The Amazing Spider-Man SM4: spidey, hero or menace?

[SpeterMan3]

The poll is dead even now, lol. 17-17.

 

[Reikowolf]

Spidey is a PUBLIC MENACE!!!

That was probably the single most irritating aspect of Spider-Man 3 for me, and small elements of 1 and 2. Spider-Man Day? SPIDER-MAN DAY?! Talk about giving the biggest WTF-caused slap in the face to 40 years of history.

He did save the city from being blown up by a perpetual sun after he had been missing for a while and crime rates began soaring.

I think Spider-Man day was believable, which is all the more reason why people turn their backs on him in 4 after he ruined his public image.

 

[david icke]

He did save the city from being blown up by a perpetual sun after he had been missing for a while and crime rates began soaring.

I think Spider-Man day was believable, which is all the more reason why people turn their backs on him in 4 after he ruined his public image.

See, that's where I think they missed a trick with the black suit story in 3. When the 1st publicity photos of Spider-man day came through I was thinking, 'Ah, they're setting him up for a fall, he'll start being more viscious in the blacks suit and public opinion will turn against him after, for once in his life, getting a nice public hero song and dance parade.'
But, all the bad black suit stuff was done in private, out of public gaze, he remained a hero in the public's eyes. Sure, it was a nice set up for Pete hitting the peak of his oversized ego, before falling in his own eyes, and his friends, but they lost the opportunity of putting Spidey into the menace category where he belongs.

For the final battle I think it would have been more interesting to have the crowd and media unsure of Spider-man, but realizing that he was probably the only one who could take care of Sandman and Venom.
It certainly would have made the tv coverage more interesting, to have the opinion switch from 'oh, do we trust this guy anymore? Is he here for the right reasons?', to, 'oh, he's doing it, he's saving the hostage', to, 'oh no, he's getting his ass kicked.'
What do we get instead of that? Spidey essentially dropping into a Superman shot, right in front of the stars and stripes to an adoring crowd.

As said previously, that whole situation could easily be twisted afterwards by the media, the message written in the web by Venom could be construed as a grudge match invite, and the city could think that hostages are being taken just so some superpowered folk can have their fights.

RE: Spider-man 2 and the papers reporting crime rates going down/JJJ changing his reaction. This type of thing seemed like an exception to the rule, that of Spidey being the menace, although we didn't see that much of him being regarded as one.

 

[Reikowolf]

/\

good point.

 

[The Joker]

RE: Spider-man 2 and the papers reporting crime rates going down/JJJ changing his reaction.

Don't you mean crime rates going up? Went up 75% I think.

It was great to see the effect Spidey's absence had on New York. It showed just how much he contributes to New York. Coupled with saving the train full of people, and saving MJ and stopping Doc Ock, it's no wonder the city loved him in SM-3.

 

[david icke]

Don't you mean crime rates going up? Went up 75% I think.

It was great to see the effect Spidey's absence had on New York. It showed just how much he contributes to New York. Coupled with saving the train full of people, and saving MJ and stopping Doc Ock, it's no wonder the city loved him in SM-3.

Yeah, crime rates going up, slip o the mind there.

See, but I think SM3 could've just as easily started with Spidey's rep on the fence of hero or menace?
The train save could just as well look as if it was caused by Spidey in the first place, the Bugle would of course paint it that way in the comics; who knows about him saving MJ and stopping the big thing from destroying the city? Only MJ, no other witnesses, again, this could be twisted by the Bugle and the media into him merely being present at a near disaster, not the one who prevented it.
It was just that SM3's plot needed Spidey put up on a pedastel for him to fall off of. SM2 could've just as easily started off with him watching the hero video with the kids after him saving the kids at the end of SM1, but Raimi wanted to touch on the hero or menace thing for a bit in SM2. I got a big kick out the guy assuming he stole the pizzas as I was wanting a bit of public mis-trust for Spidey, that moment felt totally right to me, straight from the comics.

 

[spider-neil]

and menace takes the lead for the first time! YAY!

 

[Chris Wallace]

In the comics, how is he currently viewed? I haven't picked one up in a while.

 

[SpeterMan3]

and menace takes the lead for the first time! YAY!

And now, it's tied again.

 

[chaseter]

Don't you mean crime rates going up? Went up 75% I think.

It was great to see the effect Spidey's absence had on New York. It showed just how much he contributes to New York. Coupled with saving the train full of people, and saving MJ and stopping Doc Ock, it's no wonder the city loved him in SM-3.

That is why we have JJJ. "Spidey and Ock Terrorize Train"

 

[The Slang]

I can't believe there are so many people in favour of spidey being seen as a hero. Is there anyone here that's actually a fan of the source material?

These movies have all been too much like the christopher reeves superman films. Parker awkardly nudges his way around a newspaper office, with clark kents hairstyle. And crowds of people stop in the streets to point and cheer, dazzled by a blue and red figure zooming through the sky.

Unfortunately though, I do understand that if there was a direct continuity between 3 & 4, it wouldn't make sense to have spidey hated by the public. Even though that's kind of one of spideys defining traits... Like a spider, he is feard and shunned by most people, despite serving a useful porpose. Catching thieves... just like flies. Look out!

... here comes the spider-man

 

[The Slang]

It was great to see the effect Spidey's absence had on New York. It showed just how much he contributes to New York. Coupled with saving the train full of people, and saving MJ and stopping Doc Ock, it's no wonder the city loved him in SM-3.

Yeh... 'Cept Spider-man was kind of responsible for endangering the train in the first place. And MJ.

 

[The Joker]

Yeh... 'Cept Spider-man was kind of responsible for endangering the train in the first place. And MJ.

Yeah, Spider-Man is responsible for the actions of the villains

 

[The Slang]

Um, If a police officer mishandles a situation causing a gun fight to spill into a street and harm innocent bystanders, they are held responsible *rolls eyes*

Spider-man pulled Ock from the building, for no other purpose than to trigger the high octane train fight.

 

[The Joker]

Um, If a police officer mishandles a situation causing a gun fight to spill into a street and harm innocent bystanders, they are held responsible *rolls eyes*

Spider-man pulled Ock from the building, for no other purpose than to trigger the high octane train fight.

Yeah, because Spider-Man timed it so they would land on the train passing by at that exact moment

They were on a clock tower. There was no pedestrians below. Just train tracks. You might as well blame Spidey for Green Goblin attacking MJ, Aunt May, and the tram full of kids because he refused to join Green Goblin.

Ridiculous logic.

 

[The Slang]

It wasn't because he didn't join Green goblin, it was because he failed to protect his identity. That IS why Mj and aunt May were attacked. The kids were taken because of his refusal to join the goblin... which would probably have been the easiest way to apprehend the goblin anyway. All I'm saying is that spider-man would seem more heroic to me if he did alot more intervening in situations not directly or indirectly caused by him.

The way I remember spidey, he'd be guilt ridden and beating himself up over endangering lives.

 

[The Joker]

It wasn't because he didn't join Green goblin, it was because he failed to protect his identity. That IS why Mj and aunt May were attacked.

Oh you want to split hairs? Ok, I can do that.

Why did Green Goblin attack Peter's loved ones in the first place? Because he refused to join him.

"No one says no to me"

"I offered you friendship, and you spat in my face"

Yeah, he got to attack MJ and Aunt May because he learned Peter's identity. But that was a direct result of Peter refusing to join him. Had they joined forces, there would have been no reprisals from Goblin.

Is Spider-Man to blame for Goblin's insane actions? No. Same way as he's not responsible for Doc Ock's. He didn't create these villains. He didn't set them loose on New York with their insane agendas.

Spidey is in no way responsible for what they did. They made their own choices.

 

[Chris Wallace]

It wasn't because he didn't join Green goblin, it was because he failed to protect his identity. That IS why Mj and aunt May were attacked. The kids were taken because of his refusal to join the goblin... which would probably have been the easiest way to apprehend the goblin anyway. All I'm saying is that spider-man would seem more heroic to me if he did alot more intervening in situations not directly or indirectly caused by him.

Maybe as a rookie superhero, the thought of such deception wouldn't occur to him. Maybe just starting out, & with Jameson already turning people against him, swearing allegiance to a homocidal maniac didn't sound like the right course of action. Besides, if he'd lied, GG most likely would've seen right through it & gotten even more violent.

 

[The Slang]

To Joker. What I meant to say is:
I know Spidey refusing to join the goblin was the cause for attacking MJ/Aunt May and dropping the tram full of kids... but Aunt May and MJ would have had no involvement if he protected his identity. Spider-man is still indirectly responsible for all 3, and also the apartment fire, just for the fact that if he never involved himself in the goblins business or paraded around in the public eye... the events never would've came to be. Although the goblin probably wouldve harmed people anyway. I don't blame spider-man for the villains actions, I mean I'm not J Jonah Jameson here. But I think spider-man would blame himself, as would the law most likely. Through inaction, involvement or inability spider-man has brought about many of the potential disasters he has had to prevent. Although he's a hero to ME, and I know he means well... my emotions aren't enough to blind me to the truth... or poor writing.

 

[The Joker]

To Joker. What I meant to say is:
I know Spidey refusing to join the goblin was the cause for attacking MJ/Aunt May and dropping the tram full of kids... but Aunt May and MJ would have had no involvement if he protected his identity.

He did protect his identity. All he had was a cut on his arm. Something only Goblin would recognize. The last place in the world he expected to find the Green Goblin was at his Thanksgiving dinner with friends and family.

It was a million to one chance.

Spider-man is still indirectly responsible for all 3, and also the apartment fire, just for the fact that if he never involved himself in the goblins business or paraded around in the public eye... the events never would've came to be. I don't blame spider-man for the villains actions, I mean I'm not J Jonah Jameson here. But I think spider-man would blame himself, as would the law most likely. Through inaction, involvement or inability spider-man has brought about many of the potential disasters he has had to prevent. Although he's a hero to ME, and I know he means well... my emotions aren't enough to blind me to the truth... or poor writing.

I don't recall Spidey blaming himself for any of the villains' evil deeds. He didn't even seem at all guilty for the thief's death in SM-1.

Peter: "He had a gun on me. I made a move, and he fell"

So why would he be feeling responsible for the villains' actions? The only villain he should feel remotely responsible for is Venom, because he had him fired in disgrace, and dated the girl Brock was obsessed with. Venom's entire basis was in retaliation to that. And even then Brock was in the wrong because he faked those pics in the Bugle to frame Spidey and get himself a job.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Menace 19 - Hero 18

 

[Chris Wallace]

I wish the poll had included a "mixed opinion" option. That, to me, is more realistic. For everyone to hate him is stupid & for everyone to love him is equally stupid. In the real world, public perception is always split. Is Michael Jackson a child molester? Is Tom Cruise gay? Can Barack Obama fix the economy? Were the Black Panthers a bunch of hate-mongers? Did Kris Allen deserve to win American Idol? Is Halle Berry the most beautiful woman in the world? Is "The Dark Knight" the greatest comic book movie ever? Depends on who you ask.
I think if anything, the dead-heat status of this poll supports my argument.

 

[The Slang]

He did protect his identity. All he had was a cut on his arm. Something only Goblin would recognize. The last place in the world he expected to find the Green Goblin was at his Thanksgiving dinner with friends and family.

Okay this will be my last post, as your starting to irritate me by being increasingly nitpicky and purposely confusing my points.

Bad choice of words on my part- He didn't fail to protect his identity. He failed to keep his identity secret. Can we agree on that?

And lol hello? Uncle Ben? ring a bell? Parker becomes spider-man because he blames himself for the actions of a criminal.​

 

[SpeterMan3]

I wish the poll had included a "mixed opinion" option. That, to me, is more realistic. For everyone to hate him is stupid & for everyone to love him is equally stupid. In the real world, public perception is always split. Is Michael Jackson a child molester? (Nooooo!!) Is Tom Cruise gay? (Nahhhh) Can Barack Obama fix the economy? (idk, lol) Were the Black Panthers a bunch of hate-mongers? (Maybe a little, but mostly no, lol) Did Kris Allen deserve to win American Idol? (Cheese, nah!) Is Halle Berry the most beautiful woman in the world? (No, my mommy is.) Is "The Dark Knight" the greatest comic book movie ever? (I don't see what's so great about it...) Depends on who you ask.
I think if anything, the dead-heat status of this poll supports my argument.

I agree 100%

 

[The Joker]

Okay this will be my last post as your starting to irritate me by being increasingly nitpicky and purposely confusing my points.

I'm being nitpicky? LOL! Pot, kettle, and black spring to mind here.

I'm not purposely confusing anything. If I'm confusing your points, it's because your points don't make sense.

Bad choice of words on my part- He didn't fail to protect his identity. He failed to keep his identity secret. Can we agree on that?

Yes.

And lol hello? Uncle Ben? ring a bell? Parker becomes spider-man because he blames himself for the actions of a criminal.

No, he blamed himself because he deliberately let the criminal go just to spite the wrestling manager who cheated him. He could have stopped the thief but he didn't.

He didn't use his great power with great responsibility. And if that's not clear enough for you, you do remember that confession he made to Aunt May in SM-2 for being responsible for Ben's death, right?

He didn't blame himself for the actions of the criminal. He blamed himself for his lack of action in stopping the criminal when he should have.

With great power comes great responsibility. He doesn't blame himself for the deaths Green Goblin and Doc Ock caused because at least he tried to stop them. He didn't stand back and do nothing.