The Dark Knight Rises Should "Realism" be lightened up a bit?

[Crook]

Anyways. Having now shared that with all you. I think most Nolan Batman fans misinterpret the realism thing. From what I've read of Nolan I've come to the conclusion that his idea of realism is to make the film believable enough that his audience forgets they're sitting in a movie theater. He's not trying to give us a Batman that after watching the movie we argue could exist in real life (because even his Batman couldn't), but give us something where we're not thinking "this only happens in movies" while we're actually watching the movie.

I completely disagree with this. There are dozens of scenes in TDK, that "only happen in movies". Anyone thinking otherwise has fantasy issues.

 

[Bathead]

What should be lightened up is some fans mistaken perception that Nolan's statement about the sense of realism be taken to be absolute, and that anything even remotely unreal be changed. Tha's not what he meant. Some years ago a popular Fantasy writer (I forgte who) said that although magic is totally unreal, the key to writing about magic in a fantasy story is that it have it's own internal consistency and logic within the framework of that particular story, and that is how the totally unreal becomes believable. That is what I believe Nolan is going for, not for total relaism. If he was, he would be directing a movie about a real person, not a fantastic person like Batman.

 

[namtaB]

What should be lightened up is some fans mistaken perception that Nolan's statement about the sense of realism be taken to be absolute, and that anything even remotely unreal be changed.

I agree. Its hard to accept absolute realism when a guy dressed up as a Bat says this:

*grrrrrr* "If I get him to you, can you get him to talk?" *grrrrrr*

 

[SheldonLevene]

I agree. Its hard to accept absolute realism when a guy dressed up as a Bat says this:

*grrrrrr* "If I get him to you, can you get him to talk?" *grrrrrr*

What

 

[General Vulcun]

Simply put: if it's a movie, it's not realistic. This much should be obvious.

 

[Doc Samson]

1) Wondering what BATMAN will screw up next is a good thing?

Lol, absolutely. Well, maybe not a good thing, but compelling no doubt.

2) I don't know anyone who honestly believes the superhero won't win out in the end. I think that's exaggeration. Yes, TDK's ending was more open-ended in this regard, but he still won the battle.

I wouldn't say so. He stopped the immediate threat, but in doing so he killed his former ally, was indirectly responsible for having his childhood love killed, and is now recognized as a murderer. Hardly a victory, just as he destroyed his father's legacy both in spirit by demolishing the train (no matter if it was rebuilt or not) and also by acting as a buffoon in BB, doing exactly the opposite of what Alfred asked of him only minutes earlier.

So yes, these qualities, demeaning himself for the greater good, may save the day, but it also alienates him more with each film, a very adult & dare I say, realistic approach, not seen before in any previous Batman or most other comic films for that matter. I would say the realism (or whatever we wish to call it) comes through in these moments, where ramifications over his vigilante actions come to fruition and have real consequences, not the physics of floating in the air with wings on your back or rigging explosives on ferries...

 

[Crook]

Lol, absolutely. Well, maybe not a good thing, but compelling no doubt.

Not being perfect is compelling. I don't know if "screwing up" would be the right term to describe it though. That just makes him sound incompetent.

I wouldn't say so. He stopped the immediate threat, but in doing so he killed his former ally, was indirectly responsible for having his childhood love killed, and is now recognized as a murderer. Hardly a victory, just as he destroyed his father's legacy both in spirit by demolishing the train (no matter if it was rebuilt or not) and also by acting as a buffoon in BB, doing exactly the opposite of what Alfred asked of him only minutes earlier.

Well, you're looking at the negatives here. He still stopped the Joker from wreaking havoc to an entire city, and saved Gordon's family. That's a major accomplishment.

So yes, these qualities, demeaning himself for the greater good, may save the day, but it also alienates him more with each film, a very adult & dare I say, realistic approach, not seen before in any previous Batman or most other comic films for that matter.

I would say Batman Returns accomplished this, albeit on a smaller scale. Watchmen on a comparable one, if not bigger.

I would say the realism (or whatever we wish to call it) comes through in these moments, where ramifications over his vigilante actions come to fruition and have real consequences, not the physics of floating in the air with wings on your back or rigging explosives on ferries...

As I said, Bruce won the battle. Not necessarily the war. In fact, I'd rather he lose the war in the end. It's only fitting.

 

[TheBatman072]

As I said, Bruce won the battle. Not necessarily the war. In fact, I'd rather he lose the war in the end. It's only fitting.

You can't win the war he's fighting. All you CAN do is win the small battles here and there.

Like Batman and Joker's exchange in Batman: Black and White Vol. 2.

Joker: You're crazy, you know?
Batman: I'M crazy?
Joker: Sure I have one or two small delusions, but you actually think you can STOP crime.
Batman: What are you talking about? I stop crime every night.


I honestly don't think that even BATMAN can win the war he's fighting. He's doing this because it's something he feels he HAS to do. Or otherwise he might go crazy himself. Just something he needs and CAN contribute to his city.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

I seriously hate the Bat-Fans now with the almost Nazi like stance they have on the current franchise. They consider Nolan a god (which is fine) but they have taken this, "OMG!! BATMAN IS TEH REALZ!" business too far. It's actually hurting the franchise and preventing creativity as the fans are against any villain or character who isn't just a guy with a gun and a sick sense of humor or some other REAL trait...

I don't want a Poision Ivy with monster plants at her disposal... but an arsenal of exotic poisons and maybe even a collection of veoumous creatures that she unleashes on the populace would be fine... It's called BIO-WARFARE...
You know who her front runner could be? A dude with a nasty and very real infection who had his teeth sharpened (Google "snake man". He was on Ripley's Believe...) and calls himself KILLER CROC....

I would love this conversation a the movie:
Croc: So there Bats was... snooping around my turf...
Ivy: What did you do then?
Croc: I threw a rock at him!

But no... the fans still won't be satisfied...

Hell I came up with an idea to incorporate Superman on a NON-BATMAN thread and the response was pretty positive. Here it is...

Topic was Wonder Woman's invisible jet. We decided a prototype jet with reflective camouflage would be best

I don't think Nolan would mind... It does not diminish his movies in any way...
In fact it makes Bruce much more intelligent....
If Bale's Batman ever found out Superman exists... he would immediately work out a contingency plan and keep tabs on him 24/7, contact STAR LABS and even his business buddy Lex Luthor... Later after he meets the blue boy scout and realizes he can be trusted, he laxes a bit...

I would imagine Supes enlisting Bat's help to recruit more heroes...
Same with WW. I would imagine Supes and Bats too already know each other by the time WW arrives on the scene. Supes suggests sending her a message of sorts and Bruce seeing her as a trustworthy and pure person gives her the jet...

 

[Duneboy]

No, realism shouldn't be taken "down a notch" or "lightened up a bit". If we were to do that we'd be reverting back to the late 80's/early 90's. Besides, a lot if not ALL comic book/superhero properties get the pg-13 rating anyways.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

Fine... enjoy your Batman-less Justice League film then ....
WB would never dare recast or reboot with what Nolan has done for them...

 

[Duneboy]

And thats fine. JL is primarily metahumans anyway. Batman's more along the lines or noir, mystery, & suspense themes. And of course action.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

Google justice league...
You need your head examined...

JL without Batman is like Green Lantern without Guy Gardner or Kyle Rayner
Oh and by the way...

DC Trinity

Superman: Spirit of Hope
Wonder Woman: Spirit of Truth
Batman: Spirit of Justice

And that's canon...

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Google justice league...
And that's canon...

And not just canon, it's staple. Anyone who thinks Batman is merely a noir, mystery and crime character is kidding themselves.

Actually, that's the direction I'd love for them to take with the next Batmovie: noir. I'm not huge on the more realistic approach here, but I'd love to see the whole fog, smoke and lighting amongst Gotham. We're talking along the lines of the Long Halloween, not the more Gothic style of the burton movies.

 

[Daredevil_2003]

I agree with bringing back the spookiness to Gotham. Batman Begins had a much better ambiance to Gotham, without becoming a surreal fantasy land. They need to go back to that.

 

[baerrtt]

I seriously hate the Bat-Fans now with the almost Nazi like stance they have on the current franchise. They consider Nolan a god (which is fine) but they have taken this, "OMG!! BATMAN IS TEH REALZ!" business too far. It's actually hurting the franchise and preventing creativity as the fans are against any villain or character who isn't just a guy with a gun and a sick sense of humor or some other REAL trait...

I don't want a Poision Ivy with monster plants at her disposal... but an arsenal of exotic poisons and maybe even a collection of veoumous creatures that she unleashes on the populace would be fine... It's called BIO-WARFARE...
You know who her front runner could be? A dude with a nasty and very real infection who had his teeth sharpened (Google "snake man". He was on Ripley's Believe...) and calls himself KILLER CROC....

I would love this conversation a the movie:
Croc: So there Bats was... snooping around my turf...
Ivy: What did you do then?
Croc: I threw a rock at him!

But no... the fans still won't be satisfied...

Hell I came up with an idea to incorporate Superman on a NON-BATMAN thread and the response was pretty positive. Here it is...

True and Nolan mentioned, around the time of BB, blockbusters like THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, BLADE RUNNER, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, Donner's SUPERMAN even THE SPY WHO LOVED ME as examples of fantastical movies that still had a sense of reality to them compared to their many modern counterparts(the films of Michael Bay for example).

Nolan doesn't dislike fantasy concepts in his own work (THE PRESTIGE) so it wouldn't surprise me if he chose to add the more 'supernatural' elements of the mythology to a future entry, and here's the thing, make it work so audiences aren't rolling their eyes.

 

[craigaat]

True and Nolan mentioned, around the time of BB, blockbusters like THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, BLADE RUNNER, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, Donner's SUPERMAN even THE SPY WHO LOVED ME as examples of fantastical movies that still had a sense of reality to them compared to their many modern counterparts(the films of Michael Bay for example).

Nolan doesn't dislike fantasy concepts in his own work (THE PRESTIGE) so it wouldn't surprise me if he chose to add the more 'supernatural' elements of the mythology to a future entry, and here's the thing, make it work so audiences aren't rolling their eyes.

100% agree.

 

[Duneboy]

I've been a Batman & comic fan since '89 so I don't think I need my head examined. I love JL too but do you honestly feel that these films need to be lightened up? F*** that! I hope WB stays in the route that they mentioned months back 'bout doing these adaptations w/ that realism & gritty style (like DK or Constantine). With a pg-13 rating I seriously doubt it needs to be lightened up any. Anorexicbatman I think you need to lighten up.

 

[S.A.A.D.]

I like Nolan's Batman movies,but I think they are bombastic,why?
They are IMO visually unstriking and uncool,too serious,and too grounded in realism and plausibility. I respect what he's done but not 100%. They are very good if you want a super serious,plausible and realistic Batman movie that is actually respectful to the comic books based on him to watch. He has good ideas,but to me,he makes them seem like no one else could have thought of them. I'll still watch the next Batman movie of course.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I've been a Batman & comic fan since '89 so I don't think I need my head examined. I love JL too but do you honestly feel that these films need to be lightened up? F*** that! I hope WB stays in the route that they mentioned months back 'bout doing these adaptations w/ that realism & gritty style (like DK or Constantine). With a pg-13 rating I seriously doubt it needs to be lightened up any. Anorexicbatman I think you need to lighten up.

What's so wrong about lightening up? Why would you want all superhero adaptations to take on a grim and gritty route? That's not Superman, that's not Green Lantern, that's not Wonder Woman etc. And in many cases that's not Batman. What is it with people that think darkness will equal good storytelling? Brave and the Bold is easily my favourite cartoon right now and it achieved greatness without darkness. I would hate to see a grim and gritty Supermna film. Superman is about hope. Screw darkness, I'll take a good, inspiring story over that anyday, and only take darkness when it suits.

 

[Rincewind]

Actually, Superman=hope could work better in thematically darker environment.

 

[SuperFerret]

The setting can be darker relative to Superman, but Metropolis is not Gotham, and the overall theme of the film should be hopeful.

 

[Bonovox]

The realism works in this series. I haven't had too many problems with it, and I think the next film will be fine without having to dive into the supernatural. Maybe the next set of films after the third one could experiment more with supernatural elements, perhaps include a few villains Nolan otherwise won't touch. But for now, it works, and I think it is what makes this new Batman franchise relatable to a whole new generation.

 

[Duneboy]

I was talking about the batman film franchise specifically. I said nothing 'bout Superman, green lantern, or wonder woman. Those I think you'd have to have a sense of fantasy/sci fi in them to make them work. By the way, I happen to love the new 'brave & bold cartoon', & no you certainly don't need to make every adaptation grim & gritty but it should very well be grounded in 'reality' even if delving into elements of fantasy or sci fi. And by the way, I happen to love the supernatural & hope to see it used to maximum effect in other properties.

 

[RockyBatboa]

Yes.