Should Wonder Woman be the lead character of the DCEU?

[The Batman]

From a business pov it's obviously been good for Fox, but for me personally it's been a bit of a bind. Much as I love Jackman's portrayal I've wanted to see the X-Men show they can stand - and win - without Wolverine.

Yup. I'm very excited for a Jackman/Wolverine-less X-Universe. Deadpool already showed fox that Wolverine isn't mandatory for success.

 

[Juan1193]

There's a reason they were called the SUPER friends, not WONDER friends.

Superman is the foundation for the DC universe as well as the Justice League. This has never been up for debate. You can remove Batman and Wonder Woman from the equation and the concept would still work. It wouldn't be as good but it would still work.

Without Superman though the whole thing would feel incomplete.

Spoken like a true fan boy lol Superman's popularity is in the toilet and he's not really liked among my generation. He doesn't have any hit video game franchise, no animated series, his last 3 (technically 5) movies have been mediocre to bad and he was recently portrayed as a villain in DC's most popular video game series. Did you not see that buzzfeed poll where WW and BM slaughtered him?

I think WW and BM are far more important than SM to the DCEU currently and it's going to take a huge miracle for Superman to catch up to the other two.

 

[BH/HHH]

Supermans popularity is not in the toilet, talk about a ridiculous statement. His symbol is still one of the most well known symbols around the world. He still sells a ton of merchandise and his last two solo outings in film might not have hit a billion but they still made a ton of money. In the toilet is one of the most hyperbolic things I've ever heard and you actually come across as more of a fanboy.

 

[Juan1193]

Supermans popularity is not in the toilet, talk about a ridiculous statement. His symbol is still one of the most well known symbols around the world. He still sells a ton of merchandise and his last two solo outings in film might not have hit a billion but they still made a ton of money. In the toilet is one of the most hyperbolic things I've ever heard and you actually come across as more of a fanboy.

I never said he wasn't iconic, recognizable or that he didn't sell merchandise. All I'm saying is that his popularity has taken a huge nose dive since my parents and grandparents generation. He isn't very popular amongst millenials that's for sure! I'd say even Flash is more liked amongst my generation than Superman.

DC just hasnt done a very good job at promoting the charcter or making him seem likeable for the past 10-15 years and it shows!

 

[The Batman]

I think WW and BM are far more important than SM to the DCEU currently and it's going to take a huge miracle for Superman to catch up to the other two.

Not really. All it took WW was a glorified cameo and a good movie. All Superman needs is a good film.

 

[BH/HHH]

I never said he wasn't iconic, recognizable or that he didn't sell merchandise. All I'm saying is that his popularity has taken a huge nose dive since my parents and grandparents generation. He isn't very popular amongst millenials that's for sure! I'd say even Flash is more liked amongst my generation than Superman.

DC just hasnt done a very good job at promoting the charcter or making him seem likeable for the past 10-15 years and it shows!

I disagree with that, he's still a very popular character, you're limiting it to much with TV and Film.

 

[Superchan]

Spoken like a true fan boy lol Superman's popularity is in the toilet and he's not really liked among my generation. He doesn't have any hit video game franchise, no animated series, his last 3 (technically 5) movies have been mediocre to bad and he was recently portrayed as a villain in DC's most popular video game series. Did you not see that buzzfeed poll where WW and BM slaughtered him?

I think WW and BM are far more important than SM to the DCEU currently and it's going to take a huge miracle for Superman to catch up to the other two.

You know I'm cool with people posting opinions that I disagree with but I 'm not cool with people who make asinine comments and pass them as facts.

You wanna talk superman sales figures, lets talk about that;

Smallville is still the longest running superhero show of all time and when it debuted I had 7 million viewers, which is double what any of the CW shows are doing now.

Superman doomsday is still DC's highest selling DTV animated movies, more so than any of the batman ones.

Superman earth one (VI-III) all made the newyork times top seller lists.

Man of steel might've underperformed (due to it's divisive nature more than anything) but the film made 129 million by the end of it's opening weekend, breaking the june opening record at the time all the while being the highest opening for a superhero origin (at the time) and being the 2nd highest opening for a non sequel (at the time).
Internationally the film opened massively as well (slightly beating Amazing Spider-man's opening and destroying Batman begins).


Lastly stop talking about superman isn't being popular in "your generation" as if you're a representative of said generation. You wanna talk popularity polls, check out this poll where superman destroys both bats and spidey voted on by over 130 thousand people:

http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/12/2...er-man-and-batman-in-greatest-superhero-poll/

Now that doesn't mean that superman is more popular than either but it sure as hell alot more credible than the "my generation" crap that you're pulling out of your a**.

Any character is only as strong as their portrayals, remember that Batman was a dead franchise when Nolan took over and it wasn't until 2008 when the character regained it's popularity.
Spidy was struggling due to AMS2, so much so that sony had to get marvel's help and once upon time B-character like Iron man is being used to get people excited again about Spiderman, one of the most popular characters of all time.
Superman needs care and attention like any other character and all it takes is a winter soldier or an xmen first class or a batman begins etc.....to get some excitement back into the character.

 

[Richard Grayson]

Exactly. Not to mention that using that Buzzfeed poll is disingenuous because Batman also only got like 17% of the votes. Based on that, Wonder Woman is so much popular that they should just build around her instead of forcing Batman into that role.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

I never said he wasn't iconic, recognizable or that he didn't sell merchandise. All I'm saying is that his popularity has taken a huge nose dive since my parents and grandparents generation. He isn't very popular amongst millenials that's for sure! I'd say even Flash is more liked amongst my generation than Superman.

DC just hasnt done a very good job at promoting the charcter or making him seem likeable for the past 10-15 years and it shows!

When Superman showed up on the Supergirl TV series at the start of the second season he got a lot of media attention and in general was well liked by the public because Supergirl made him likeable.
There were numerous articles that went so far as to claim this was the superior Superman. If no one cares about Superman anymore, why did so many people care about him being on the Supergirl TV series?
And why were so many people so angry when Supergirl defeated Superman in the Supergirl season finale? You don't get mad if a character you don't care about loses to a girl. Which generation do you think
watches Supergirl?

 

[Strong Browman]

WW is beating Batman very, very comfortably in this poll, which has a large number of voters. There are WW spoilers in the link, I should add. I am not aware of any polls with a similar number of voters where Batfleck comes out on top.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/DarthFreds...-opinons-2j1dk?utm_term=.wrlVKzDo7#.aiWvE50bN

She beat a Batman who brands people, kills, has guns on his Batmobile and was the straight up antagonist in BvS. Yeah not too shocking...

I don't know why people keep bragging about her being more poular than Batman and Superman so far when there's been nothing controversial about her at all and plenty of controversial things about the other 2. I want to see her in a popularity contest with Keaton or Bale's Batman and Reeves' Superman and see the results then. Right now she's beating characters a lot of people consider Batman and Superman in name only, not so impressive. Like another poster said if we had traditional Batman and Superman from the start this thread wouldn't even exist.

And at this point is she really even the most popular DCEU character because I honestly think it might be Harley Quinn. She was the driving force for a movie that got horrible reviews, had no China box office and was coming mere months from BvS's awful reviews, to $740M ww. Will WW even pass SS? If not isn't Harley more fitting as face of the franchise than her?

 

[Batmannerism]

You know I'm cool with people posting opinions that I disagree with but I 'm not cool with people who make asinine comments and pass them as facts.

You wanna talk superman sales figures, lets talk about that;

Smallville is still the longest running superhero show of all time and when it debuted I had 7 million viewers, which is double what any of the CW shows are doing now.

Superman doomsday is still DC's highest selling DTV animated movies, more so than any of the batman ones.

Superman earth one (VI-III) all made the newyork times top seller lists.

Man of steel might've underperformed (due to it's divisive nature more than anything) but the film made 129 million by the end of it's opening weekend, breaking the june opening record at the time all the while being the highest opening for a superhero origin (at the time) and being the 2nd highest opening for a non sequel (at the time).
Internationally the film opened massively as well (slightly beating Amazing Spider-man's opening and destroying Batman begins).


Lastly stop talking about superman isn't being popular in "your generation" as if you're a representative of said generation. You wanna talk popularity polls, check out this poll where superman destroys both bats and spidey voted on by over 130 thousand people:

http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/12/2...er-man-and-batman-in-greatest-superhero-poll/

Now that doesn't mean that superman is more popular than either but it sure as hell alot more credible than the "my generation" crap that you're pulling out of your a**.

Any character is only as strong as their portrayals, remember that Batman was a dead franchise when Nolan took over and it wasn't until 2008 when the character regained it's popularity.
Spidy was struggling due to AMS2, so much so that sony had to get marvel's help and once upon time B-character like Iron man is being used to get people excited again about Spiderman, one of the most popular characters of all time.
Superman needs care and attention like any other character and all it takes is a winter soldier or an xmen first class or a batman begins etc.....to get some excitement back into the character.

I agree with the comment in bold, and I don't have the facts to refute anything else you've said - other to say that B v S has done some harm to Superman's popularity, the characterisation of Superman in that film has been widely criticized (personally, I think Cavill could be a great Superman if the character was written properly).

As some have mentioned, the recent TV version of Superman, in Supergirl, created a lot of positive attention for the character - sadly DC don't seem to have capitalized on it as much as they could.

So is Superman's popularity "in the toilet" ? You've raised plenty of stats that suggest this isn't true. Honestly, I don't think it's entirely true, as Superman is a character of such iconic status that he will always retain a fan base.

However, if we only look at popularity in terms of these characters and their reception by the critics and general audience as of right now - then we must accept that right now Wonder Woman is DC's top character. Sure Batman will always have the greatness of TDK as part of his legacy, and Superman has Superman the Movie but today, right now is Wonder Woman's time.

Also, again only looking at recent big screen movies, Superman is suffering in comparison to Captain America and Iron Man.....even to Dr Strange and Ant Man.

The big question for Superman is whether anyone will give him a film of the same quality of Winter Soldier or Batman Begins (as you mentioned) ? Let's hope so !

The question of whether Wonder Woman will receive such treatment has already been answered. I think that such a strong start deserves swift follow-up, which is why I feel that Wonder Woman should be the lead character of the DCEU, build on her success and use it to launch other characters (kind of like the MCU did with the runaway success of Iron Man - let's face it Tony is the de facto main character of the Avengers - it's only after Winter Soldier that Cap has anywhere near Tony's level of popularity, and the two of them carry Marvel's best film, IMO, together.

But of course, that's just me.

Having said all that, I understand how you can be annoyed by people's comments and strongly disagree with each other but we can all still be civil to each other too. I'm guilty of resorting to occasional sarcasm myself (the lowest form of wit).

 

[BH/HHH]

Regardless of how divided his recent appearances in film have been surely you can agree saying his popularity is in the toilet is a huge overstatement.

 

[Batmannerism]

Regardless of how divided his recent appearances in film have been surely you can agree saying his popularity is in the toilet is a huge overstatement.

That's fair, I would agree that is an overstatement - but the underlying truth that as a movie character he is currently suffering in comparison to other characters is difficult to refute.

 

[jmc]

It's not in the toilet, but it's nowhere near where it once was.

 

[Slade W]

She beat a Batman who brands people, kills, has guns on his Batmobile and was the straight up antagonist in BvS. Yeah not too shocking...

I don't know why people keep bragging about her being more poular than Batman and Superman so far when there's been nothing controversial about her at all and plenty of controversial things about the other 2. I want to see her in a popularity contest with Keaton or Bale's Batman and Reeves' Superman and see the results then. Right now she's beating characters a lot of people consider Batman and Superman in name only, not so impressive. Like another poster said if we had traditional Batman and Superman from the start this thread wouldn't even exist.

And at this point is she really even the most popular DCEU character because I honestly think it might be Harley Quinn. She was the driving force for a movie that got horrible reviews, had no China box office and was coming mere months from BvS's awful reviews, to $740M ww. Will WW even pass SS? If not isn't Harley more fitting as face of the franchise than her?

The intention of my post wasn't to brag. I was responding to the following argument, which is emboldened:

I would argue Ben Affleck received just as much praise for his Batman as Gal did her Wonder Woman. It was the writing of the character that some took issue with, but he's a different character now.

I was providing evidence for why that may not be the case. The poll I provided does not definitively prove that Gals WW is more popular than Batfleck, but it is more evidence than anything I can find to suggest Batfleck is the more popular character at the moment or has received as much praise as Gal has done so far.

 

[Skrilla31]

Spoken like a true fan boy lol Superman's popularity is in the toilet and he's not really liked among my generation. He doesn't have any hit video game franchise, no animated series, his last 3 (technically 5) movies have been mediocre to bad and he was recently portrayed as a villain in DC's most popular video game series. Did you not see that buzzfeed poll where WW and BM slaughtered him?

I think WW and BM are far more important than SM to the DCEU currently and it's going to take a huge miracle for Superman to catch up to the other two.

Man Of Steel grossed $116 million during it's opening weekend, which is more than Wonder Woman just did.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Man Of Steel grossed $116 million during it's opening weekend, which is more than Wonder Woman just did.

Suicide Squad made $133 million.

 

[Richard Grayson]

She beat a Batman who brands people, kills, has guns on his Batmobile and was the straight up antagonist in BvS. Yeah not too shocking...

I don't know why people keep bragging about her being more poular than Batman and Superman so far when there's been nothing controversial about her at all and plenty of controversial things about the other 2. I want to see her in a popularity contest with Keaton or Bale's Batman and Reeves' Superman and see the results then. Right now she's beating characters a lot of people consider Batman and Superman in name only, not so impressive. Like another poster said if we had traditional Batman and Superman from the start this thread wouldn't even exist.

And at this point is she really even the most popular DCEU character because I honestly think it might be Harley Quinn. She was the driving force for a movie that got horrible reviews, had no China box office and was coming mere months from BvS's awful reviews, to $740M ww. Will WW even pass SS? If not isn't Harley more fitting as face of the franchise than her?

The question here is about the DCEU. Bale is gone. Why don't we compare her to Schumaker's Batman? That's about as relevant as what you're saying what we should do

 

[Panacea]

I don't think you can have an actress like Gal Gadot as your figurehead. She just doesn't have the chops for it.

 

[writer0327]

I don't think you can have an actress like Gal Gadot as your figurehead. She just doesn't have the chops for it.

Really? GG is incredibly likable and charismatic, she was clearly the best thing about the film as well as either the best or second best thing about BvS. WW is a certified fresh on RT, critics and audiences are excited to see more.

If they aren't moving in the direction of having GG/WW be the lead in the DCEU, what direction are they moving in?

 

[Yondu's Arrow]

MCU doesn't have one, really. Cap & Iron Man, I guess would be the arguable. But I can see DC's Trinity sharing that. Popularity feels like something else, will say, but the narrative of most of the MCU does seem to be Tony and Steve. And with that, Supes started the DCEU, Batman was ironically a breakout in a not so well received film in the DCEU, and WW is also a breakout now with her movie. So again, I do think The Trinity should be used as the shared leads to the universe.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

GG is incredibly likable and charismatic, she was clearly the best thing about the film as well as either the best or second best thing about BvS.

Agreed. Keep her within her limitations (and I don't mean that in a snarky way) and she'll be fine. I can't fault what she did in BvS or WW.

 

[baerrtt]

Man Of Steel grossed $116 million during it's opening weekend, which is more than Wonder Woman just did.

At this stage there's a strong possibility that WW will outgross every DCEU movie domestically and along with an overall better critical reception the question this thread poses is reasonable.

From a movie canon point of view we have an interpretation of Diana who is centuries old, that world's first superhero and thus the most experienced of them all...yep she should be the leader.

 

[Supa]

It would make Batman fanboys really mad, so I would support it on that ground.
I just really like it when a DC universe doesn't revolve around Batman all the time. It's always a breath of fresh air.

I suppose Superman's the other contemporary choice. Cavill's Superman hasn't exactly impressed me so far. Wonder Woman seems less likely to jump to killing people than both Bats and Supes so far.

 

[Dark Raven]

At this stage there's a strong possibility that WW will outgross every DCEU movie domestically and along with an overall better critical reception the question this thread poses is reasonable.

From a movie canon point of view we have an interpretation of Diana who is centuries old, that world's first superhero and thus the most experienced of them all...yep she should be the leader.

How do we know the DCEU Batman isn't centuries old too with the same amount of experience, and also has the powers and memories of every member of the JL including Superman? He might even have actually been Steve Trevor in the WW movie as well as Diana.