Season 6, Episode 8 "No One" Discussion Thread

[Kane52630]

Preview
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[Thundercrack85]

I look forward to seeing those stupid Sparrows getting massacred.

 

[TheFuture]

Hmmmmmm, it looks as I expected in regards to Jaime. They're making it easy for the audience to accept Brienne possibly cutting him down.

It's disappointing that they aren't giving us a more conflicted Jaime.

I don't think both of them will wish the season alive anyway.

 

[ComicChick]

i dont think Jamie can show his confliction in a confrontation with Blackfish. he has thousands of troops to lead and if they think he's not suitable, they won't follow.

 

[Victarion]

They showed Arya's parkour here. I guarantee there's some smoke and mirrors going on with her scenes from "The Broken Man."

 

[Matt]

Hmmmmmm, it looks as I expected in regards to Jaime. They're making it easy for the audience to accept Brienne possibly cutting him down.

It's disappointing that they aren't giving us a more conflicted Jaime.

I don't think both of them will wish the season alive anyway.

I'm not sure why he would be conflicted, at least regarding the Blackfish. Jamie may have shown his better nature to Brienne, but he is still a Lannister who has done everything in the name of protecting his family from their enemies. He may frown upon tactics like the Red Wedding and may retain some honor (despite his desire to hide it) but he is still loyal to his family. The Lannisters are not inherently evil, after all. Cersei may have done some evil things. But Jamie's goal is to protect his family and Tommen's reigin. The Blackfish is rebelling against that reign. Jamie has no conflict about fighting him, nor should he. The only morally questionable thing that he is doing is fighting to keep Tommen (who has no real claim) on the throne and in power. But what is the alternative? Saying "hey everyone, Tommen is my son! Not a Baratheon!" That would result in him, Cersei, and probably Tommen being executed. Jamie is protecting his son. There is nothing inherently dishonorable and he has no reason to be conflicted.

Now, if he has to do battle with Brienne, sure. I am sure fighting a friend on an opposing side will give him so conflict. But as it is right now, there is no reason for it. Jamie simply remains, as he always has been and probably always will be, a morally grey character.

 

[RadioSha]

Cersei, Jaimie, and Tommen die this season.

Book it.

 

[Matt]

Cersei, Jaimie, and Tommen die this season.

Book it.

Tommen - I agree.

Cersei - No, simply because Tommen is dying. Cersei has been such a despicable character that Cersei needs to outlive him by at least a few episodes (more than those that are left in this season) to feel the pain of having lost all of her children (in accordance with the prophecy...though I don't think that is part of the show), and accept that she probably caused it (at least with two of them), in the name of preserving her own power while using her children as a justification for her evil powergrabbing ways. In other words, Cersei, more than any other villain on the show, needs to see and feel the impact of what she has done. Plus there is unfinished business with Tyrion, who should be present for her death (if not outright kill her) to make it have its full emotional impact on the viewer.

Jamie - Could go either way. The only way he dies this season is if Brienne kills him...and it would be fitting for him to die at the hands of Brienne, impaled on a blade called Oathkeeper, that he gave her. Plus it would further isolate Cersei, taking away the one person she loves other than her children. In addition, it seems like Martin was setting up conflict between Brienne and Jamie through Lady Stoneheart. Its curious that in the absence of Stoneheart, Brienne has been inserted into the Blackfish/Riverrun siege story. This creates conflict with Jamie. Its almost as if despite Stoneheart being cut, the writers, who have some access to what Martin is planning in the next book, NEEDED to find a way to put Brienne in conflict with Jamie. Why do so if she isn't going to kill him. Flip side of that is that Jamie could kill her. Its not evidence of Jamie's death. Just evidence that these two characters need to be in conflict for some reason.

The argument against Jamie dying is that his story is not really set up for it (in context of the show) and I am not sure that they can give Jamie an appropriate swan song (that his character necessitates) with the way that the table has been set for the third act of the season. A conflict between he and Brienne over the siege of Riverrun does not really fit the kind of death that is warranted for Jamie's character. Plus, he also has unresolved business with Tyrion.

Personally, I do not think death is an appropriate end for Jamie. I think Jamie should survive the series (both TV and book) as the only surviving Lannister (well, one of two...maybe Tyrion lives) and take the Black (possibly becoming the new Lord Commander of the Night's Watch) as an act of atonement for his sins (for which he has some degree of guilt). It effectively ends the Lannister name, it is a satisfying conclusion for Jamie, and it is thematically fitting that the Oathbreaker atone for his sins by voluntarily taking a lifetime oath of service, not for glory, but to protect the realm.

 

[DKDetective]

Tommen - I agree.

Cersei - No, simply because Tommen is dying. Cersei has been such a despicable character that Cersei needs to outlive him by at least a few episodes (more than those that are left in this season) to feel the pain of having lost all of her children (in accordance with the prophecy...though I don't think that is part of the show), and accept that she probably caused it (at least with two of them), in the name of preserving her own power while using her children as a justification for her evil powergrabbing ways. In other words, Cersei, more than any other villain on the show, needs to see and feel the impact of what she has done. Plus there is unfinished business with Tyrion, who should be present for her death (if not outright kill her) to make it have its full emotional impact on the viewer.

Jamie - Could go either way. The only way he dies this season is if Brienne kills him...and it would be fitting for him to die at the hands of Brienne, impaled on a blade called Oathkeeper, that he gave her. Plus it would further isolate Cersei, taking away the one person she loves other than her children. In addition, it seems like Martin was setting up conflict between Brienne and Jamie through Lady Stoneheart. Its curious that in the absence of Stoneheart, Brienne has been inserted into the Blackfish/Riverrun siege story. This creates conflict with Jamie. Its almost as if despite Stoneheart being cut, the writers, who have some access to what Martin is planning in the next book, NEEDED to find a way to put Brienne in conflict with Jamie. Why do so if she isn't going to kill him. Flip side of that is that Jamie could kill her. Its not evidence of Jamie's death. Just evidence that these two characters need to be in conflict for some reason.

The argument against Jamie dying is that his story is not really set up for it (in context of the show) and I am not sure that they can give Jamie an appropriate swan song (that his character necessitates) with the way that the table has been set for the third act of the season. A conflict between he and Brienne over the siege of Riverrun does not really fit the kind of death that is warranted for Jamie's character. Plus, he also has unresolved business with Tyrion.

Personally, I do not think death is an appropriate end for Jamie. I think Jamie should survive the series (both TV and book) as the only surviving Lannister (well, one of two...maybe Tyrion lives) and take the Black (possibly becoming the new Lord Commander of the Night's Watch) as an act of atonement for his sins (for which he has some degree of guilt). It effectively ends the Lannister name, it is a satisfying conclusion for Jamie, and it is thematically fitting that the Oathbreaker atone for his sins by voluntarily taking a lifetime oath of service, not for glory, but to protect the realm.

You think the Night's Watch and the Wall is going to survive this series? Interesting... considering that A Song of Ice and Fire is very much structured as the conclusion of the ancient mythical conflict with the Others, with the Prince who was Promised and the return of dragons and all that jazz.

 

[godisawesome]

I figure Tommen is a goner, while Cersei is debatable, and Jamie is save for at least this season. Tommen is going to die because that's the prophecy and because he's a good kid in Game Of Thrones (the innocent only survive if they're also badass like Little Miss Mormont), and Cersei is going to die because of the prophecy.

But I feel like Jamie is going to survive because he's my preferred candidate for the Valonquar position of "little brother;" to me, nothing would taste sweeter than the irony of Cersei's favorite sibling and boy toy being the one to put her down. So I figure Jamie is likely to survive the Riverlands, and he and Cersei may be set up for a confrontation next season.

 

[Matt]

You think the Night's Watch and the Wall is going to survive this series? Interesting... considering that A Song of Ice and Fire is very much structured as the conclusion of the ancient mythical conflict with the Others, with the Prince who was Promised and the return of dragons and all that jazz.

Well, I think the Night Watch is basically dead following the mutiny against Jon/his return. I think whoever remains will be wiped out by the White Walkers...probably before the season ends. That said, I think some variant of the Night's Watch will be rebuilt after the war against the Others. Jamie seems like a good choice to rebuild, using the Lannister's fortune. It may be a futile act, as the White Walkers may never return. But I think it is still a fitting symbolic act of atonement that would suit his character well.

Just as I think Littlefinger's perfect ending, as someone who has put his own power ahead of the good of the realm more than any other character (and therefore has more responsibility than any other character for the realm being unable to defend itself from the Others), is to take the Iron Throne and be killed almost immediately after, I think Jamie is a similar person. He put his family's well-being ahead of his duty to Robert as a member of the King's Guard. His selfishness has helped create this situation. Unlike Littlefinger, Jamie seems to have a desire to accept his role and atone. Thus, I think it is a very fitting ending for him.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I do wonder who will actually kill Tommen.

 

[Victarion]

You don't think the High Sparrow would have Tommen named as the Faith's Champion and thrown to the Mountain, do you?

 

[Matt]

You don't think the High Sparrow would have Tommen named as the Faith's Champion and thrown to the Mountain, do you?

Oh man, that would be evil...even by this show's incredibly high standard.

I don't think the High Sparrow would do that (because it doesn't do much to further his goals)...although, why is he so interested in Tommen having an heir? Unless he is planning to outlive Tommen.

 

[Xrated48]

Jamie is most likely dying this season as I just can't see him being apart of the show once the white walkers cross the wall but I hope I am wrong

 

[Rowsdower!]

Oh yes please give us a Tommen/Mountain trial by combat. I need to see that little dolt die a brutal death.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

Oh yes please give us a Tommen/Mountain trial by combat. I need to see that little dolt die a brutal death.

I feel bad for him. He's a good lad (despite his parents) just born into a doomed situation.

If the Faith names a champion for this eventual Trial by Combat I believe it will be the Hound who was rescued by, preached to and influenced by Brother Ray. Then we have our Clegane Bowl.

 

[Victarion]

Oh man, that would be evil...even by this show's incredibly high standard.

I don't think the High Sparrow would do that (because it doesn't do much to further his goals)...although, why is he so interested in Tommen having an heir? Unless he is planning to outlive Tommen.

He'd have to have some pretty heavy malice toward Cersei for that.

I think the HS wants another political hostage. I guarantee the moment Margaery bore a son, the boy'd be taken from his parents to be raised "in the light of the Seven."

Fist, that's what I'm predicting will happen too: Sandor will go get his revenge against the Brotherhood. A sparrow out in the Riverlands will notice or hear word of the warrior that ended the Brotherhood's worship of the Lord of Light, and end up escorting Sandor to King's Landing as a potential commander for the Faith Militant.

It would also give Sandor the chance to turn the faith more toward Septon Ray's teachings.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

Fist, that's what I'm predicting will happen too: Sandor will go get his revenge against the Brotherhood. A sparrow out in the Riverlands will notice or hear word of the warrior that ended the Brotherhood's worship of the Lord of Light, and end up escorting Sandor to King's Landing as a potential commander for the Faith Militant.

That's a very plausible scenario, I like it!

 

[Charlatan]

He'd have to have some pretty heavy malice toward Cersei for that.

I think the HS wants another political hostage. I guarantee the moment Margaery bore a son, the boy'd be taken from his parents to be raised "in the light of the Seven."

Fist, that's what I'm predicting will happen too: Sandor will go get his revenge against the Brotherhood. A sparrow out in the Riverlands will notice or hear word of the warrior that ended the Brotherhood's worship of the Lord of Light, and end up escorting Sandor to King's Landing as a potential commander for the Faith Militant.

It would also give Sandor the chance to turn the faith more toward Septon Ray's teachings.

Umm I'm pretty sure those Brotherhood guys are still worshipping the Lord of Light. They used the phrase "the night is dark and full of terrors" when they spoke to Septon Ray. They also saw his necklace with the 7 pointed star on it. Even though he told his flock he was "non denominational" he was wearing the star.

I think they will negotiate a surrender of Riverrun and it won't come down to a fight.

And definitely smoke and mirrors with "Arya" being stabbed.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I don't buy this weird theory that Arya gave some random street girl her own face. I mean, WTF? How would you convince someone to do that? "Hey! You! Yes, you! You're about my height and build. Listen, a secret group of assassins is planning to kill me. Would you mind walking around with my face for a few days? I'll make sure you get paid afterward if you prove successful. Deal?"

 

[Victarion]

I don't like that one. I read a theory that the Waif is a figment of Arya's imagination. A manifestation of the Faceless side of her personality. This was supported by the fact that you never see Jaqen addressing the Waif while Arya's in the room. And vice-versa.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

I don't like that one. I read a theory that the Waif is a figment of Arya's imagination. A manifestation of the Faceless side of her personality. This was supported by the fact that you never see Jaqen addressing the Waif while Arya's in the room. And vice-versa.

So.... First Back to the Future with the Hodorgate, and now we go full Fight Club?t:t:t:



I like that theory, for the record

 

[Charlatan]

I don't buy this weird theory that Arya gave some random street girl her own face. I mean, WTF? How would you convince someone to do that? "Hey! You! Yes, you! You're about my height and build. Listen, a secret group of assassins is planning to kill me. Would you mind walking around with my face for a few days? I'll make sure you get paid afterward if you prove successful. Deal?"

Didn't a man owe a girl one more life? She only named 2.

also check out what Arya was wearing when she went into hiding

Now look at the what the girl is wearing with her back turned towards you as "Arya" walks toward you on the bridge.

if you go back and watch this scene again you'll notice as they get close "Arya" turns her face away from the girl walking away so she can't get a good look at her.

the jacket is different but the skirt and the hair are the same. could be a coincidence. could be a curveball.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Fist, that's what I'm predicting will happen too: Sandor will go get his revenge against the Brotherhood. A sparrow out in the Riverlands will notice or hear word of the warrior that ended the Brotherhood's worship of the Lord of Light, and end up escorting Sandor to King's Landing as a potential commander for the Faith Militant.

Holy ****, Sandor championing the Faith Militant against the Mountain championing Cersei? Westeros would invent pay-per-view cable TV just for that reason alone.