Shang - Chi

[chamber-music]

Why did Crazy Rich Asians bomb in China? What didn't they like about it?

Maybe Marvel won't care if Shang Chi doesn't do as well in China.

I've not seen Crazy Rich Asians but I think I heard it was set in Singapore. Perhaps Chinese audiences just don't care all that much about Singaporeans. White Americans probably would not rush to see a movie about rich Swiss white people so there is no reason to expect Asians in Asia to necessarily care about a movie about other Asians. Asians aren't under-represented in their own countries so the demand for an all Asian Hollywood films probably isn't that high.

I think Chinese audiences will see Shang Chi if it has lots of great spectacle and some big name Chinese stars.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I don't think they can get Jackie Chan as a villain. People will not want that! I think he has to be more of a mentor to Shang Chi or something. Even invent a role if they have to. But not playing a role that was once Fu Manchu.



They can steal one of Iron Fist's villains and make him into one of Shang Chi's. It's not like Iron Fist is going to use them anytime soon.

I don't know, they got Robert Redford as a villain. It seems as most of the "legend" class actors that come into the MCU come in as a one film appearance villain.

 

[Silvermoth]

Yeah I never underestimate the talent marvel can get now. I was shocked when they got Gwyneth Paltrow for iron man.

I wonder if it will be hard to have two superhero spy flicks on phase 4? Black widow and Shang Chi. Maybe they could kind of do an eternals thing, where they probably wanted to do the Inhumans but when that stank they tried again with eternals? My point is maybe they could make it like a chinese fantasy type thing



Anyway, this would be a great opportunity to bring Randall park back as agent woo

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah I never underestimate the talent marvel can get now. I was shocked when they got Gwyneth Paltrow for iron man.

I wonder if it will be hard to have two superhero spy flicks on phase 4? Black widow and Shang Chi. Maybe they could kind of do an eternals thing, where they probably wanted to do the Inhumans but when that stank they tried again with eternals? My point is maybe they could make it like a chinese fantasy type thing



Anyway, this would be a great opportunity to bring Randall park back as agent woo

No to Chinese fantasy. That means that there would be tons of wire work and gravity-defying scenes, because that's expected in that genre. People literally hover and walk about in mid air in those. If you don't have that, it will not match the existing Chinese fantasy movies out there. And the whole point is not to go in that direction with Shang Chi, because all that wire work does not look impressive at all.

Unless you're more impressed by scenes from the Matrix with people hovering in mid-air compared to actual fighting scenes from films like Enter the Dragon where we see Bruce Lee's sheer skill on display.

 

[eon001]

No worries

By the way, the role already seems highly coveted by some fairly big names

Other than Lewis I've never heard of the rest. Which is not a bad thing. I'm already a fan of Simu. He has a long IMDB resume and is a stunt performer.
Yoshi is Indonesian and Jake is Korean. Do you think there could be potential backlash if they don't cast a Chinese actor in this role? It's the same reason I'm not pulling for Indonesian actor Iko Uwais.

 

[Tg11]

Shang Chi deserves his own big screen franchise and seeing him in the MCU adds martial arts/action into the universe like think your old school Jackie Chan or Jet Li type action movie

 

[Dark Raven]

Other than Lewis I've never heard of the rest. Which is not a bad thing. I'm already a fan of Simu. He has a long IMDB resume and is a stunt performer.
Yoshi is Indonesian and Jake is Korean. Do you think there could be potential backlash if they don't cast a Chinese actor in this role? It's the same reason I'm not pulling for Indonesian actor Iko Uwais.

Definitely should get a Chinese actor rather than an Indonesian or Korean or any other Asian. Otherwise it's like Hollywood openly admitting that they think all Asians look the same and can't tell the difference between them.

 

[Tg11]

Jon Foo as Shang Chi or I would go with Rick Yune or Ludi Lin

 

[Dark Raven]

Jon Foo as Shang Chi or I would go with Rick Yune or Ludi Lin

You mean go with a Korean for a Chinese, after I just said that casting a Korean as a Chinese won't do otherwise it's openly admitting that you think all Asians look alike?

 

[Tg11]

Which is why I suggested Ludi Lin also

 

[eon001]

Definitely should get a Chinese actor rather than an Indonesian or Korean or any other Asian. Otherwise it's like Hollywood openly admitting that they think all Asians look the same and can't tell the difference between them.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. I've heard quite a few fans push non Chinese talent and one person had the nerve to say it doesn't matter where there from, as long as they can fight.

I'm not Chinese so I don't want to argue on behalf of another nation, but it seems like a no brainier. And even as a non Chinese person I can tell that a guy like Iko or Tony Jaa are not Chinese at all.

 

[eon001]

Crazy Rich Asians bombing in China was not surprising, because the cultural cache doesn't really translate. Crazy Rich Asians (in addition to its own merits as a film) was a huge deal in the U.S. because movies with majority-Asian casts are virtually unheard of in Hollywood, something that is obviously not a problem in China, where almost all of the films put out star Chinese casts.

I would say Shang-Chi would actually face a similar problem, since while the idea of a Chinese superhero is something that is going to be a big deal here (especially to Asian Americans who rarely get to see themselves represented in superhero movies), China might not see what the big deal is.

But, as Black Panther, Suicide Squad and Deadpool have all shown, you don't necessarily need the Chinese box office to be a success.

Interesting points. I would expect the Marvel brand would carry some weight, but I have to wonder what kind of an appetite China has for sci fi fantasy.

One of the biggest flops in China was an all out fantasy adventure with a full Chinese cast called Asura.
China's most expensive film is withdrawn after it flops

I'm not sure Asura is a good measuring stick because there is a few conspiracies suggesting it was set up to fail. I would hope Marvel do some research into the market.

One good thing about Shang Chi is I could not imagine the budget being to big as it's street level martial arts with maybe a sprinkle of fantasy. Moderate budget minimizes the risk.

 

[Tg11]

Donnie Yen
Lewis Tan
Jason Scott Lee
Mark Dacascos
Robin Shou
Daniel Dae Kim
Harry Shum Jr.

 

[moped]

Maybe Zhang Jin...unless Marvel wants even younger..

 

[Tg11]

Plus with an all Asian American cast it could be a hit with the Asian demographic much like BP was for black people predominantly

 

[Dark Raven]

Which is why I suggested Ludi Lin also

Donnie Yen
Lewis Tan
Jason Scott Lee
Mark Dacascos
Robin Shou
Daniel Dae Kim
Harry Shum Jr.

You say "which is why you've suggested Ludi Lin", but then in the very next post you suggest people like Daniel Dae Kim who is Korean or Marc Dacascos who is of Hawaiian/Irish/Japanese ancestry.

So that completely cancels out your supposed acknowledgment of not casting a non Chinese. It seems you really can't tell Asians apart.

I don't even have to look up where they're from to tell they are not Chinese. And when I do look up it confirms it. You think native Chinese won't be able to tell?

And Jason Scott Lee is 52 and Robin Shou is 47. You think they're really going to go that old?

 

[Tg11]

Daniel Wu
Jay Chou
Steven Yeun
Ross Butler
Ki Hong Lee
Yoson An

Really does the character have to be Chinese in order for it to be believable

 

[Dark Raven]

Daniel Wu
Jay Chou
Steven Yeun
Ross Butler
Ki Hong Lee
Yoson An

Really does the character have to be Chinese in order for it to be believable

Does Black Panther have to be black for him to be believable?

It's not just about being believable. It's also about being culturally sensitive and not being racially ignorant. Maybe to a non-Asian, all Asians look alike and they can't tell the difference between someone from say, Indonesia, the Philippines, Korea, Japan or China etc. Someone from China will spot the difference immediately.

What's the point of making Shang Chi Korean or Japanese etc instead of Chinese? Do you really think it's all interchangeable?

 

[Tg11]

Does Black Panther have to be black for him to be believable?

It's not just about being believable. It's also about being culturally sensitive and not being racially ignorant. Maybe to a non-Asian, all Asians look alike and they can't tell the difference between someone from say, Indonesia, the Philippines, Korea, Japan or China etc. Someone from China will spot the difference immediately.

What's the point of making Shang Chi Korean or Japanese etc instead of Chinese? Do you really think it's all interchangeable?

Yeah I don't but do you think Marvel cares about that? Feige and company including the Shang Chi director will go after someone with name recognition especially if they want this franchise to be a franchise...hell they casted Chadwick as BP and he's not even African in any way he's African American and he's playing an African character so you think they will care about the difference when it comes to Shang Chi? Especially casting a Korean, Japanese or Filipino actor in the role

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah I don't but do you think Marvel cares about that? Feige and company including the Shang Chi director will go after someone with name recognition especially if they want this franchise to be a franchise...hell they casted Chadwick as BP and he's not even African in any way he's African American and he's playing an African character so you think they will care about the difference when it comes to Shang Chi? Especially casting a Korean, Japanese or Filipino actor in the role

Do you think they're not going to market this heavily in China? And do you not think the Chinese will find it offensive having say, a Japanese person playing a Chinese, especially when there's a whole history between the two countries?

And you say Chadwick Boseman is African American, so the first half of that suggests he has African background but raised in America.

You can get a Chinese American. But that's a big difference than getting a Japanese American or a Korean American to play a Chinese.

And Wakanda is a fictional African nation where it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what they look like. China is not a fictional country. We know exactly what they look like. And the Chinese know what they look like, and they don't look like the Japanese.

And at this point, Marvel movies don't need to go by name recognition. The Marvel brand can sell itself now. And in China, the actor could be a big name anyway. Just because they might not be as known in America doesn't mean they are now insignificant. America is not the centre of the world. And since this is a Chinese film which would be targeting a Chinese audience, Marvel will want to not fall foul of the Chinese.

Getting other nationalities to play Chinese is not far off from when Hollywood used to get white people in Yellow Face make up to play Chinese. Do you really want to go down that path with this movie?

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Even as someone's who's half-Asian and can't always tell different Asian ethnicities apart, I think it would be better for Marvel to stick to Shang-Chi's Chinese roots and not try to make him and every other Asian character be a bunch of Pan-Asian composites.

 

[m2k]

I hope they can find somebody agile preferably from the mainland. Would love it if he's a skilled, possibly former gymnast/martial artist who's taking acting courses, of course. Lol..
Remember seeing Bruce for the first time in The Big Boss, Jet Li in Once Upon a Time in China, or even Tony Jaa in Ong Bak. My gosh, they took the international market by storm when they broke out. Imagine this scenario but combined with the power of the Marvel machine!

 

[Silvermoth]

I wonder which cities it will be set in? Shanghai I can see. Guilin would be fun. An international feel wouldn’t be bad either. I could see a scene in Australia working out really well and it’s about time marvel filmed here officially instead of a stand in!

 

[Tg11]

Shang Chi being in Phase Four almost guarantees if there is a New Avengers he will most likely join

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Is the worry that someone outside of China can't physically tell just how much of an Asian actor's DNA came from a specific part of a very large Chinese land mass or that culturally the Chinese market will reject someone not sufficiently linked to the correct Chinese ethnic group and keep their billions in their pockets compared to African Americans going all out for the Black Panther? There actually was some pre Black Panther grumbling about being just Black as good enough and the script's 6 tribes of Wakanda to cover for the physical differences between the mostly West, South, East and Central features of sub Saharan African peoples.

In any case I remember this martial arts instructor in China talking about how the cultural revolution brought an end to Kung Fu, beyond the theatrical wire fu as a studied art for defense and know in china most students take Olympic combat sports, judo, taekwondo and boxing.