Since DCEU copies MCU as much as they can,will they do a black lead like Blk Panther?

[Guts]

Wasn't it already confirmed that the Green Lantern movie will be a buddy cop style film with both Hal and John?

 

[MbJ]

Wasn't it already confirmed that the Green Lantern movie will be a buddy cop style film with both Hal and John?

That was a recent development, and probably due to the failure of the first movie. But at the time the first movie was going on, Hal was the one DC and WB were heavily pushing at the face of the brand, so John being in the League instead of Hal was not an option.

Had Green Lantern been a hit, it would've been the start of DC's shared universe and we almost certainly would've ended up with Ryan Reynolds as one of the leads in the eventual Justice League movie.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'd like to have seen that lineup. Nothing against Momoa but if they'd gone with the DCAU League from the outset I'd have been happy.

Yeah.. A lot of people liked them, but I thought Momoa and Miller both did a pretty poor job. Maybe it was just the writing that let them down, but their actual performances stood out as being weak.. Miller especially.

I think they were both miscast. I would've been fine not seeing Aquaman on the team.

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Joel Edgerton or Alexander Skarsgaard probably would've been better choices.

That said, I'm going to keep an open mind. Under James Wan, Momoa might turn in an awesome performance. I haven't given up on him.

 

[semper]

The whole Cyborg thing predates the DCEU though. It goes back to the New 52, where the Justice League's origin was retconned so that Cyborg was now the 7th founder instead of J'onn. That subsequently carried over into almost every medium based on DC, with Cyborg now being the seventh member of the team in all their straight-to-DVD animated flicks and a lot of the video games as well. Merchandise as well.

This was the new image of the Justice League WB/DC had been pushing since 2011, and the movie was just the culmination of that effort.

So given that, I do have to think it came down to race. When DC and WB were rebooting their universe, I'm sure they thought it'd make sense to have the Justice League be more racially diverse, and Cyborg was their choice. He's probably one of DC's most popular black heroes, with the two above him being John Stewart (who they weren't gonna use because WB/DC were hugely pushing Hal Jordan as their next big superstar back then, complete with his ill-fated solo movie) and Static (who isn't owned by DC, but is licensed from the McDuffie estate, I believe).

The problem is, Cyborg is not a leading character and has never successfully been. Even when he was retconned into being a founder, he was the only member of the team without his own ongoing book.

I know Cyborg as a founding Justice Leaguer pre-dated the official DCEU. Snyder and Goyer were already production on Man Of Steel in 2011 when New 52 came out. They would have been in pre-production for longer. To me it's entirely feasible that Snyder and Goyer would have had conversations with Johns about their dislike of Martian Manhunter, and Cyborg would be the "cool" option as a replacement (because Snyder and Johns care about comic book movies being cool. Back then Snyder was even laughing at the concept of uncool characters like Thor and Ant-Man getting movies. Ironic).

I think the distaste of MM from the movie guys definitely influenced decisions for New 52 (the stories seemed streamlined for easy movie adaptation anyway. Justice League the movie basically adapts the first arc in the New 52 comic).

Race was not as big a factor as I think people assume in getting rid of the longest standing regular Justice League member for Cyborg. Martian Manhunter is a shapeshifter, and can assume any race he wants. In the Supergirl series, he's played by a black actor and his civilian identity (John Jones) is a black man. Martian Manhunter could easily be shown as a black man in the comics, and have been cast as a black actor in the movies, and no one would have batted an eyelid because his powers permit him to assume any race he wants to.

You could even have slightly retconned Martian Manhunter's origin to make him "woke", and show that the reason he identifies as a black man in his human identity was that he was taken in or cared for by some black folk when he was beamed to earth in the 50' or 60's. Martian Manhunter could have been given extra depth as someone who fought for civil rights in that time period etc. There were so many ways around any "diversity"mandate, and still keeping The Manhunter.

The movie guys simply hated Martian Manhunter, and Johns gave them an easy out with the Cyborg New 52 retcon, not to face fan backlash by ignoring him when it came time to make the movies.

To be honest, I suspect the entire New 52 project was in part motivated to streamline the DC universe for movie creatives to adapt more easily.

 

[jmc]

I guess a lot of us are just old school. I just can't look at Cyborg as being anything other than a member of the Titans. It would be the same if you were replacing Wonder Woman with Raven or Starfire. It just doesn't feel fight.

 

[DrCosmic]

^I think that's what helped kill the DCEU and New 52. We didn't take it seriously. When I saw Cyborg on the cover of JL, I just rolled my eyes.
I didn't know how dooming it was for the team, or that it would dominate a movie 6 years later.

Ideally, Static would be DC/WB's choice for a black lead character. Unfortunately, I think there'll always be some sort of ownership or licensing issue that'll hold the character back from getting the push he deserves.

Black Lightning would be a good pick as well. I think DC have resolved the rights issues for that. Not sure they'd allow BL to have a movie while the TV show is on the air. They seem to be selective with which characters are allowed to be in both movies and TV shows concurrently.

John Stewart is definitely an overrated option. The man is no more or less interesting than Hal, but he gets put on a bit of a pedestal because he happened to be in one great, popular cartoon. Still, while John is an overrated option, he is the safest one.

My John Stewart pedestal is made out of 18 issues of Green Lantern: Mosaic. That guy often gets forgotten, but he was a woke badass that even Priest's Black Panther couldn't quite touch in either department, imho. It likely contributed to why he 'just so happened' to be in one great popular cartoon.

I think Static is a great character, but his youth makes him not a fit for the more mature angle the League tends to take. What would have been really interesting is splitting the difference between Static, Steel and Cyborg and doing Hardware.

I think both Vixen and Firestorm have that potential as well, but like Black Lightning, they're both tied up on the TV side.

Kendra Munoz Hawkgirl could be Black and Hispanic.

 

[The Batman]

My John Stewart pedestal is made out of 18 issues of Green Lantern: Mosaic. That guy often gets forgotten, but he was a woke badass that even Priest's Black Panther couldn't quite touch in either department, imho. It likely contributed to why he 'just so happened' to be in one great popular cartoon.

Don't twist my words. I never claimed that Timm and Co. chose John on a whim, yet it seems like you're trying to imply that I did.

I think Static is a great character, but his youth makes him not a fit for the more mature angle the League tends to take. What would have been really interesting is splitting the difference between Static, Steel and Cyborg and doing Hardware.

Neither me nor anyone else said Static should be a Leaguer. However, in an ideal world he'd be the first pick for a black lead in a DC film.

 

[semper]

Guy Gardner is actually my favorite Green Lantern, but I have to admit John Stewart may have the single most impactful series/arc of any Green Lantern with Mosaic. That was some deep stuff, when DC were really pushing boundaries in comics (particularly with the Vertigo imprint). For all Geoff Johns incessant fanwanking over Hal Jordan, the Jordan character has never, in his 60 year history, ever showed as much depth and complexity of characterisation as Stewart managed in those 18 issues.

 

[DrCosmic]

Don't twist my words. I never claimed that Timm and Co. chose John on a whim, yet it seems like you're trying to imply that I did.

I was suggesting that JLU is not necessarily the reason he gets put on a pedestal, though the fact that you used words like "overrated" and "just happened" made me kind of *have* to talk about Mosaic, not that I needed much excuse...

Neither me nor anyone else said Static should be a Leaguer. However, in an ideal world he'd be the first pick for a black lead in a DC film.

Ah, I thought you meant like "the" Black lead for the DCEU, which would sort of imply a key position in the big team up film.

Guy Gardner is actually my favorite Green Lantern, but I have to admit John Stewart may have the single most impactful series/arc of any Green Lantern with Mosaic. That was some deep stuff, when DC were really pushing boundaries in comics (particularly with the Vertigo imprint). For all Geoff Johns incessant fanwanking over Hal Jordan, the Jordan character has never, in his 60 year history, ever showed as much depth and complexity of characterisation as Stewart managed in those 18 issues.

TRUE that.

 

[The Batman]

I was suggesting that JLU is not necessarily the reason he gets put on a pedestal, though the fact that you used words like "overrated" and "just happened" made me kind of *have* to talk about Mosaic, not that I needed much excuse...

If more people actually mentioned his comic book incarnation, I wouldn't think he'd be put on a pedestal. I think you and Semper are the first people I've seen mention Mosaic on here.

Ah, I thought you meant like "the" Black lead for the DCEU, which would sort of imply a key position in the big team up film.

I didn't think it had to imply that, but now that you mention it, they probably would try to put such a character in their JL films.

 

[MbJ]

I know Cyborg as a founding Justice Leaguer pre-dated the official DCEU. Snyder and Goyer were already production on Man Of Steel in 2011 when New 52 came out. They would have been in pre-production for longer. To me it's entirely feasible that Snyder and Goyer would have had conversations with Johns about their dislike of Martian Manhunter, and Cyborg would be the "cool" option as a replacement (because Snyder and Johns care about comic book movies being cool. Back then Snyder was even laughing at the concept of uncool characters like Thor and Ant-Man getting movies. Ironic).

I think the distaste of MM from the movie guys definitely influenced decisions for New 52 (the stories seemed streamlined for easy movie adaptation anyway. Justice League the movie basically adapts the first arc in the New 52 comic).

Race was not as big a factor as I think people assume in getting rid of the longest standing regular Justice League member for Cyborg. Martian Manhunter is a shapeshifter, and can assume any race he wants. In the Supergirl series, he's played by a black actor and his civilian identity (John Jones) is a black man. Martian Manhunter could easily be shown as a black man in the comics, and have been cast as a black actor in the movies, and no one would have batted an eyelid because his powers permit him to assume any race he wants to.

You could even have slightly retconned Martian Manhunter's origin to make him "woke", and show that the reason he identifies as a black man in his human identity was that he was taken in or cared for by some black folk when he was beamed to earth in the 50' or 60's. Martian Manhunter could have been given extra depth as someone who fought for civil rights in that time period etc. There were so many ways around any "diversity"mandate, and still keeping The Manhunter.

The movie guys simply hated Martian Manhunter, and Johns gave them an easy out with the Cyborg New 52 retcon, not to face fan backlash by ignoring him when it came time to make the movies.

To be honest, I suspect the entire New 52 project was in part motivated to streamline the DC universe for movie creatives to adapt more easily.

I think you're reading a bit too much into it, tbh. There's a very simple explanation to it: they wanted a minority on the Justice League. Cyborg fit the bill better than John Stewart or Static. I doubt Snyder or Goyer factored into it at all. I don't mean this to be insensitive, but Martian Manhunter has pretty much always been the least famous member of the Big 7, and therefore the most expendable in eyes of the writers and higher ups.

 

[RomanticPenguin]

i frickin love martian manhunter

at least in the JL animated series

 

[metaphysician]

Eh, Cyborg only fit the bill better than John Stewart, because Johns refuses to let Hal yield the spot. Otherwise John would have been a vastly better pick for "Token Black JLAer" ( who is actually perfectly capable of being not-token ).

 

[InfinityWar]

So now DC is trying to get Michael Bay to do a Lobo movie as a 'response' (aka copying marvel again) to Deadpool ?!?!?

 

[2kt09]

So now DC is trying to get Michael Bay to do a Lobo movie as a 'response' (aka copying marvel again) to Deadpool ?!?!?

Is that what Lobo is? Plastic Man or one of those elastic dudes are much much closer to Deadpool, heck Shazam most certainly is as well, than the Hell's Angel Reject from outer space. They even have Harley Quinn if they're trying to fill that void.

 

[semper]

Is that what Lobo is? Plastic Man or one of those elastic dudes are much much closer to Deadpool, heck Shazam most certainly is as well, than the Hell's Angel Reject from outer space. They even have Harley Quinn if they're trying to fill that void.

Ambush Bug is the closest DC has to Deadpool. He was breaking the 4th wall in the 1980's before Deadpool was even created. But few people know or care about Ambush Bug. He's an obscure character, even to comic book fans.

The Creeper is similar is well, but he's never taken off the way I suspect DC editorial always wanted him too.

Lobo did take off. He was huge for a period. But he hasn't been truly relevant since the 90's. Deadpool kept growing in popularity since his creation in the 90's, and stayed relevant. Lobo is passe and cliche. His moment came and went.

Harley Quinn is DC's biggest hope for a super-popular anti-hero that is relevant and can maybe match Deadpool's popularity. Which is why Margot Robbie seems to be attached to about 6 different projects featuring Harley.

 

[The Guard]

So now DC is trying to get Michael Bay to do a Lobo movie as a 'response' (aka copying marvel again) to Deadpool ?!?!?

WB has been developing various Lobo projects for a long, long time.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

You could even have slightly retconned Martian Manhunter's origin to make him "woke", and show that the reason he identifies as a black man in his human identity was that he was taken in or cared for by some black folk when he was beamed to earth in the 50' or 60's. Martian Manhunter could have been given extra depth as someone who fought for civil rights in that time period etc. There were so many ways around any "diversity"mandate, and still keeping The Manhunter.

I really like that.

To be honest, I suspect the entire New 52 project was in part motivated to streamline the DC universe for movie creatives to adapt more easily.

Interesting. I never thought of that.

I guess a lot of us are just old school. I just can't look at Cyborg as being anything other than a member of the Titans. It would be the same if you were replacing Wonder Woman with Raven or Starfire. It just doesn't feel fight.

Yup, I'm the same.

Is that what Lobo is? Plastic Man or one of those elastic dudes are much much closer to Deadpool, heck Shazam most certainly is as well, than the Hell's Angel Reject from outer space. They even have Harley Quinn if they're trying to fill that void.

Harley breaks the 4th wall/shows awareness that she's in a comic book quite often.

 

[mace1]

Still, there aint no MCU films with a female lead that are any good.

The MCU does not have solo lead film yet.The only female marvel film so far is made by fox marvel and that's not mcu.

 

[mace1]

John Stewart is definitely an overrated option. The man is no more or less interesting than Hal, but he gets put on a bit of a pedestal because he happened to be in one great, popular cartoon.

I disagree with this view.
By the way you could say john stewart is in two popular cartoons.
He is in Young justice.

 

[Matleo]

cyborg can be interesting if they use him in the other mono movies of other heroes like they do with the Hulk this days.

 

[The Guard]

If I was plotting the universe, I would have Cyborg be a founding member of the league...and develop the Titans when he reaches his time to be a "mentor", drawing from his experience with the league and as an existing superhero to guide younger heroes. There's no reason he couldn't be part of both teams at different points in his career.

 

[TheVerbos]

I have never given a damn about Cyborg. He's always seemed like a second banana. I don't expect that him having a solo film will change my perception of him. It might.

DC's problem is that they don't have a black lead like Marvel does with T'Challa. John Stewart is one of a team of several. Bronze Tiger isn't a good guy. Static, as enjoyable as he may be, is a Spider-Man derivative.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I have never given a damn about Cyborg. He's always seemed like a second banana. I don't expect that him having a solo film will change my perception of him. It might.

Have to say I feel the same.

DC's problem is that they don't have a black lead like Marvel does with T'Challa. John Stewart is one of a team of several. Bronze Tiger isn't a good guy. Static, as enjoyable as he may be, is a Spider-Man derivative.

I don't follow the Flash comics - did DC ever do much with the black Wally?

 

[MbJ]

I don't follow the Flash comics - did DC ever do much with the black Wally?

Yes. He's currently a member of the Teen Titans and was used in the Deathstroke book to great effect.