"Smaller" Avengers sequel?

Discussion in 'The Avengers Sequels' started by MessiahDecoy123, Mar 9, 2012.

?

Should the Avengers sequel have a smaller feel?

  1. Yes, it should be smaller

  2. No, keep it epic

  3. I'm not sure what "smaller" means

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  1. DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    Yo... I've never seen a good Ultron Cosplay, that would be complete and utter pwnage!!!!!!


    Well, I'd want him to have a Vibranium Shell somehow, to account for his uberness. Then, he'd have that super hacking ability, and crazy intelligence so he could break down the Avengers psychologically, and loudly blast their personal info, or upset their lives in a way that is carefully calculated to bring about a certain result. He could turn the Avengers against each other pretty thoroughly and easily, I think. He could turn the whole military machine against SHIELD, in fact, which could be pretty cool.

    Beyond that, he doesn't need/probably shouldn't have a lot of physical abilities. A ranged energy attack, super strength and durability of course. His robot flexibility, speed and timing is what should allow him to face all the Avengers single handedly. Keep it simple, and keep driving home his intelligence and access to the Avengers' personal lives. He's not a villain with a lot of pathos, so there's no need to focus on his character arc or anything.
     
  2. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    :huh: Why Vibranium when he's made of Adamantium?

    What do people want Ultron to sound like or who would they like to do his voice?

    I always imagine Ultron sounding like a more mechanical version of Skeletor from the old Filmation He-Man cartoon.
     
  3. BigThor God of Thunder

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    Yeah I want him to have his adamantium shell for toughness and he was portrayed with alot of heavy artillery on A:EMH. I know we all want to see his hacking ability in full form as well as vast intelligence so I meant more along the lines of combat abilities.

    He shot energy beams from his hands and mouth as well as an impenetrable force field, he also emitted sound waves from his hands that were able to blow Hawkeye and BP away. Ultron also had one cannon on each shoulder and they should out these red energy bullets, man this Ultron was armed to the teeth.

    I was thinking about that too, I think his A:EMH voice and Next Avengers voice were both great but I'm leaning towards his Next Avengers voice because it was slightly deeper, more sadistic, and a bit more mechanic.
     
    #53 BigThor, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  4. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    ^ You don't want Ultron to sound like a mechanical Skeletor then?

    If Wasp is in Avengers 2 with Ultron, does anyone think we'll get a recreation of this scene where he tries to transfer all of Jan's brain patterns into Jocasta so that he can have a new bride?

    [​IMG]

    That would be a cool scene to have near the climax of the movie where Jan is captured and Jocasta is coming to life. Then when Jocasta is activated, she turns on Ultron and joins the Avengers.

    Of course, Ultron also needs to invent the Vision, but I'd still like to see Jocasta. It would fit with the theme of the Oedipus complex. However, that might be better left to the Ant-Man film itself with Jocasta being created there.
     
  5. BigThor God of Thunder

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    I don't really remember how Skeletor sounds and I think Tom Kane could do a pretty good job as Ultron, especially since he voiced him excellently in Next Avengers and A:EMH albeit with slightly different voices.
     
  6. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    Skeletor's voice:

    [YT]y1sIKRYGX9A[/YT]

    Just think of that tone but slightly more mechanical. It already sounds a little mechanical anyway.
     
  7. MarvelKnight Registered

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    Tom Kane would be fine since he has done Ultron in the past. I'm sure he would tweak a few things, whether its phrasing, inflection, or whatever to make this incarnation of Ultron unique..

    If for some reason he can't or won't do it, Peter Cullen all the way, since he has a history with voicing robots.

    I'd like to see some sort of self repairing as well with Ultron. Nothing crazy but a little bit of that would be nice.
     
  8. DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    Sounds like an Ant-Man movie, not an Avengers movie. :(

    Adamantium is being used by Fox, remember?

    I think for a voice, they should eschew the predictable robotic filter voice, and make it smooth as silk, but his diction robotically perfect, like GlaDOS from Portal, or the computer from EagleEye. I think the way he uses his voice has a lot to do with the character's appeal, so having some 'we are legion' type effect (either multivoices, or him calling everyone's cell phone at once), or him being very smooth and persuasive could be incredible. There's no reason for his vocalization to be primitive and robotic, and it can add a charm and warmth and perhaps even pathos to the character.

    EDIT: Get the man himself: Frank Welker to make Ultron something incredible.
     
    #58 DrCosmic, Mar 13, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  9. BigThor God of Thunder

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    Yeah I'm gonna stick with Tom Kane, that voice does not sound anything near how I expect or want Ultron's voice to sound.
     
  10. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    Well it does, but it was also from the very pages of the Avengers where Ultron hypnotised Ant-Man to kidnap Wasp and then Ant-Man battled the Avengers himself. Later, the Avengers fought Ultron but then Jocasta turned on him when he was gaining the upper hand.
     
  11. DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    Yes, there are many issues of Avengers that only use the Avengers as cameos. They would not be suitable as a storyline for an Avengers film because it takes the title characters and basically sidelines them. You can do that in a comic that comes out 12 times a year over the course of 40 years. You can't do that for a film that comes out maybe 2-5 times total for the foreseable future.

    The story you just summarized could easily substitue SHIELD in for the Avengers and nothing would be lost (and the movie would be much cheaper and cleaner). This kinda cements my idea that Ultron is an Ant-Man villain primarily, as his arc grows directly out of Hank's arc, and can be most satisfyingly resolved by Hank's actions (ie Jan's love for Hank which rubs off on Jocasta). After a little research this makes sense: Hank never had his own book, so if writers ever wanted to do something with him, they had to co-opt the Avengers book to make it happen, and take it from a team up book to an Ant-Man story.

    It begs the question from the more informed. Much less popular characters (ie Eric O Grady even) have had solo books. Why not Hank and Jan?
     
  12. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    They *did* have their own gig before Avengers started....one of those brief pulp sci-fi serials in Tales to Astonish or a similar Marvel anthology pulp. Then when Stan and Kirby created Avengers, they tried to steer clear of making it an all-star team, because that would be too much like copying Justice League. Instead, they intended to make Avengers their own self-contained little team, composed of heroes who didn't have their own titles. With the exception of Thor and Iron Man. (Hulk was only a true Avenger for one issue, so he doesn't count; and Cap began his Silver Age career as an Avenger, dug up from the Golden Age trash bin, and didn't really get his own solo title until 4 years after his debut in the Avengers. Until then, he was still considered primarily an Avenger, and he shared a rotation with Iron Man in the Tales of Suspense mag until both later got their own titles.)

    That's why old-school Avenger fans like me often accuse Bendis of not "getting it." Avengers was supposed to be self-contained for the most part, with a core cast of characters who were Avengers ONLY. But Bendis went with the JLA copycat, and turned it into an all-star league.
     
  13. Doomed_hero Registered

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    smaller always works better. Empire strikes back was much smaller in the over all story and more personal, it traded in stopping a ship that can destory worlds in a blink of a eye with a personal battle between luke and vader that resonates more with people to this day.
     
  14. DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    The core cast of Avengers hasn't been Avengers ONLY for a long time. By the time the 70s hit we had most members with solo titles. All the 'Avengers ONLY' types were given some kind of reserve status until they could prove themselves worthy of the team up effect.

    Bendis, and Feige, I think, are just continuing something that's been happening a long time with the Avengers, just by the nature of the book. And by the by, there was nothing Trashy about Cap's Golden Age career.
     
  15. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    By "trash heap," I just meant "forgotten for 20 years," not any slight on the quality of the Golden Age comic. ;)

    But I don't think "most" of the Avengers ever got solo titles. The Big Three, sure, but it took a few years for even Cap, Thor and Iron Man to headline their own books; Black Panther got his own book; She-Hulk had a brief solo title *before* joining the Avengers; and War Machine had a brief solo career. Other than that, the core Avengers (Giant-Man, Ant-Man, Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Vision, Swordsman, Black Knight, Mantis, Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel, Tigra, Mockingbird, Justice, Jack of Hearts, Quasar, Sersi, Mantis, Crystal) could only be seen in Avengers proper, or brief stints guest-starring in other titles.
     
  16. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    :doh: I wish you would get your facts straight before posting. Nearly every post of yours seems to contain factual errors or misinformation.

    Ms Marvel had her own title before the Avengers which ran almost as long as She-Hulk, and Ant-Man was the star of Tales to Astonish (from 1962-1965) which had Wasp co-starring alongside him.
     
  17. BigThor God of Thunder

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    I was watching Next Avengers earlier and that Ultron design would be perfect for live action, I would like for him to have the huge arsenal he had on A:EMH though (energy beams, force fields, energy bullets, sound waves etc).

    Just take a look at this video to see all the weapons and artillery Ultron had at his disposal in A:EMH.

    [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD-P-TJwtOE[/YT]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD-P-TJwtOE
     
    #67 BigThor, Mar 14, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  18. cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    I genuinely wasn't aware of the early 70s Ms. Marvel title (I never saw it in my stores as a teenager; thanks for clearing that up, though), but my point still stands, that very few of the core roster *spun off* from the Avengers. I mentioned that Shulkie already had an unsuccessful solo title *before* the Avengers, and apparently Carol did, too.

    Plus, I alredy mentioned Ant-Man and Wasp in Tales to Astonish in the previous post.
     
  19. DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    Not in the early 70s. You've proposed the idea that an all-star motif is something that Bendis came up with because he "Didn't get it," but befire Widow, Mantis, WonderMan, etc, you just had Vision, Black Knight and people appearing regularly in other monthlies. By the time the mid seventies hit, you had an influx of Avengers-only, which is probably the era you're thinking about. But still, the books have always had varying balances of all-stars and Avengers only characters. Even under Bendis, for every Wolverine there was a Ronin, for Every Sentry a Captain America, for every Ms. Marvel an Ares. You get the idea. Balance. It's an old team book trick, where you get the character arcs from team ONLY characters, and you keep all stars on, without arcs, to keep the book selling. Avengers, both now and then, is no different.

    So while I appreciate your information, I do disagree on the conclusion. Also, in retrospect it doesn't answer my question. If anything it puts Hank and Jan on the level with Swordsman, Mantis and Tigra. At least Widow, Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel and Vision have supported books and miniseries in recent times. Is Hank just not that popular, or is he hard to write for, or had his storylines been exhausted in Avengers?

    Back to the topic, this team book approach won't work in the Avengers film, because everyone needs an arc, and glorified cameos (as all stars do in balanced team books) are unsatisfying, as you can't just turn around and read their book that comes out that same week/next week. For a smaller more personal film, the lack of arc would stick out like a sore thumb. I think what Avengers 1 is doing is make the arcs about the relationships, not that they overcome their personal issues, but that they learn to deal with each other's personal issues. Avengers 2, if it's supposed to be more personal, will actually likely dig into their individual issues and they'll have to face them. That'll be really interesting, because what happens to that character development when they go back to their own franchise? Will another writer/director have to just deal with a new element of their character? Interesting.
     
  20. MarvelKnight Registered

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    Yeah, I think it goes without saying that new writers/directors will have to adhere to what happens to the characters they inherit from previous films. These movies(especially in the wake of Avengers) will have much bigger ripple effects. What happens in Avengers will trickle down to all the movies because they are all in the same world.

    Could it make writers/directors hesitant because they want to make their own mark on the characters..maybe, but any writer/director with half a brain probably understands that they are just a cog in the machine that Marvel has created. I'm sure they'll be able to do some things creatively, as long as they stick to the frame Marvel and the previous movies have laid out(character wise especially)

    Just like with Whedon, they said 'make your movie, but it has to have these particular points' and Whedon has done that and will probably make one of the best movies we've seen in a long time.
     
  21. DrCosmic Professor of Power

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    True, but it'd be interesting, for, say, the Thor 2 team, if they do something with Thor, to set up for Thor 3, but Whedon diffuses that in Avengers 2.
     
  22. MarvelKnight Registered

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    I kind of see what you're saying, got a specific hypothetical to better explain?
     
  23. MarvelKnight Registered

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    Since all these movies are intertwined I guess it's entirely possible. But there should be no reason for that because everything in these movies all feeds into the overall arc of the Avengers. In the end there should be no reason to completely 86 something from Thor through the Avengers especially if it only has to do with the Thor's solo movies.
     
    #73 MarvelKnight, Mar 14, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  24. BigThor God of Thunder

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    Well I guess no one's interested in Ultron's weaponry (lol).
     
  25. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    I don't know if he needs that much to be honest. He has that encephalo-ray thing that puts people into a death-like coma, and he also has a molecular rearranger as well as all the other concussive blasts, super strength and speed, invulnerability and flight. He's already sounding like Superman. He just needs a cape now and a "U" on his chest for Ultra (Ultron?) Man. :oldrazz:

    Giving him too much of an arsenal just seems like overkill.

    Sometimes I wish the heroic Ultron Mark 12 survived, as it would be cool to have him as a hero as well.
     

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