Six Days in Fallujah

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I was thinking about posting this in the games section, but this thread will probably be about the political hits the game seems to be taking already after being announced.

If you didn't know, here's the skinny:

Six Days in Fallujah is an upcoming third-person shooter video game described by the developer, Atomic Games, as a "survival horror game". It is published by Konami and is the first game to focus directly on Operation Iraqi Freedom[2], mainly the Second Battle of Fallujah.[2] The game follows a squad of U.S. Marines from 3rd Battalion 1st Marines over the span of six days

GamePolitics.com posted a few of the responses to the game's announcement. Reactions from War veterans that are gamers, themselves, and the families of war veterans who have died in in action and still active soliders:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/04/07/outrage-over-konami039s-quotsix-days-fallujahquot

The U.K.'s Daily Mail reports complaints about Six Days in Fallujah by the father of a Royal Marine who died in the Iraq War. Reg Keys, whose son Thomas was killed in 2003, said:

Considering the enormous loss of life in the Iraq War, glorifying it in a video game demonstrates very poor judgement and bad taste... These horrific events should be confined to the annals of history, not trivialised and rendered for thrill-seekers to play out...

It's entirely possible that Muslim families will buy the game, and for them it may prove particularly harrowing. Even worse, it could end up in the hands of a fanatical young Muslim and incite him to consider some form of retaliation or retribution...

I will be calling for this game to be banned, if not worldwide then certainly in the UK.
​

Meanwhile, former colonel Tim Collins OBE, a decorated Iraq War veteran, was equally aghast:

It's much too soon to start making video games about a war that's still going on, and an extremely flippant response to one of the most important events in modern history. It's particularly insensitive given what happened in Fallujah, and I will certainly oppose the release of this game.
​

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/04/07/outrage-over-konami039s-quotsix-days-fallujahquot

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Here's some more, from GamePolitics.com. I'm sure there's information from other sites, But I personally trust Gamepolitics to not go ahead and calim ''games are evil'' and whatnot. Anways, here's some more reactions:

This is an interview with a Gamer War Vet (I assume this means he's a gamer and has served in the military as well, IMO). He hates Metal Gear Solid, though...so...

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/04...-fallujah-will-dishonor-those-who-served-iraq


And...

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/04...n-outcry-against-konami039s-six-days-fallujahhttp://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/04...-fallujah-will-dishonor-those-who-served-iraq

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Okay, my thoughts off the bat are this:

-On Metal Gear Solid, which I mention because I know the series like the back of my hand, I thought Colonel Dan Rosenthal was being slightly contradictive. And, I do believe that none of us can argue that the rise of PMC's in the world is certainly a basis for debate.

-I don't have a problem with them making a game based on the Iraq war. Hundreds of games have been based on other wars, mostly World War II. I don't think it's fair to not be outraged about games based on OTHER wars, and to be outraged about a game based on THIS war.

Now, however...if your stance is against ALL war games...I can certainly understand your critcism.

But, if movies, shows, mini-series can get a pass...I think a game ought to as well.

 

[Kelly]

I have no idea what that is....

 

[SuBe]

This should be in the Game Forums.

 

[Marx]

I agree.

 

[Kelly]

I'll go with ya'lls thoughts because I have no idea what this is....

 

[ProjectPat2280]

as long as they arent pushing an agenda, ill check the game out.

 

[roach]

I agree. We can do a movie about Pearl Harbor,movies about Vietnam, movies about 911 so why cant we do a game about Iraqi Freedom.....hell we even had a tv show based on the Iraq war and no one batted an eye

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

As an Army Vet who saw combat and a recreational gamer, I'll give me $ .02:

1. I dont have issues with War games. I think in a way they can be used to educate people on history and combat tactics. Although none of them even come close to what it's like to actually be in a combat zone. Personally I dont play them simply because I just dont have the desire to. After you've been in a war zone IRL (18 months in Bosnia) and seen the atrocities that are part of it, the games seem kind of silly. Similar to how I'm sure someone who's been a professional musician would view a game like Rock Band. Just because I dont have interest in the genre, I dont begrudge others for enjoying it however.

2. I think a game based on Fallujah coming out now is in poor taste though. Mostly for the reason that our brothers and sisters are still being killed over there currently on a daily basis. Games based on past wars have had time from those conflict's ending and for the "dust to settle" and the wounds to heal. No one is still being killed on Normandy Beach or in the Tet Offensive. They're historical events now, viewed for the most part in a good light historically, and most people playing these games weren't around to experience those events as they happened.

To the point above, the difference between a game and a movie/tv show, is film and television are usually meant to document things or to tell you a story. You're a passive audience. A video game on the other hand is a game and by nature something to be "played" which comes across as being trivial.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

2. I think a game based on Fallujah coming out now is in poor taste though. Mostly for the reason that our brothers and sisters are still being killed over there currently on a daily basis. Games based on past wars have had time from those conflict's ending and for the "dust to settle" and the wounds to heal. No one is still being killed on Normandy Beach or in the Tet Offensive. They're historical events now, viewed for the most part in a good light historically, and most people playing these games weren't around to experience those events as they happened. .

I think thats a really good point. I think it could be a good thing to have a game or other media represent this current conflict to show viewers or players what is going on over there, but it seems as tho ppl cant do that without pushing an agenda. And like you said, I'm not sure everyone is ready for a title like this being that this current conflict is still going on.

Also, thanks for your service Hulk, it really means alot, to all of us.

 

[roach]

I think what this really comes down to is how video games are viewed by the public. There wouldnt be outrage if someone made a movie about Fallujah. But because its a childish video game there is outrage.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I agree that this game is in poor taste.

I felt that the 9/11 movies were in poor taste as well.

Black Hawk Down was pushing it.

If you're going to do a movie or game based on a horrific event, battle, etc, you should not do recent events or events still taking place. Would you think it oky to make a game about the recent Italian earthquake, or the tsunami in India?

Games are a recreational activity. They are made for fun. Nothing more. Especially shooters. Its not the way "games are viewed by the public"; its simply how games are. If you think anything differently, you are delusional.

No, this game should not be made. In 10 years or so (if the war is over) would it be okay? Maybe. But that is still not enough time, IMO.

And yes, Hulk, thanks for your service, bro.

 

[Cosmic]

Hello? All you guys and girls who can't wait to check this game out: the war is still going on. Enlist in the USMC today, and you might get a chance to go experience it first-hand. And the government will even pay you to do it! Why pay for the simulation when you can get paid to experience the real thing? Hurry, before it's too late!

 

[Soapy]

I couldn't care less if they set a game in the current war. The thing I'm worried about is the fact that it's a survival horror game. If you have the balls to do a game about an extremely volatile issue such as our current predicament in Iraq, then they better do it right not make light of the whole situation by adding zombies or whatever they're doing. Otherwise you get people on Fox News like Martha MacCallum pretending to ******** over the whole thing just so she can get her ratings up.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I think it should be given a chance.

Again, I can absolutely understand someone's stance on hating all war films/games/shows...or even just certain war-based genre media.

Like the Iraq war. I believe that the "War is still on" arguement is entirely valid and a good stance.

My problem is this: films, music, shows do it. Games ought to as well. If "Body of Lies" got the same kind of heat...or "Generation Kill" on HBO...or even "Call of Duty 4" (which not outright in Iraq...but let's be honest, there were levels that were in the middle east and conveyed the current war happening.

I also think, this isn't anything new. I certainly understand the claim that they are cashing in on the death of millions...but so are others whenever a Vietnam game/film/show is done....or the overdone World War II games as well.

It is sort of the price of living in a capatalistic country. People take these kinds of opportunities.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I

My problem is this: films, music, shows do it. Games ought to as well. If "Body of Lies" got the same kind of heat...or "Generation Kill" on HBO...or even "Call of Duty 4" (which not outright in Iraq...but let's be honest, there were levels that were in the middle east and conveyed the current war happening..

Generation Kill was a serious drama meant to show what the soldiers were going through over in Iraq and the toll it's taking on them. I believe it was also partly written by a few of the Vets that had done a few tours over there and an embedded reporter.

Six Days in Fallujah is a game. Games are activities to play for fun. It's in poor taste that you'll have people getting entertainment value and playing around doing something where real kids their age are currently dying, both Americans and Iraqis. Like I said this is what differentiates it from WWII and Vietnam games. Although I'm sure Vets of those wars dont think too highly of those games either.

And I especailly think it's an even bigger joke now that someone mentioned it's got zombies in it, because that further trivializes what's going on over there. If you're going to make it a sci-fi horror combat game, why the hell would they then set it in a current day war zone? Poor choices on the dev's part all around.

 

[Soapy]

I didn't say it had zombies in it. It is a survival horror game and I was just using that as an example.

Off Topic: This "games should only be simple mindless fun" argument I see is kind of disconcerting. Video games can deeply effect you and really make you think just like a good movie or a good book can. I see no reason to single video games out.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I didn't say it had zombies in it. It is a survival horror game and I was just using that as an example.

Off Topic: This "games should only be simple mindless fun" argument I see is kind of disconcerting. Video games can deeply effect you and really make you think just like a good movie or a good book can. I see no reason to single video games out.

See i agree with this. IMO, video games can covey a message the same way a movie or television show can. You could debate for years on just what Hideo Kojima was truly saying in Metal Gear Solid 4. My biggest problem with this game and the war in general, is no one uses it for anything other than a political jumping point anymore. I'm sure this game will have some kind of message that the developers are trying to push.

 

[roach]

Generation Kill was a serious drama meant to show what the soldiers were going through over in Iraq and the toll it's taking on them. I believe it was also partly written by a few of the Vets that had done a few tours over there and an embedded reporter.

Six Days in Fallujah is a game. Games are activities to play for fun. It's in poor taste that you'll have people getting entertainment value and playing around doing something where real kids their age are currently dying, both Americans and Iraqis.

People watch TV and go to movies for entertainment value too. Why dont we get rid of the Grand Theft Auto series too since people are stealing cars and shooting each other too. As someone who was apart of Iraqi Freedom and who's brother did a tour in Iraq and is gearing up to go to Afghanistan I dont have an issue with this game.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Also, about the interview link with former Colonel Dan Rosenthal, which I found interesting. On Metal Gear Solid, which I mention because I know the series like the back of my hand, I thought Colonel Dan Rosenthal was being slightly contradictive. He commended COD4 for not being directly involved with the Iraq war within the game, since realism isn't the aim...but Metal Gear Solid is hated for being unrealistic?

And, I do believe that none of us can argue that the rise of PMC's in the world is certainly a basis for debate. They're becoming a very big deal nowadays.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

People watch TV and go to movies for entertainment value too. Why dont we get rid of the Grand Theft Auto series too since people are stealing cars and shooting each other too. As someone who was apart of Iraqi Freedom and who's brother did a tour in Iraq and is gearing up to go to Afghanistan I dont have an issue with this game.

You're a soldier and you need me to explain the difference to you between dying in service to your country and a car-jacking?

 

[roach]

You're a soldier and you need me to explain the difference to you between dying in service to your country and a car-jacking?

I dont need you to explain it to me. I already know the difference.
Someone mentioned it was poor taste to play a game when the reality was happening....i mentioned the GTA series.
We've had a tv series about the War in Iraq....no outrage. Was there any outrage for the Afghanistan scene from Iron Man????
Hell there are already war games about Iraq so why is this one catching the flack?????

 

[Joker]

Didn't most of Call of Duty 4 take place in Iraq/an un-named Iraqish country? Hell, didn't Fiddy go to Iraq and kill terrorists just like, a month ago in his game? Because that b**ch took his skull? How is a more serious take on it any worse?

My problem is with it being a "survival horror" game. So are there going to be camera angles? And a very limited supply of ammo and health items? Cause if not, they should stop using that title and just call it a shooter, which it likely is.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Didn't most of Call of Duty 4 take place in Iraq/an un-named Iraqish country? Hell, didn't Fiddy go to Iraq and kill terrorists just like, a month ago in his game? Because that b**ch took his skull? How is a more serious take on it any worse?

Yes.

And, yes.

And I heard no outrage whatsoever.

It kinda seems like they can all beat around the bush...but not mention the bush?

Ironically, that sounded much more political than I meant it to be.

My problem is with it being a "survival horror" game. So are there going to be camera angles? And a very limited supply of ammo and health items? Cause if not, they should stop using that title and just call it a shooter, which it likely is.

My guess is that they meant it would be intense, and focused on survival.

I guess.

I dunno if Survival horror equals zombies like it used to.