Smoking bans: Good or Bad?

[Calvin]

How does smoking in public have nothing to do with public health? Really, I'm serious and would like a serious answer without name calling or wishing people dead.

Since when are privately owned bars and restaurants public?

 

[Strange]

And I wouldn't vote for a complete ban, since it takes away the RIGHTS of the OWNER of an establishment.

Again, this is your opinion and you have the right to that. But I would like to point out that just because someone owns a place does not mean they can do whatever they want with it. I mean like my example above, the health department is reponsible for making sure food is prepared properly. If food in a restaurant is not prepared or stored properly, even if no customer complains, then they can still be shut down due to the fact it can cause harm to the public.

 

[Strange]

Since when are privately owned bars and restaurants public?

Since forever

 

[Calvin]

Again, this is your opinion and you have the right to that. But I would like to point out that just because someone owns a place does not mean they can do whatever they want with it. I mean like my example above, the health department is reponsible for making sure food is prepared properly. If food in a restaurant is not prepared or stored properly, even if no customer complains, then they can still be shut down due to the fact it can cause harm to the public.

Not the same thing at all. "Not complaining" isn't the same thing as people coming in with full intention to eat disease. Smokers come under their own free will with the actual premeditated intention to smoke. Bad analogy.

 

[Calvin]

Since forever

Since never in America. They're private businesses, they're not government owned. It's not communism.

 

[Strange]

Since never in America. They're private businesses, they're not government owned. It's not communism.

No they are not owned by the government but they all are regulated and can be shut down by the government if they have an unhealthy enviornment. Of course smoking is unhealthy but it still is legal in most reataurants. You cannot own a restaurant and refuse to let a public health inspector in or you will get shut down. If the building is not up to code, you can be shut down until it is fixed. Its not that hard to understand.

 

[Super Flight]

Burn em to the stake!!! they're drugies!!!

*the angry mob of villigers runs and kills the people who are doing drugs*

 

[Strange]

The jerk wants to ban it even in places where EVERYONE there wants to smoke, and he'll never be there.


You know what?, I think it would be wrong if the government came and threw a sledge hammer through Strange's monitor and strung him up by his wrists in a warehouse and didn't feed him for 2 weeks, BUT I'd vote for them to do it anyway because I don't like Strange.

I'd vote for that as well, I might enjoy it

And I appreciate that you don't like me but I still love you

 

[The Squirrel]

I'm all for it.

 

[Addendum]

Since forever

I keep forgetting that when the bills are due, instead of the bill collectors making sure the owner pays the bills, the bill collector goes around the restaurant and makes sure the public pays.

If the owner decides to make his or her privately owned business a "smoke-free" environment, that owner does not need a government ban in place. A sign in the front window in large enough letters that says "This business is a smoke-free environment" suffices.

The same can be used if the owner decides to have their business allow for smoking. A sign in the front in large enough letters that says "This business allows smoking" would suffice.

If a person doesn't like that that restaurant allows smoking, then eat. somewhere. else.

 

[Calvin]

No they are not owned by the government but they all are regulated and can be shut down by the government if they have an unhealthy enviornment. Of course smoking is unhealthy but it still is legal in most reataurants. You cannot own a restaurant and refuse to let a public health inspector in or you will get shut down. If the building is not up to code, you can be shut down until it is fixed. Its not that hard to understand.

Unless smoking is an illegal activity in and of itself, which it isn't, whether it's unhealthy or not has nothing to do with health inspectors. It's an activity that would be consensual, not the same thing as serving people disease ridden food. It's not an "unhealthy environment" in the regulatory sense if a smoke-filled environment is what the clientelle is coming for. You're taking away a private enterprise's choice to allow a legal activity acccording to his business preferences. Not the same thing at all as regulating food health.

 

[Hades]

My anus smokes me

 

[Super Flight]

doesn't all the illigeal drug money go to terrorists

 

[Strange]

Unless smoking is an illegal activity in and of itself, which it isn't, whether it's unhealthy or not has nothing to do with health inspectors. It's an activity that would be consensual, not the same thing as serving people disease ridden food. It's not an "unhealthy environment" in the regulatory sense if a smoke-filled environment is what the clientelle is coming for. You're taking away a private enterprise's choice to allow a legal activity acccording to his business preferences. Not the same thing at all as regulating food health.

Well that is why laws change all the time. Again I am not for banning or making smoking illegal everywhere. But at this time that is all that most local governments are calling for. I guess thats why we live in a Democracy, if the majority wants to ban smoking then it will be banned. As far as businesses I doubt if there was a total smoking ban that they will lose any money or customers. What are customers going to just stay home and smoke away? And again with a ban it is just saying that if you want to smoke smoke at home or in your car or desginated places. And I personally don't go to bars anymore, I use to and the smoke did bother me but after a few drinks I would forget about it. But there may be some people that want to go to a bar without the smoke, right now where I live I don't think this place exists. And I know its easy to say just don't go there and I probably won't but if smoking was banned then I might go there who knows. Again, I just wanted to hear peoples thoughts and opinions, and I appreicate the mostly civilized manner you have taken.

 

[Calvin]

Well that is why laws change all the time. Again I am not for banning or making smoking illegal everywhere. But at this time that is all that most local governments are calling for. I guess thats why we live in a Democracy, if the majority wants to ban smoking then it will be banned.

Actually, we don't live in a pure democracy. We have a constitution, and rights that are not to be violated. There were times when the majority would have voted to keep black people as less than equal, to keep women from having the vote, etc, but that wouldn't make it right, nor in line with the Constitution. Saying "if the majority wants it, then it's right" is not a valid argument. It's the same reason we have such an idiotic ban on gay marriages, because the majority thinks the majority dictates what's right, rather than looking at the actual principles our country is based on.

 

[Strange]

Actually, we don't live in a pure democracy. We have a constitution, and rights that are not to be violated. There were times when the majority would have voted to keep black people as less than equal, to keep women from having the vote, etc, but that wouldn't make it right, nor in line with the Constitution. Saying "if the majority wants it, then it's right" is not a valid argument. It's the same reason we have such an idiotic ban on gay marriages, because the majority thinks the majority dictates what's right, rather than looking at the actual principles our country is based on.

I agree on gay marriages, but with smoking it is up to the smoking public to have their voice heard. If the local or even state politicians won't listen then there is nothing I can do about it. Again, I think the system is not perfect. There are probably other issue out their where the majority wants to stop and I would like to see legal, like stem cell research. But I fight my battles as they come. Again I don't have it out for smokers, I have a lot of friends that smoke. All of my friends, when I go to their house, they do not smoke around me. Its thier house and they have the right but for their respect for me they don't.

 

[Addendum]

And a lighter example: while a majority of people watch "American Idol" when you look at the ratings, that doesn't mean "American Idol is the best show on TV"

 

[Darren Daring]

doesn't all the illigeal drug money go to terrorists

Alll of my pot money goes to my friend Bill. He's from Racine.

 

[Strange]

And a lighter example: while a majority of people watch "American Idol" when you look at the ratings, that doesn't mean "American Idol is the best show on TV"

That is all personal opinion and there is really no way to prove it.

Plus nielsen ratings are a sham.

 

[Calvin]

I agree on gay marriages, but with smoking it is up to the smoking public to have their voice heard. If the local or even state politicians won't listen then there is nothing I can do about it. Again, I think the system is not perfect. There are probably other issue out their where the majority wants to stop and I would like to see legal, like stem cell research. But I fight my battles as they come. Again I don't have it out for smokers, I have a lot of friends that smoke. All of my friends, when I go to their house, they do not smoke around me. Its thier house and they have the right but for their respect for me they don't.

If you're still trying to stick by the argument of "well, smokers should be the ones that fight for it," fine, but your "I don't like it so I'd vote against it even though it's wrong to do so" doesn't fly. If your stand is that you don't like smoking but you realize it's unconstitutional to take the choice away from private owners, then DON"T VOTE AGAINST IT. Don't want to fight for it, fine, but don't fight against it until you actually have a legitimate legal argument. Which you don't.

 

[Darren Daring]

That is all personal opinion and there is really no way to prove it.

Plus nielsen ratings are a sham.

None of what he said was personal opinion.

None.

 

[Addendum]

That is all personal opinion and there is really no way to prove it.

Plus nielsen ratings are a sham.

It was a damned "Lighter example".

I loathe people who fail to grasp levity

 

[Strange]

If you're still trying to stick by the argument of "well, smokers should be the ones that fight for it," fine, but your "I don't like it so I'd vote against it even though it's wrong to do so" doesn't fly. If your stand is that you don't like smoking but you realize it's unconstitutional to take the choice away from private owners, then DON"T VOTE AGAINST IT. Don't want to fight for it, fine, but don't fight against it until you actually have a legitimate legal argument. Which you don't.

Ok, if you want a clear cut and dry answer then I will say that I think public smoking causes harm to not only the people who smoke but others around them and something should be done about it. If it comes on the ballot I will vote for it and I never said it was unconstitiutional, I don't think it says anything about the freedom to smoke in the constitution, at least I don't remember. And you keep talking about private owners, that really means nothing. Whether bad or good, you cannot really own anything in America. If you don't pay your taxes your land, buildings, cars, personal possession can be taken and you can be sent to jail. A person can own a business but if they allow the public in, it is considered a public place. I mean even the most private business in the US are still liable to OSHA and other government organizations like that.

 

[Strange]

None of what he said was personal opinion.

None.

He was talking about American Idol not being the best, but whether a program is the best or not is all personal opinion.

 

[Strange]

It was a damned "Lighter example".

I loathe people who fail to grasp levity

Sorry, does this help?