Lannister married, was when Gowen Baratheon wed Tya Lannister, and the result of that was a boy who died as a small child.

As far as the Baratheon Dynasty goes, the only legitimate heirs would be Robert and Stannis' Targaryen cousins, Dany and possibly (probably) [blackout] Jon [/blackout]

 

[Da-Scribe]

No Lannister has the right to the throne. Dany is the closest relative to a Baratheon that isn't a bastard, I think.

Technically they do, because they're descended from Baratheons. Unless I'm oversimplifying, you just have to a legitimate member of the ruling family to inherit the throne.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Tywin's mother was Jeyne Marbrand. The only time in history that a Baratheon and a Lannister married, was when Gowen Baratheon wed Tya Lannister, and the result of that was a boy who died as a small child.

As far as the Baratheon Dynasty goes, the only legitimate heirs would be Robert and Stannis' Targaryen cousins, Dany and possibly (probably) [blackout] Jon [/blackout]

Misspoke. Tywin's mother isn't Elyanna. It's his great-great-great-etc. grandmother I believe.

 

[Roose Bolton]

That's not accurate either. We're specifically told in the books that the only time a Baratheon and a Lannister ever married was the above instance with Gowen and Tya, and there were no living children from that union. The only other Great House that the Baratheons ever married into was the Targaryens, because they themselves were an offshoot of House Targaryen.