Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

[Milk Tray Guy]

How do we know the DCEU Batman isn't centuries old too with the same amount of experience, and also has the powers and memories of every member of the JL including Superman? He might even have actually been Steve Trevor in the WW movie as well as Diana.

Spoiler

Well actually Steve Trevor's [BLACKOUT]apparent death[/BLACKOUT] did remind me of [BLACKOUT]the climax of The Dark Knight Rises[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Dark Raven]

Spoiler

Well actually Steve Trevor's [BLACKOUT]apparent death[/BLACKOUT] did remind me of [BLACKOUT]the climax of The Dark Knight Rises[/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

Well Batman likes to use the same tricks over and over again. Why reinvent the wheel? Didn't Batman invent WW's lasso and bracelets too? I'm pretty sure that's canonical.

 

[Supa]

Well Batman likes to use the same tricks over and over again. Why reinvent the wheel? Didn't Batman invent WW's lasso and bracelets too? I'm pretty sure that's canonical.

And that's not even getting into the part in DC history where when Jesus Christ resurrected and said to his followers "I shall become a bat!"

 

[Superchan]

I agree with the comment in bold, and I don't have the facts to refute anything else you've said - other to say that B v S has done some harm to Superman's popularity, the characterisation of Superman in that film has been widely criticized (personally, I think Cavill could be a great Superman if the character was written properly).

Totally agree, MOS and especially BvS did a hell of alot of damage to superman's image, infact it's been non stop since superman III!! Luckily STAS, Superboy TV show, L&C, Death of superman and Smallville kept superman alive because lets face it the character hasn't had a good movie since 1981!

As some have mentioned, the recent TV version of Superman, in Supergirl, created a lot of positive attention for the character - sadly DC don't seem to have capitalized on it as much as they could.

Agreed but to be honest a guest appearance on a middling CW show isn't going to bring superman back to the forefront, only a good movie will.

So is Superman's popularity "in the toilet" ? You've raised plenty of stats that suggest this isn't true. Honestly, I don't think it's entirely true, as Superman is a character of such iconic status that he will always retain a fan base.

Agreed, Superman is alot like Mickey Mouse, the character will stay afloat thanks to it's iconic status.
All the stats I provided are 100% true and Superman remains remarkably popular for a character that hasn't had a good film in over 35 years but one has to wonder how long can the character continue to survive (instead of thrive) off it's own legend.

However, if we only look at popularity in terms of these characters and their reception by the critics and general audience as of right now - then we must accept that right now Wonder Woman is DC's top character. Sure Batman will always have the greatness of TDK as part of his legacy, and Superman has Superman the Movie but today, right now is Wonder Woman's time.

100% agree and you know what I'm glad that it's Wondy's time because she's been more or less ignored for 75 years and this is coming from a guy who worships superman and could careless about Diana.

Also, again only looking at recent big screen movies, Superman is suffering in comparison to Captain America and Iron Man.....even to Dr Strange and Ant Man.

Again I agree, infact Superman has and will continue to suffer opposite ANY superhero that has a good movie until superman himself gets the respect he deserves i.e. a director who doesn't turn the character into a mopey, mute cardboard cutup of it's self under the guise of making him 'relatable'.

The big question for Superman is whether anyone will give him a film of the same quality of Winter Soldier or Batman Begins (as you mentioned) ? Let's hope so !

There is plenty of interest from top talent directors like JJ Abrahams, Vaughn (sadly this looks unlikely now), Bayona, Darren Arafanosky and even Patty Jenkins but the question is whether WB have learned from WW's success that superman needs color, fun, hope and optimism as opposed to what we got thus far.

The question of whether Wonder Woman will receive such treatment has already been answered. I think that such a strong start deserves swift follow-up, which is why I feel that Wonder Woman should be the lead character of the DCEU, build on her success and use it to launch other characters (kind of like the MCU did with the runaway success of Iron Man - let's face it Tony is the de facto main character of the Avengers - it's only after Winter Soldier that Cap has anywhere near Tony's level of popularity, and the two of them carry Marvel's best film, IMO, together.

Yeah I personally don't want to see psycho batman or mopey superman lead this DCEU, WW is my pick also.

Having said all that, I understand how you can be annoyed by people's comments and strongly disagree with each other but we can all still be civil to each other too. I'm guilty of resorting to occasional sarcasm myself (the lowest form of wit).

True that, like I said in my previous post I'm perfectly ok with people posting their opinions but I get irritated when they start passing such opinions as facts without proper evidence.

 

[ernesth100]

No one should be the lead character. A shared universe should have each character get spotlight when needed.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

I suppose Superman's the other contemporary choice. Cavill's Superman hasn't exactly impressed me so far. Wonder Woman seems less likely to jump to killing people than both Bats and Supes so far.

Never mind that in the Wonder Woman movie she killed more people than in all the Batman and Superman movies combined. And that's factoring in if you think Superman killed the Kryptonians in Superman 2 and Batman killed
the goons in the warehouse in Batman 1989 or Ra's ninjas in Batman Begins.

Totally agree, MOS and especially BvS did a hell of alot of damage to superman's image, infact it's been non stop since superman III!! Luckily STAS, Superboy TV show, L&C, Death of superman and Smallville kept superman alive because lets face it the character hasn't had a good movie since 1981!

Agreed but to be honest a guest appearance on a middling CW show isn't going to bring superman back to the forefront, only a good movie will.

Despite your opinion of Supergirl, the show did get a lot of positive media attention for Superman. With lots of writers of the opinion that Hoechlin's Superman was superior to the DCEU universe version.
And over 3 million people watched those episodes. So it's not like no one knew about that version of Superman.

 

[Strong Browman]

The question here is about the DCEU. Bale is gone. Why don't we compare her to Schumaker's Batman? That's about as relevant as what you're saying what we should do

I'm saying compare her to a well recieved Batman, she's only more popular than Batfleck because he was widely seen as OOC. Affleck's acting was largely praised but the writing of his character wasn't all he needs is to be written more like people are used to and his popularity will rise. WW being more popular than Batman and Superman in their current incarnations is nothing to be proud of imo.

If Batman and Superman got the same writing Wonder Woman has gotten we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Superchan]

Never mind that in the Wonder Woman movie she killed more people than in all the Batman and Superman movies combined. And that's factoring in if you think Superman killed the Kryptonians in Superman 2 and Batman killed
the goons in the warehouse in Batman 1989 or Ra's ninjas in Batman Begins.



Despite your opinion of Supergirl, the show did get a lot of positive media attention for Superman. With lots of writers of the opinion that Hoechlin's Superman was superior to the DCEU universe version.
And over 3 million people watched those episodes. So it's not like no one knew about that version of Superman.

please read my previous post carefully I didn't say I don't like the show, infact I loved Superman's portrayal even in the season final but 3 million viewers is nothing to write home about and certainly isn't enough to turn the negativity surrounding the character around.

 

[BH/HHH]

please read my previous post carefully I didn't say I don't like the show, infact I loved Superman's portrayal even in the season final but 3 million viewers is nothing to write home about and certainly isn't enough to turn the negativity surrounding the character around.

I will say this though if DC TV had capitalised on those appearances and done a Superman TV show I reckon the buzz would have been incredible. Especially given what TV has done for the Flash.

 

[Superchan]

I will say this though if DC TV had capitalised on those appearances and done a Superman TV show I reckon the buzz would have been incredible. Especially given what TV has done for the Flash.

I honestly think a superman tv show is a poor consolation prize, I want a mathew vaughn directed masterpiece that brings our boy back to the superhero crown and I will not accept any substitutes.

 

[BH/HHH]

I honestly think a superman tv show is a poor consolation prize, I want a mathew vaughn directed masterpiece that brings our boy back to the superhero crown and I will not accept any substitutes.

I'd take a quality TV show over a quality film tbh. I already have many Superman films I love but I want a TV show that gives me hours of the Superman I love. If I got a live action TV show that was like STAS I'd be satisfied for life.

Each to there own of course. Although in this day and age there's no reason why we can't have both.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Hmmmm...... it's difficult to really separate the IMO poor characterisation of Batman, as an easily manipuated paranoid psychopath, from Affleck's performance.

Both Ben and GG were convincingly badass in their respective roles, but it takes more than that to bring a character to life and make them someone we can engage with as an audience

Did Affleck really get as much praise as GG ? I honestly don't know so I cannot refute what you've said. However, while Affleck carried part of B v S, and IMO not all that well (again, maybe just the terrible way he was written) in contrast GG carried the whole WW film and did an amazing job.


Personally, I thought she was the best thing about the WW film - she really carries it, as a lot of the other characters were very 2D and one-note (especially the villains).

I think that JL will really show us whether Batman or WW are going to be the DCEU's lead character - although to me that really just means that their character is the focal point for team movies.

Although I have high hopes for Ezra Miller's Flash and Momoa's Aquaman !

Time will tell I guess, but based on current events I can't see anything wrong with making WW the DC equivalent of the MCU's Captain America - while Batman fills the same role as Iron Man.

That's just incorrect.

I was speaking of both the reviews of BvS (most of which acknowledged Affleck's performance as Batman was the best part of the film) and the same was said by most fans that I saw discussing the movie.

WW is beating Batman very, very comfortably in this poll, which has a large number of voters. There are WW spoilers in the link, I should add. I am not aware of any polls with a similar number of voters where Batfleck comes out on top.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/DarthFreds...-opinons-2j1dk?utm_term=.wrlVKzDo7#.aiWvE50bN

Of course she is, her movie just came out and Gal was fantastic in it. As I said I think people took issue with Ben's characterization (which wasn't up to him), but I never saw his performance criticized.

Wonder Woman was probably the most liked thing about BvS, but Batman wasn't far behind.

Like someone else said, Superman and Batman haven't been their traditional selves in the DCEU. Wonder Woman has been.

If "The Batman" gets the same response Wonder Woman got, with a more traditional Batman, I bet this wouldn't even be a question.

This is kind of what I've been trying to get at.

 

[Slade W]

I'm saying compare her to a well recieved Batman, she's only more popular than Batfleck because he was widely seen as OOC.

Why should she be compared to a well received Batman (Batfeck was well received btw)? This thread is discussing the characters within the DCEU. Characters outside it are not relevant.

Affleck's acting was largely praised but the writing of his character wasn't all he needs is to be written more like people are used to and his popularity will rise.

I agree with this.

WW being more popular than Batman and Superman in their current incarnations is nothing to be proud of imo.

I disagree with this, regarding Batman. Batfleck has consistently finished second in polls asking who the best Batman is, with only Bale consistently beating him. Beating Batfleck, who going by these polls is considered the 2nd best Batman, is impressive IMO.

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/poll-who-is-the-best-movie-batman/

http://collider.com/best-batman-actors-poll/

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasminnaha...movie-opinions?utm_term=.xqkJP3b1G#.xj9QvJgWG

If Batman and Superman got the same writing Wonder Woman has gotten we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Probably. They are the more popular characters in general.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

I'd take a quality TV show over a quality film tbh. I already have many Superman films I love but I want a TV show that gives me hours of the Superman I love. If I got a live action TV show that was like STAS I'd be satisfied for life.

Each to there own of course. Although in this day and age there's no reason why we can't have both.

How would a Superman TV show be any different than the current Supergirl TV show, especially if it is a Berlanti show? All they would be doing is
substituting a male character for a female character. You are still going to get all the romance BS and the side character getting lots of screen time.
If any character deserves their own TV show again it would be Wonder Woman. Then there would be something different than what is already on TV.

 

[Panacea]

Really? GG is incredibly likable and charismatic, she was clearly the best thing about the film as well as either the best or second best thing about BvS.

In your opinion sure, but even if we are to take that as fact, playing a likeable character is not going to make up for her shortcomings as an actress. She struggled to carry Wonder Woman without Chris Pine doing the heavy lifting, it would be unfair to expect her to figurehead a multi-billion dollar cinematic universe, especially with much more seasoned pros either side of her.

If they aren't moving in the direction of having GG/WW be the lead in the DCEU, what direction are they moving in?

I imagine a lot will depend on whether Ben wants to continue in the role or not, but I can't say I've ever got the sense they they were ever planning to move forward with her as the primary protagonist.

 

[BH/HHH]

How would a Superman TV show be any different than the current Supergirl TV show, especially if it is a Berlanti show? All they would be doing is
substituting a male character for a female character. You are still going to get all the romance BS and the side character getting lots of screen time.
If any character deserves their own TV show again it would be Wonder Woman. Then there would be something different than what is already on TV.

Well for a start it's focused on Superman an experienced one at that. There would be different character interactions altogether with Lois Lane, Perry White etc.

Wonder Woman would be more similar to Supergirl imo. But you know what each to their own. Neither of us are right or wrong.

 

[Batmannerism]

Well for a start it's focused on Superman an experienced one at that. There would be different character interactions altogether with Lois Lane, Perry White etc.

Wonder Woman would be more similar to Supergirl imo. But you know what each to their own. Neither of us are right or wrong.

I would totally watch a Berlanti Superman showt with Tyler H as Superman.....provided it didn't follow the Flash pattern and have Superman need pep talks all the time or have his friends constantly turning out to be his enemies in disguise.

 

[Zant]

For the love of God...NO to Superman or WonderWoman live action shows. No need to over saturate the characters. Let people anticipate them on the big screen.

The Wonder Woman NBC pilot failing is one of the best things to happen to the Wonder Woman film.

 

[Dark Raven]

I don't want another WW TV show at the moment. I remember they were trying to do that "Amazon" show on the CW. Glad that never materialised. I'm also glad the David E Kelly pilot flopped. That was absolutely terrible.

I prefer to see WW on the big screen for now, especially since this is a great version.

 

[Zant]

I don't want another WW TV show at the moment. I remember they were trying to do that "Amazon" show on the CW. Glad that never materialised. I'm also glad the David E Kelly pilot flopped. That was absolutely terrible.

I prefer to see WW on the big screen for now, especially since this is a great version.

Oh man, an Amazon prequel show? never heard of it. Yikes..so many dodged bullets for Diana.

I do remember that planned Flying Graysons show......DC-TV should take things slow.

 

[Dark Raven]

Oh man, an Amazon prequel show? never heard of it. Yikes..so many dodged bullets for Diana.

I do remember that planned Flying Graysons show......DC-TV should take things slow.

Yeah, I don't know if it was completely set on the island, but probably not. I imagine it would've been typical CW. Maybe like Smallville, with Diana moving to a city and starting up a new life there and calling herself the red-blue skirt.

In fact here is a link:

http://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-tv-show-amazon-cw-canceled/

And here is a link to the auditions for the pilot (which was never made):

http://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-tv-show-audition-details/

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I do remember that planned Flying Graysons show......DC-TV should take things slow.

They were seriously considering that?

 

[Dark Raven]

They were seriously considering that?

Yep. It was to be called "The Graysons", which just sounds like the name of a soap opera:

http://variety.com/2008/scene/markets-festivals/cw-tosses-plans-for-graysons-1117995430/

The one-hour "Graysons" was to be set in modern times and focus on young DJ as he faced challenges involving first loves, young rivals and his family - a famous juggling act - as he grew up. (In Batman lore, Grayson was part of a family act called "The Flying Graysons" and orphaned after a gangster had his parents killed.)

Dick was to be called DJ, probably because they thought the name "Dick" wouldn't hold up.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Dick was to be called DJ, probably because they thought the name "Dick" wouldn't hold up.

Well in light of that line in The Lego Batman Movie they were probably right!

 

[Dark Raven]

Well in light of that line in The Lego Batman Movie they were probably right!

What was the line?

That was probably the same reasoning in The Dark Knight Rises. He was "Robin" John Blake, and not "Dick" John Blake.

If there is a Lego WW movie, I hope it's not with Cobie Smulders. I'm glad Joss Whedon never managed to cast her in his WW movie.