Credit where credit is due, the trailers for MoS were impressive. They promised a very different film from what we were given. They sold MoS as something on par with a Nolan film.
It was like a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Really? I was honestly expecting what i got, with the possible exception of Clark's childhood, i expected them to be better handled than they were.
Very true, a lot of us fell for it. It was Nolan-esque in its presentation. Its delivery however.....
That's the thing, if the movie they're making is making you expect the type of product that the guy who made Batman delivers, then there's something wrong already. You can take inspiration, but you shouldn't try to copy what worked for Batman and apply it into Superman.
..That doesn't exactly prove that a film studio that makes/has made money off of films such The Hobbit, 300, The Hangover, Gravity, and more is "greedy" to make "Avengers money". WB can survive without "Avengers money". The original point still stands.
Sure, most great studios can survive without "Avengers Money", but why would a studio not want "Avengers money". After Avatar, most of them went looking for fool's gold in the 3D, for some films like Alice it ended up making them tons of money. Now certain films have a bigger chance at success due to this boost.
This is a very interesting time we're in. We've done a complete 180 in the faith of Zack Snyder. I mean, Nolan was God, who could do no wrong and there wasn't even a HINT, an OUNCE, a SMIDGEN of the hate I'm seeing on this board every single day. And yet we barely hear his name in regards to the fact that he wrote the story for Man of Steel. Not the script, the story. His fingerprints are all over that movie. And 99% of what David Goyer did with the Batman Begins script is indeed in the finished film.
We honestly don't know how large Nolan's involvement was, it seems like it was mostly him agreeing with Goyer's take and with the Director choice, then there are certain things that were changes without him knowing until it was too late, like Superman killing Zod. Not saying he would have made a better film, just that he didn't seem to have that much involvement.
I don't know... seems like we're making LOTS of excuses and trying to come up with easy, convenient ways to hate the living hell out of Zack Snyder, and I think it's unfair. The man is a good director, he directed a great movie, and the finished product is in part due to the involvement of Christopher Nolan and David Goyer, the same cats who gave us The Dark Knight Trilogy. I think this place needs to respect Snyder a little bit more.
No, people are not making excuses IMAO. He isn't exactly a good director, he's pretty much like Michael Bay, know how to deliver action, is in fact mostly interested in delivering action, but his execution when it comes to characters and emotions is shallow at best, using loud emotional songs in order to make the scene more emotional than it actually is.
Nolan had next to nothing when it comes to the finished product, he was only the key that opened the door for it being made. The writting was Goyer's fault, and the execution, like the endless shaky cam and close-up > unfocus > focus move.
I'll say it right now, Michael Bay and Zack Snyder both have potencial, they're professionals in certain areas, but they lack restraint. For that very reason they're guilty pleasures of mine, entertaining to watch but you have to ignore lots of problems.
You know what, I kinda do, lol. If that sounds crazy, so be it. I thought Man of Steel was phenomenal. If I were the only one on the planet who felt that way, I'd think the entire world was crazy. Maybe I'm delusional. I'm not really sure where the misfires were that you couldn't find similar examples of in The Avengers or Nolan's Trilogy.
Everything comes down to the execution, two film can have the same problems but one of them complementing it in a different way. I honestly found The Avengers boring, but it was a strong film and most people liked it, i would rather watcher The Man of Steel since it entertains me more, even if it is not a better film.
I think if you're subconsciously thinking "The guy who directed Sucker Punch, the guy who directed Sucker Punch, the guy who directed Sucker Punch," you're going to be watching a movie made by the guy who directed Sucker Punch.
If the film is good enough, then he can escape from that stigma, people to this day still complain about his Hulk film and say it with his name attached to the title, yet he's well regarded as a film director for making such great films like Brokeback Mountain and The Life of Pi
You know what I think about sometimes? What if Heath Ledger never died? Of course, the guy could still be with his daughter and that would be more important... but how many people on SHH would say that he completely missed the mark and was wrong for the role, gave a dreadful performance, etc.? In my opinion, it's one of the greatest, most important, most iconic performances of all-time, and I'm glad it's largely considered as such... But, I don't know. Take away one little element like, "He died", and, *shrugs*, most of the SHH crowd is jumping out of bushes with scythes and pitchforks.
The film had flaws, and the death helped the film get even more eyes on it, but i don't think people would regard it like the Man of Steel at all. It would still be viewed as a great film with some flaws like it already is.
I mean, I'm not much of a Snyder fan, to be honest. I think Watchmen is his best movie. Man of Steel comes second. I don't think he holds a candle to Nolan in any way, shape or form, but I do think he's better than Bay. And I do think Man of Steel was the best superhero movie of 2013, likely of 2014 too (lol).
Gotta disagree again, what he has different from Bay is that he doesn't have the same kind of insulting commedy, but when it comes to everything else they're around the same level. I'dd even say that Sucker Punch and The Man of Steel's look was worse than most of their usual films, that grey filter makes them look like a modern slasher and a ScyFy film respectivelly.
I know everybody likes to make their films "edgy and gritty" but enough is enough.
I'm actually one of those hardcore cinephiles who probably annoys the hell out of a lot of people. Give me Kubrick, Hitchcock, Malick, and Scorsese any day over Snyder. My favorite directors of all-time are (in order): Kubrick, Hitchcock, Malick, Scorsese, Fincher, Nolan, Aronofsky, P.T. Anderson, Spielberg, and Darabont.
I don't even think Snyder hits my Top 50. And truth be told, I was never really a Superman fan. This movie changed that for me.
No offense, but here on the internet, all the self titled "Patricians" i'm not even sure you are introductory level of hardcore cinephile
Neither am i, look at coments like this
Intelligence can be based on somebodies taste.
For example, compare a fan of Bergman, Resnais, Tarkovsky, or Fellini to a fan Nolan, Snyder, Bay, or Emmerich. It's obvious which fanbase will have the more intelligent members.
Stupid people are attracted to plebeian entertainment, and intelligent people are attracted to patrician entertainment.
(However people like * probably don't even know the first four names I mentioned despite how entry-level they are)
See what a true hardoce cinephile is?
They're the kind of people that just make you punch them in the face
(Mods, don't be afraid, this post isn't even from this forum, my objective is not to insult anyone
)
So, just from my perspective, maybe I'm trying to "call it like I see it"? I don't love the guy, but I don't think some of the hate is really warranted, either.
People like Bay, when somebody mentions their name, on the net everybody starts complaining, his name is often used as synonimous for bad. When somebody mention Zack Snyder, the opinion is much more divided. So now, he doesn't get any unwarranted hate, he has had plenty of opportunities with his films, and for many years, even those that now hate him, gave him a chance.
This is an excellent point. The TRUTH is, I watch all of the Marvel movies on a regular basis. I absolutely LOVE what Marvel Studios is doing.
And then I come on SHH, and all of these Marvel fanboys make me suddenly want to hate Marvel. Suddenly I'm writing posts I don't even know if I agree with. There are people on this site who really, really invoke hatred, and it's insanely unfortunate. This is such an amazingly awesome time. A time we'll probably never get again. We're getting literally everything, and if everything's not enough - BAM! - here's Ant-Man. Like, that's AWESOME.
Let's be fair, this is called "superherohype forums", so it's normal that most posters are going to be more byased towards certain things. I remember seeinf people love love Thor, yet, in another forums that wasn't for superhero movies, Thor being a bad film was a "fact" for most.
To me, a true fan should just love everything, good times and bad. Get excited for Marvel movies, get excited for DC movies. I'm personally EXTREMELY excited for The Amazing Spider-Man 2, yet some of the posts that are yanked from my fingertips in a rage would imply otherwise.
I think a LOT of people here are like that.
Once again, i disagree. A fan is a fan, some are biased and others are not. Above all else, fans shouldn't eat everything they are given blindly, criticism usually gives the makers a reason to improve upon their craft, and that is a good thing.
Except that mistakes are in the eye of the beholder. I was really disappointed in THE DARK WORLD. Epically disappointed. Has not stop it from making money or being praised be many a Marvel Studios fan. I wish my opinion carried the day... but such is life.
Criticism of the arts, expecially cinema, and even more true to blockbusters that follow more of a standart can be evaluated from objective and subjective means. That's how there is a line that separates the likes of The Room from The Godfather
I would argue a movie that matched the tone and implied structure of trailer 3 would be the best solo superhero movie of ALL time, combining the character aspect of Begins with a fully realized superhero genre.
I'd even go as far to say if the final product was near as good as capturing the emotions demonstrated in that trailer, it would be one of the truly GREAT films, period.
Once again, there's a problem, the fact that they were trying to apply what worked on Batman the first time around in Superman is usually not a good thing.
Agreed.
I think that's what Nolan initially intended for MOS to be.
Funny you mention that. One of Nolan's inspiration for Batman Begins was Superman: The Movie, he didn't think Burton's Batman was "Epic" enough and wanted to make the same type of complete origin story to Bruce Wayne.
Which is why The Man of Steel is almost a modern retelling of Superman + Superman II. Therefore, i think that the same type of mindset that went into Batman Begins would have worked better than what they did, which is, the same way BB looked into S: the movie for the structure, superman reboot should have looked into Batman 89 for the general way the film should be, expecially in the look, Metropolis deserved the type of treatment Gotham got there, taking inspiration from the German expressionismo movie.
But now i'm goin off topic and expressing something that is more of a personal preference, sorry about that.
Funny enough, I don't think Nolan makes emotional/character driven movies, generally speaking. A part of me thinks that he would have been an even better fit for Superman than Batman, based on his emphasis of Batman as a symbol and role model.
Well, he is about emotions, but in his films, it's the plot that orients it and the characters. That's why the characters sometimes talk more than they should, Nolan definitelly has to show more and tell less.
But at the same time, I feel like Goyer was torn between creating a strong adaptation and avoiding treaded territory.
I personally think the script was kind of underwritten BEFORE Snyder took the helms. Like it was a deflated balloon that needed new life breathed into it.
And instead of "new life" there are more complications and destruction.
I'm not even sure if the script was there before Snyder took over. There was definitelly a Superman movie script, but i think that the one for The Man of Steel itself was mostly Goyer's creation
I'm a fan of Snyder as well. In spite of my numerous criticisms of MoS I think that most of the problems were with the script, not the direction. I expect the next movie to be a step up, and I don't like how the nerdosphere bullies Snyder.
Uhm, there were plenty of problems when it comes to the direction IMAO, shaky cam, endless destruction that makes it probable that Superman's actions lead to some deaths, that close-up > unfocus > focus again combo that was used some 5 times in the very least and bad music placement, with the tune being constantly playing, then ending and starting over again, or being used in certain scenes as a way to tell us what we should feel.
Having said that, I've been a fan of Snyder's work thus far (except for Sucker Punch, mainly because I haven't seen it), and I think he has the potential to be a much better director once he's used to dealing with the source material over time. If Terrio's work ends up being leaps and bounds better than Goyer's original copy...I think Snyder will prevail.
Like Michael Bay he has potencial but doesn't learn. With a better script his film is still going to be very shallow, both have the tastes of 19 years olds on steroids, so when they try to make a smart movie they fail miserably (Sucker Punch)
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