The Dark Knight Should they show Joker's origin (or backstory) or not?

[P.B.&Chocolate]

It think there shouldn't be a complete Joker orgin shown just what's necessary to the story . I think if there is a complete orgin story it will be like a repeat of Batman 89 and Begins . I want to see the story pickup from where Begins left off with Batman being a dectective and finding out about the Joker through his crimes and there being a huge third act confortation between them .

 

[The Jengeneer]

Second post t: How's this sound?

Film starts with Rachel Dawes strapped to a chair and someone in the dark telling her a horridly sick joke while holding a deck of cards. Rachel's clearly an emotional wreck while the joke ends and the guy starts laughing in a creepy way. Then he moves on to the limelight suddenly... we all hope to see the joker but... he's wearing a red hood He hears a noise on the outside and decides... it's time to end the job and finish off with the woman that led to his condemnation as guilty and eventually got sent to Arkham [where he was tortured by some Dr. Jonathan Crane ]. He tells her another joke while holding a carving knife on her lips... finally the window smashes open but there's only rachel there... dead and with a joker card put on her chest, while the face is not shown, Batman is shocked by the sight of dead Rachel, hinting on horrific disfigurement, and then infuriated. He chases the guy in the red hood throughout the rooftops of Gotham to a factory: Ace Chemicals Processing Inc. and after a chase inside the factory he gets him in his hands. But in a mist of fury, while the guy in the red hood tells another sick joke to him, Batman throws him in the chemicals, cursing and hoping for his agonizing death!...

After moving on a couple of months we find Gordon, Batman and newly appointed D.A Harvey Dent trying to bring down the new head mobster Boss Moroni, through information by an english arms dealer, new in town but highly connected Oswald 'The Penguin' Cobblepot. Batman is also tortured by his conciense, hearing that guy in the red hood screaming as he was being burned by the acid, when suddenly someone called 'The Joker' holds Gordon's wife [and kid(s)?] hostages and demands for Batman, dead or alive. After his apprehention [u know usual action movie stuff t: ] he returns to Arkham where he meets his new shrink... Dr. Harleen Quinzel

So, we got a motive making Batman HATING the Joker and the Joker HATING Batman, no flashbacks on any character other than Bruce Wayne, a good story, Harvey Dent rise to power, more dark grittiness t:

Maybe spice it up with a socialite appearing in town named Selina Kyle, Bruce Wayne struggling wether to move on and get this fancy musterious woman or stay stuck in the past of Rachel Dawes (more flashbacks starring Katie Holmes, gotta keep her happy as well lol) and a series of mysterious burglaries Batman doesn't have the time to investigate???

 

[comic_guy04]

I like that but I dont think even batman would kill in a rage. He'd rather the red hood be put to justice and rot in a cell. so I think the better thing would be to have the red hood jump willingly in a desperate escape. And only after his own plunge into insanity should he develop an obsession for Batman, instead of having a grudge.

 

[cranston52]

There were several discrepancies in Burton's "BATMAN" that I never agreed with. First and foremost having the Joker, as a young Jack Napier, be the killer of Thomas and Martha Wayne. Any real Batman fan knows that it was Joey Chill (Thanks Chris Nolan for honoring the truth) who performed the dastadly deed. But I DO realize the need to rewrite history for the sake of tightening the plot. After all the movie does not have unlimited time to sort out all the details as they actually happened in the comics. Secondly as a plot device I understand Burton's desire to display the "ying/yang" relationship of Batman and the Joker. Don't agree with it, just understand it.
Next, the acid bath. In the orginal 1950's story, the Joker, as the Red Hood was pursued by Batman and it was the Monarch Playing Card Company, NOT Axis chemicals. The Red Hood dove into the industrial waste to avoid capture. As said previously this took place 10 years after the Joker made his first appearance.
While I'm in favor of a well told Joker origin I think I would rather not see it the first time around. After all, Batman himself did not lead off with his origin story in Detective 27; not until 6 comics later in Detective 33. I feel that the mystery of the Joker's origin should be reserved for maybe his second screen appearance, 3 or 4 movies down the road.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Well I don't want to see like that in done in TDK, the new franchise shouldn't be copying from Batman 89.

Well yes I don't want a shot-for-shot remake of "Batman 89' " like the "Psycho" remake, but I mean something along those lines. Either have Batman try to save him, push him, or he decides to escape by plunging over the railing into the vat of chemicals.

Then, once he gets out of the chemicals when someone asks him how he got the way he was he could just smile really big, "Multiple choice." Then they'd ask what do you mean he could either say society did it, Batman did it, or he just shoots the guy in the head.

But as I said before...

I want little pieces of his life like what they did with Bruce's past.

Show me him as a boy being abused by his drunk dad and living with a crack****e of a mom in a trailer park or rundown apartment.

Show him in college where he indulges and panders himself more into reading joke books and practicing his comedy act than he does with learning biochemistry and other required classes for his major.

Then, show him as a standup comedian doing terribly on stage. Show the audience walking out on him, booing him, and being disruptive. He goes home to his apartment and to his pregnant wife, and finds out he'll be thrown out on his butt soon because he got the last eviction notice and hasn't been paying his rent.

Show him hating his dead-end job at the Wayne Chemical Plant and hating the fact that his wife and the people at the comedy club don't appreciate his act.

Knowing he'll be thrown out soon and having to take care of a new mother to be, he does some jobs for the Falcones or Maronis. When his initiation comes to fully join the Falcones or Maronis, he dons a red ski mask and they nickname him the Red Hood, his wife dies (like in Alan Moore's book), and then he starts to want out of the mob. Falcone or Maroni finds this unacceptable and then pushes him into the chemical vat altering his hair, smile, and skin.

If Falcone or Maroni doesn't do it, then Batman interferes with the initiation, takes down Falcone's or Maroni's men, and then comes after The Red Hood. From there he realizes his only option is to jump into the vat of chemicals. When he gets out of the vat like I said if someone asks him how he got to be who he was he could simply tell them he was either pushed, thrown in, or "multiple choice."

 

[The Jengeneer]

Well I thought it would be cool to show the Red Hood [not knowing who the joker really is or how he looked like before his disfigurement] and then Batman out of furious insane anger for killing Rachel [best motive to label the guy his arch nemesis, hatred] makes him by throwing him into the chemicals. By thinking that he killed him we could have a consiousness crisis, giving Batman as a character more depth and vowing not to kill anyone again for any reason, hence in the long run enhancing Batman's policy never to kill again. He did establish that policy in BB up against Ra's but this will definitely give a rock-solid reason for the audience to feel.
Also this keeps the widely spread idea of the chemicals making the Joker looking that mess he is [emphasized in The Killing Joke where i think it was Ace Chemicals and not Axis Chemicals] and makes the audience feel the Joker's hatred towards Batman and vice versa, hence feeling the intense rivalry. This insident, IMHO, is essential to the film to give the main villain more depth as a character. And its essential not to appear again until he's back after a long mysterious recovery and holds hostage Gordon's wife. He kills her too in the stand-off with the police until Batman intervenes and right at the last moment he's got a choice again to kill him... but he doesn't this time, choosing to deliver him to the police and to Arkham subsequently [would be cool to incorporate the final joke in The Killing Joke if DC Comics permit t: ]
Moving on to the third film where the trial for the Joker takes place... guess who gave the Joker a bottle of acid??? The Joker in his insanity vows to show someone... anyone what made him like this and his new personal shrink got him a little, carryable bottle of acid, to aid his escape and follow him. Poor Harvey Dent was the Jokers courthouse victim and in the confusion The Joker escapes... vanishes for maybe a further movie down the road t:

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Nice to see his apology on the New Year thread for being a jerk was utterly sincere!

Well, he IS Morgoth, after all. He posts in here and I exorcise him and we get on with life. It happens once or twice a year.

I actually went back to BOF and looked that up and these were really quite old reports from Jett's insiders. Given what Heath said about how little is known about the Joker and 'it's left that way' (I'm assuming he means TDK) I think the origin thing might be, well, bunk.

Well, that's cool then. I mean I have no real need to see Joker's origin. If it's there it's there; if it's not, it's not.

And seriously... next time I need to do some research for a book, I should get you to help me. I'm convinced if a piece of information is out there, you can find it.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I don't want an entire backstory and for him to not become the Joker until an hour in. A brief rundown would be cool.