so...anyone watch PRIMEVAL?

LV: The episodes are all available to stream on Netflix, if that's available in the UK.

I never really missed Stephen after he died, to be honest. He was an idiot. Becker's been like 100 times better.

Cutter I was a bit unsure of. The show definitely became different after he died, but I thought Danny was a suitable replacement. He had his own strengths and his own style, so it wasn't like he was trying to be Cutter 2.0.

I'm a little worried about switching to another new leader after just 2/3rds of a series; I don't want the ARC team to have like a musical chair of leadership. But hopefully the new guy is cool too.
 
It's a show about jumping through time and alternate dimensions. We've had what, one line, from a crazy woman no less, that meant something along the lines of "Dead is dead so Stephen ain't coming back.."

Story wise they can easily "reveal" that this was just bull or misinformation, or come up with some other loophole. Like I said, I dig the balls, but for some closure they should really get a few people back. From the looks of the new season literally every single character I liked is gone(because the badass boss appears to not be in it anymore, right?). The fact that after not even 24 episodes the only cast members remaining are the 2 smallest original cast members is extremely jarring. The shoe in of Danny was akward and unneeded, and if they really WANTED to do it they should have done it better. I never liked him, but just replacing him yet again is rediculous.

Granted, I understand that having a cast stay the same over half a decade, especially in Europe, is next to impossible. But just to close out the show it would be nice if we got at least a couple of the main departed cast members back for this last season, even if it's only for 5 or 10 minutes during the last episode.
 
LV: The episodes are all available to stream on Netflix, if that's available in the UK.

I have them on dvd, I'm actually looking at them right now as I type, but the box set of Firefly is much more tempting to watch...

Anyhoo... Since the first series there's always been a sort of thing about having future versions of the cast come back via the anomalies to help out the current versions. To be honest thats what I thought when future lady showed up in series 3. Honestly thought they were going to go with it being Conor and Abby's kid, didn't see the Helen thing coming.

Anyway, think they'll do that this series?
 
Don't know, but that would be cool. I just hope Connor and Abby are "officially" together this series. Enough of the pussyfooting around.

It's a show about jumping through time and alternate dimensions. We've had what, one line, from a crazy woman no less, that meant something along the lines of "Dead is dead so Stephen ain't coming back.."

Story wise they can easily "reveal" that this was just bull or misinformation, or come up with some other loophole. Like I said, I dig the balls, but for some closure they should really get a few people back. From the looks of the new season literally every single character I liked is gone(because the badass boss appears to not be in it anymore, right?). The fact that after not even 24 episodes the only cast members remaining are the 2 smallest original cast members is extremely jarring. The shoe in of Danny was akward and unneeded, and if they really WANTED to do it they should have done it better. I never liked him, but just replacing him yet again is rediculous.

Granted, I understand that having a cast stay the same over half a decade, especially in Europe, is next to impossible. But just to close out the show it would be nice if we got at least a couple of the main departed cast members back for this last season, even if it's only for 5 or 10 minutes during the last episode.
What's lacking closure? I thought the show dealt with its dead characters and moved on pretty well. Everyone feels like a natural addition to the team to me in light of the losses.

- Stephen, the unofficial badass, is their first major death, so the government hands Lester a mandate for the team to be better protected, which leads to Becker.

- Cutter is killed by Helen. He passes on his work to the two eggheads, Connor and Sarah, and his leadership position goes to Jenny Lewis (admittedly an awkward fit since she was just the PR person, but it works out because...)

- Jenny, who was just the PR person and never really cut out for leadership, caves under the pressure after a creature nearly kills her. That leaves a leadership opening, which leads to Danny Quinn being appointed. He's an ex-cop so we know he can handle himself, and he's been nosing around the ARC and has helped them out of a couple jams by then anyway, so he's a natural fit.

It all seems like a pretty logical, natural progression to me.
 
Well, that is all fine until you remember the big kick in the nads the series got at the end of series 1/start of series 2 where Cluadia was wiped from existance, Leak was there, the ARC existed(which has to be cause they decided they wanted some of that base action Torchwood was getting) and Jenny was around. Also did Conor and Abby move apartments randomly during series 3? And what ever happened to Conor's geeky friend #2 that kidnapped the Dodo with geek friend #1/dead friend #1? And what of the Star Wars poster Conor has thats signed by Luke Skywalker? Is it signed "Luke Skywalker" or is it just signed by Mark?
 
I liked the timeline shift at the end of series 1. It gave viewers a sense of the stakes inherent in the series' premise. There is no going back for exactly the reasons Stephen laid out to Cutter: there are just too many variables they'd have to sift through using trial and error to figure out what exactly they needed to change for everything to go back to the way Cutter remembered. The chances of Cutter screwing everything up even worse outweighed the chances of his fixing things so astronomically that it literally wasn't even worth trying. Plus, let's be serious: Who really wants to see them get rid of the ARC, move back to the ugly Home Office building, de-ninjafy Abby, etc.? The timeline change made the whole anomaly operation much more efficient and cool to watch.

Connor moved out of Abby's flat due to Abby's brother showing up in series 3. He lived at the ARC for like an episode until Lester found out. Lester then let him stay with him in his apartment. Later, Abby's brother leaves after a bad experience in the future city. In the last episode, when Abby and Connor are trapped in the Cretaceous, Connor asks Abby if she'll let him move back into her flat and she agrees.

Connor's geeky friend is supposedly going to show up in series 4. The Primeval Wiki site indicated he was mentioned in one of the scripts.
 
Gotta say I really disagree with it feeling "natural" at all by the end and where we are picking up now.

Here's what worked for me:

-The season 1 shift: Like you said, it drove home the stakes. It was painful and interesting all at the same time, and changed up the status quo while still feeling like the same show, with the same cast.

-Death of Stephen: Again, right on the money. He was the badass, and at least for me(and I suspect many others) a damn likable badass. It upped the stakes even more, and was balanced out by the end of the episode where it was suggested we might see him in some form or another again.

-Replacement guy for Stephen: I liked Stephen more, but this guy works. Makes sense, and feels different enough in the same role.

-Death of Cutter: Talk about balls! Love it. THIS is what feels unfinished to me. Everything he is working on, we the audience feel it building to something but never quite get there. There was that moment where he is about to say something, then says it can wait. And on and on. In two episodes they left more threads with this guy hanging than pretty much any other death in television history. It was sudden, tragic, unexpected, and awesome. He had so much left to do. And only a few episodes after the OTHER main character bites it!

This, sadly, is where things really fall apart for me. It's a shame, because up to this point it was really kicking ass. But all that good will is soon wasted.

What doesn't work:

-Jenny leaving right after this: After 3 major cast changes in as many episodes, they decide to throw on another one? Too much. Also, too weak and easy an out for the character. The show begins to feel unrecognizable because (the main) 3 out of the 5 leads are now gone, only the comic relief and supporting character remain.

-Retconning the possibility of Stephen(or Cutter's, for that matter) return: This was a huge slap in the face. While it can easily be done anyway, to have the writers come out and basically say, "Too bad, they're dead, move on and get over it" was really lame. One of the biggest aspects of the show was the relationship between Cutter and Stephen, and to have both of those characters gone and have the writers basically tell us not to expect them back in any way(in a multidimensional time travel show in which other dead characters already showed up again) was a huge bunch of bull.

Which brings me to the worst thing thus far...

-DANNY: **** this guy. What a tool. Nothing against the actor I suppose, I mean I liked him getting shot in the mouth in Kick Ass, but his character and the way he is introduced and then written is absolutely TERRIBLE. He was annoying in the season 3 opener(or was it the second episode?) when I thought he would only be a featured character in that one episode. And then to have him show back up an episode or two later, kind of walk in the building and start making decisions and have everyone just "go with it" because he's a "natural leader" or some garbage? Absolutely awful. The show buckled under so many main cast changes, and this was by far the worst. It made no sense and was poorly done to boot.

-Going on from where we were: So now that the new season is coming, we've lost the main bad guy(okay, girl), the team's awesome Boss character, as well as annoying Danny. So 3 MORE major cast are gone now. And so far no one seems to expect anyone departed to return.

I love dinosaurs so I'll still be watching, but the show is just making me sad at this point. It had some big balls- whether due to actors wanting out or just taking risky story decisions- but didn't really know how to follow up with all that madness. Here's hoping they can salvage it into something satisfying.
 
I guess Danny's the main point where we differ because I loved Danny. I thought he was a great fit on the team and easily had more charisma than Cutter.

I'm still not sure what you feel has been left unfinished with Cutter, though. His main work in series 3 was the idea of predicting anomalies, which effectively got done anyway because it turns out that's what the artifact was for. The fact that it got destroyed is fine because, honestly, being able to predict anomalies makes things a bit too easy for the ARC team.
 
Danny was awesome. Cutter would stand there looking at something that could kill him any second and be all "wow..." and ruggedly Scottish about it. Danny would punch it until it was down, kick it in the balls and run.
 
Haha, yeah, I loved Danny's manic energy. Especially the bit with the helicopter.

"Don't worry, I'm an experienced pilot."
"How experienced?"
"Two lessons. But they went unbelievably well!"

:funny:
 
I suppose it doesn't matter now, since he too is gone anyway. I didn't need Cutter to be a witty man of action, because Stephen was around for that.

And again, it was mostly the way his character was introduced and the transition was handled that I didn't like. A regular cop just shows up in this top secret whatever and starts ordering people around so they do it? It was incredibly forced and incredibly stupid. By the end of the season I was just ignoring it, but getting there was one hell of a chore.
 
So who is the new main lead guy? What is his story?

Here is my problem with the series. And its sort of my problem with time travel shows. They do both the thing where time sort of is self-fulfilling and and traveling through time does not prevent or change what you are expecting but merely causes it (Terminator 1, the terminators trying to kill Sarah Connor to prevent the birth of John Connor only causes Connor's birth). However by the end of series 2 things changed dramatically because of the meddling even though the skeleton that they found was really one of the soldiers, Cutter took the picture he found early on of Helen. This came up again in series 3 in that Helen only killed a group of early Hominids that died mysteriously. Helen's goal was to destroy humanity, but she didn't prevent it really because eventually the hominids that she killed were later found by humans. So clearly Helen is not that smart.

Then there is the issue of how does Cutter after series 1 remember everything that happened after the permanent time shift? Helen did as well. It makes my brain hurt.
 
I suppose it doesn't matter now, since he too is gone anyway. I didn't need Cutter to be a witty man of action, because Stephen was around for that.

And again, it was mostly the way his character was introduced and the transition was handled that I didn't like. A regular cop just shows up in this top secret whatever and starts ordering people around so they do it? It was incredibly forced and incredibly stupid. By the end of the season I was just ignoring it, but getting there was one hell of a chore.
Stephen was witty? When? He always came off as very stiff and boring to me. He was the badass and not much else. The only interesting thing about him to me was the long-standing relationship with Cutter that allowed him to question Cutter's decisions where the rest of the team would just go along with him. But then he got into bed with Helen (literally) and every shred of his credibility for potentially keeping Cutter in line went out the window.

Danny wasn't even a cop by the time he started nosing around the ARC. He quit. But it still made sense to me because, yeah, he's just some dude, but he clearly knew how to handle himself and his orders were absolutely the right ones. Jenny clearly didn't really know what she was doing, so it's actually a testament to her leadership ability that she can recognize Danny has the better ideas and swallow her pride enough to go along with him. By the time she left and Danny got appointed leader, he had already proven his value to the team on two separate missions, taking charge and effectively saving the day while the ARC team floundered both times, and he represented a considerable security risk if they kept trying to cut him out anyway. It was literally both the path of least resistance and the one that made the most sense to just recognize his value and cave to his demand for being put on the team.

Also, keep in mind: The entire ARC team aside from Becker are just normal civilians, too. Since the timeline shifted, it seems they got some basic training in self-defense (which Danny would've gotten as a cop), how to handle firearms (which Danny would've gotten as a cop), and how to deal with intense situations (which Danny would've gotten as a cop). We never saw any indication that Sarah even had that much; she seemed to have been brought on as a researcher and then just sort of slipped into fieldwork with no one giving it a second thought. Danny is every bit as qualified as the rest of them; more so, in fact, given incidents like Connor accidentally tranquilizing Abby, Abby charging into the future city like an idiot because her brother was trapped there, etc. There are so many close calls due at least in part to the gross incompetence of the ARC team that I kept thinking throughout each and every series that it was a miracle anyone managed to survive as long as they did.
 
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On paper what you say sounds reasonable. It's the execution of it all that I thought was rediculous and poorly handled. Maybe I'm just out of practice from not watching terrible doctor and lawyer shows on the 3 major networks, but I've never seen such a major cast changeover handled in such a blatantly poor and akward manner.

Given the short number of episodes in the show's run and the nature of the show in the first place(generally episodic with light mythology), ditching and replacing so many of the main cast in such a short amount of time simply did not work.

Perhaps if they had more time to plan out the writing and the events, and knew where they wanted to go ahead of time, they could have crafted a fairly decent season in which 2 major cast members died, a third left, and 3 new main characters were all brought in. I get the feeling that the show kind of wanted to have it both ways, and that the behind the scenes stuff may have been quite stressful and agree that some of the actors wanted out, because what was done makes no sense from a showrunning standpoint.

The show is by and large, a show with a formula. They dole out bits and pieces of mythology for a couple of minutes an episode, and then have 1- at most 2- episodes per season fairly focused on that mythology. Its a show with a formula that has a set cast with specific functions. Within a span of 4 episodes, more than half of the entire cast- including ALL of the major players- were gone and replaced. All of these replacements served the same function as those before them(Badass, Leader, Woman). The only new cast member that served a new purpose was that government woman, who was acting as a secondary badguy and as a foil for their Awesome Boss.

I understand that unpredictable things happen behind the scenes. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the people responsible for the show were clever and crafty enough to maintain the show with such a revolving door.
 
Eh, to each his own. I thought the transition was handled very well, mostly because I felt engaged by all the new characters just as much as I was by the old ones. Becker's the only one who didn't get much backstory or a sense of deep personality, but I think that'll probably be rectified in series 4, since he's coming back as a main cast member.
 
Looks interesting. So is Jason Flemyng being written out or his character still stuck in the past?
 
afaik, he's still stuck in the past... but i have a feeling they won't leave him there...
 
He's listed on the Primeval Wiki as one of the main characters for series 4 and 5, so I have a feeling he'll be in the credits but reduced to a recurring role--sort of like Juliet Aubrey as Helen--and part of the plot for the coming series will be the ARC team's attempts to get him back. That's all just speculation based on a site that may or may not be reliable, though, so take it with a truckload of salt.
 
I will say, that trailer definitely squelched some of my misgivings. Apparently their awesome boss is still in the show, and according to you guys so is Danny(I might not like the guy, but if they just threw in a couple of lines about how both of the actors didn't want to do it, I mean, uh, moved away or were stuck in time or something, I would be pissed).

Also like the choices of dinosaurs and wildlife. The CGI looks better too. Hope things continue to improve.
 
New Years day, 7:30pm, ITV1...

HUZAR!!

Yeah, just found this out.
Super excited that we get a new Doctor Who Special and Primeval in the course of only a few days.
The CGI looks much better this time around.
 
I also beleive the second episode is on January 2nd, so more good news.
 

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