Comics The Anti-USM Thread

[November Rain]

I'm not sure why everyone is jumping the gun, ultimate spidey has pretty much always been hit or miss.

I just guess things in the normal 616 timeline were so weird, most people seem to overlook this factor...

meh, i find it fairly constant with ups and downs with a large percentage of ups coming from ock's appearance.

I don't mind his new ability, it's bound to be retconned sometime soon anyway. If not it does add a lil to his character since he is no longer deformed and i guess it can make him that bit more sinister.

Let's not beat the bush to much about people having similar powers, if you were to count up every person who had a superstrength of one sort or another, you'd be in the thousands, and let's not get started on all the 'olympic athlete, highly skilled' non powered combatants they are.

If i was going to jump the gun, i woudl have done it right by the venom arc, or maybe the one before (can't recall the name). and bought issues on a quality of story basis. To go now and pretend it's been peachy from the get go with a sudden recent decline is a lil bit off. meh...

at the end of the day it's only a story and you've been affected by it enough to collaborate others that feel the same way, it's done its purpose, a real reason to drop it is if you felt indifferent about what was going on and no longer cared,, it's clear some of you have an emotional attachement to one or a few of these characters, why jump ship, take a ride through the storm or whatever..

i don't even know what point i'm trying to make, screw it...

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I really hated the way we lost gwen stacey. I actually cared about gwen stacey for once and they just took her out of my life. *tear

 

[matt50]

i dropped it after issue 102...

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I prefer Urich's Gobby look.

 

[Dangerous]

Yeah his suit was cool, that was just a variation on Normans tho.

 

[gliderpilotgirl]

I know. gliderpilotgirl would say love isn't logical; I'd just say it's Peter not being logical. Or being straight-up dumb.

I don't see it either.

Your reading my mind!
I don't think Peter is being dumb. And love is not only not logical, it doesn't always follow the "wisest course" by outside standards . I'd much rather have Peter say: I'm going to stop with this pathetic "intellectual" approach that he's had to justify his relationship with Kitty, and realize that "crap happens". Peter is not being dumb because he is choosing to be with the girl he loves, MJ is fully aware of what she is getting into: A true deep love coupled with being the best of friends is fully worth the risk in my opinion. You only live once. And everyone has to die someday, I think Peter finally woke up to that, that he's been wasting time.

 

[Bat-Hombre]

Ultimate Marvel is just bad.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Ugh no thanx.

People seem to forget, THIS, and only this is the Green Goblin-

Old Goblin Romita Style

New Costume Humberto Ramos

Not this-

And definitely not this-

The original Goblin costume is okay, but let's face it, it's just not that visually stunning. Really, I would want to take the USM Goblin, make him much, much smaller (man sized) and give him a long dark purple billowing cloak. Kind of like the Urich Goblin look. He'd look simmilar to the 616 Goblin, but more frightening. Because honestly, the original Goblin design just isn't that frightening.

 

[Dangerous]

I don't think he was always supposed to look ‘frightening’ per say.
Sometimes in the right hands he can look quite scary when required however, Sal Buscema and Humberto Ramos’ versions spring to mind.

The Green Goblin's original and revised costumes are awesome designs, and basically that is who GG is-
a super powered nut job IN A COSTUME.
He is not a cross between the hulk and a troll.
USM GG just totally missed the point, to put simply it sucks balls.
But hey I guess we have a different opinion on these matters, which is cool.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I don't think he was always supposed to look ‘frightening’ per say.
Sometimes in the right hands he can look quite scary when required however, Sal Buscema and Humberto Ramos’ versions spring to mind.

The Green Goblin's original and revised costumes are awesome designs, and basically that is who GG is-
a super powered nut job IN A COSTUME.
He is not a cross between the hulk and a troll.
USM GG just totally missed the point, to put simply it sucks balls.
But hey I guess we have a different opinion on these matters, which is cool.

Oh no actually. I just liked the look of the GG in USM, but that's it. I said that I would take the general look of the USM Goblin, but downsize him to a normal man size, and then put him in a Urich style GG costume. I also hated how they turned him into a Hulk/goblin.

 

[Banshee_Kill]

I really don't see whats so wrong about changing things in the USM universe, and I disagree that the whole point is to just re-tell the original stories, if thats the case then why not just re-print the original series....

It seems to me like you don't like USM because its different from 616, well if thats the case then read 616 and don't buy, or bash USM. I have only started reading comics in the last year, and have read through all of USM and have really enjoyed, and you know what, I cant stand reading 616 where GG is a super human, or that Spidey is like 30 and has other weird powers he got from some sort of cocoon thing...

Its all really just opinion and as long as people buy the comics, people will continue to buy them.

Also I really enjoyed the first poster, who made some really good points and some I may even agree with, its simply the comments that state "USM sux because GG is an actual goblin.." that I disagree with.

 

[Secret_Riddle]

I really don't see whats so wrong about changing things in the USM universe, and I disagree that the whole point is to just re-tell the original stories, if thats the case then why not just re-print the original series....

It seems to me like you don't like USM because its different from 616, well if thats the case then read 616 and don't buy, or bash USM. I have only started reading comics in the last year, and have read through all of USM and have really enjoyed, and you know what, I cant stand reading 616 where GG is a super human, or that Spidey is like 30 and has other weird powers he got from some sort of cocoon thing...

Its all really just opinion and as long as people buy the comics, people will continue to buy them.

Also I really enjoyed the first poster, who made some really good points and some I may even agree with, its simply the comments that state "USM sux because GG is an actual goblin.." that I disagree with.

Good points pa-Banshee.

They read 616 first, just as you are reading Ultimate first. Ultimate will obviously have more of an impact on you then people who grew up with 616.

I too currently prefer the ultimate universe more then 616.

Amazing Spider-mans first 150 issues really is a marvel though.

 

[Won '08]

I've been quietly observing this thread, and all of your are allowed your personal views...

but I noticed...

Someone stated that "The Original intent" of USM was to update the current continuity up to today's newer generation of readers...

I thought the Ultimate Universe was a complete re-imagining of our beloved marvel characters.

Vol 2 of Amazing was the "update" and failed terribly, and in less than 20 issues was immediately retconned.

USM is supposed to be fresh and new. The changes are welcome (for me) because I have it set in my mind that this is not the Peter Parker I grew up with. This a new, fresh, young face designed to start a new stage in the life of Spidey readers old, and give something "more of their ilk" to Spidey readers of the new age.

The only thing I can honestly complain about in the USM books is the pacing and some of the story itself. Rather than argue who "should be" what and "Shouldn't be" doing that...I rather argue whether it was a good read or not =/

But ...thats me.

 

[Dangerous]

Welcome to the board, anyway-

I really don't see whats so wrong about changing things in the USM universe,

Basically what’s wrong about changing stuff to the extent that some of the characters in USM are altered, is that they cease to resemble the characters they were supposed to be based on.
Now, this would be fine if the villain for e.g., was called goblin hulk, but calling the character ‘Green Goblin’ is lame. In some areas of the book, though not all, USM is like the equivalent of what Kevin Smith envisioned for Superman 5. Basically it completely misses the point.
KS’s ‘Superman Lives’ script was not Superman, and USM is definitely not Spider-man.
It’s just some wimpy wannabe in a Spidey suit.

It seems to me like you don't like USM because its different from 616, well if that’s the case then read 616 and don't buy, or bash USM.

Don’t tell me not to bash it, I’ve been reading Spidey for 18 years.
Il bash it as much as I like.
It is s-hit.

I have only started reading comics in the last year, and have read through all of USM and have really enjoyed, and you know what, I cant stand reading 616 where GG is a super human, or that Spidey is like 30 and has other weird powers he got from some sort of cocoon thing...

Well your not exactly in the best position to judge what works in a SM comic or not then.
Any book you read for a year you are bound to develop a certain level of interest and care for the characters to which it inhabits. My guess is you have not stuck w/ any real Spidey comic for many months. I guess to a lot of new comers it can be a bit off putting to look at Amazing Spider-man and the cover says #537. USM is the easy jump on.
So you enjoy USM, I’m just telling you what’s wrong w/ it.
It’s a poor representation of Spider-man, since it aint the real webslinger.

 

[Venom 1988]

Oh no actually. I just liked the look of the GG in USM, but that's it. I said that I would take the general look of the USM Goblin, but downsize him to a normal man size, and then put him in a Urich style GG costume. I also hated how they turned him into a Hulk/goblin.

Thats actually not a bad idea. Kinda of like of he appeared for the most part of the Legacy arc.

I really don't see whats so wrong about changing things in the USM universe, and I disagree that the whole point is to just re-tell the original stories, if thats the case then why not just re-print the original series....

No one is saying to re-tell the orignal stories, that would be boring as hell. Im all for new stories and updates and modernizations to characters, just dont rape the characters and make totally drastic changes. Like I said before the whole point of the ultimate universe is to not worry about 40+ years of coninuity.

 

[Feature]

Eww, why was this thread ressurected?

USM is like any other book. Its had its good times and its bad times. Right now just happens to be one of its low points. It's a target for criticism because it radically changes characters, but considering that's the nature of the series, that's understandable. People can choose to dislike it, but it's been selling like 25,000+ more copies than any other Spidey title so they must be doing something right.

Edit: Actually, upon review of sales figues, ASM often sells more copies than USM, although USM is ahead of SSM and FNSM.

 

[Won '08]

Welcome to the board, anyway-



Basically what’s wrong about changing stuff to the extent that some of the characters in USM are altered, is that they cease to resemble the characters they were supposed to be based on.
Now, this would be fine if the villain for e.g., was called goblin hulk, but calling the character ‘Green Goblin’ is lame. In some areas of the book, though not all, USM is like the equivalent of what Kevin Smith envisioned for Superman 5. Basically it completely misses the point.
KS’s ‘Superman Lives’ scripts was not Superman, and USM is definitely not Spider-man.
It’s just some ***** wannabe in a Spidey suit.



Don’t tell me not to bash it, I’ve been reading Spidey for 18 years.
Il bash it as much as I like.
It is s-hit.



Well your not exactly in the best position to judge what works in a SM comic or not then.
Any book you read for a year you are bound to develop a certain level of interest and care for the characters to which it inhabits. My guess is you have not stuck w/ any real Spidey comic for many months. I guess to a lot of new comers it can be a bit off putting to look at Amazing Spider-man and the cover says #537. USM is the easy jump on book.
So you enjoy the book that’s fine, I’m just telling you what’s wrong w/ it.
Basically It’s just a really poor representation of Spider-man, since it aint real webs linger.

lol. This is just patronizing , dude.

Theres nothing wrong with a totally different spider-man being told in a totally different light.

SM '99 was received pretty well.

Hell everyone loved HoM SM.

Whats wrong with a TOTALLY DIFFERENT UNIVERSE having Sorta Kinda, to, Totally different, characters?

I don't understand the logic a lot of you guys are using.

And don't tell the guy he's in "no position".

He's a fan just like anyone else.

He Just happens to excuse himself from being a purist

 

[Dangerous]

lol. This is just patronizing , dude.

Theres nothing wrong with a totally different spider-man being told in a totally different light.

SM '99 was received pretty well.

Hell everyone loved HoM SM.

Whats wrong with a TOTALLY DIFFERENT UNIVERSE having Sorta Kinda, to, Totally different, characters?

I don't understand the logic a lot of you guys are using.

And don't tell the guy he's in "no position".

He's a fan just like anyone else.

He Just happens to excuse himself from being a purist

USM sucks balls is my logic dude.
Re read my last post again.

Also if the only SM comic that someone has read consistently for a year is USM,
then I am afraid they are in no position to talk about what works in SM comics.
Sorry if that chafes you so much.

 

[Venom 1988]

Someone stated that "The Original intent" of USM was to update the current continuity up to today's newer generation of readers...

Correct, as the writers stated stated way back in 2001.

I thought the Ultimate Universe was a complete re-imagining of our beloved marvel characters.

Of course, but that thats nots purpose. Like Im said Im all for re-imagining.

Vol 2 of Amazing was the "update" and failed terribly, and in less than 20 issues was immediately retconned.

Uh no it wasent, it was just a continuation of vol 1, they just decided to go back to the old numbers around the 500th issue. None of it was retconned

 

[Won '08]

Correct, as the writers stated stated way back in 2007.


Of course, but that thats nots purpose. Like Im said Im all for re-imagining.

Uh no it wasent, it was just a continuation of vol 1, they just decided to go back to the old numbers around the 500th issue. None of it was retconned

way back in 2007....*rubs his chin*

I know it's a typo and I know what Bendis and Co. said in interviews, but the products...(Black Nick Fury, Considerably Younger Logan that ended up being a desert storm war hero.....) Speak otherwise.

Annnnnnd actually....

Vol 2 wasn't just a number re-set. They Revamped Spidey's origin and -everything- about how he came about. Howard Mackie's curse was a crap stain on Spidey's legacy. That of which they retconned.

Immediately after Mackie's departure.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

SM '99 was received pretty well.

Well to be fair, Spider-Man 2099 is a completely different person. He's not supposed to be Peter Parker.

Hell everyone loved HoM SM.

Huh? That's not how I remember it. Everyone was mostly apathetic to irritated with Spidey's HoM story from what I recall.

Whats wrong with a TOTALLY DIFFERENT UNIVERSE having Sorta Kinda, to, Totally different, characters?

I liked the first couple of Ultimate Spider-Man arcs but I lost interest with the second Green Goblin story.

There's something about the whole Ultimate universe that I can't quite place that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe its the tone or the pacing or whatever but I don't ready any Ultimate books anymore.

 

[Won '08]

USM sucks balls is my logic dude.
Re read my last post again.

Also if the only SM comic that someone has read consistently for a year is USM,
then I am afraid they are in no position to talk about what works in SM comics.
Sorry if that chafes you so much.

I read your post twice before I responded to it.

Like I stated, your opinion on the book is cool.

But to say "Characters shouldn't be changed this way" is kinda hypocritical in the path of a totally different Spider-Man in a totally different universe.

"What works" is what makes a good story. Not "what makes us remember what we used to read when we were younger".

It doesn't chafe me just makes me wonder about a few people's ideas on the "new age" of "re-vamping" characters. altogether.

 

[Won '08]

Well to be fair, Spider-Man 2099 is a completely different person. He's not supposed to be Peter Parker.

I liked the first couple of Ultimate Spider-Man arcs but I lost interest with the second Green Goblin story.

There's something about the whole Ultimate universe that I can't quite place that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe its the tone or the pacing or whatever but I don't ready any Ultimate books anymore.

True. Miguel was no Peter....but get this...Ultimate Parker is no 616 Parker. and thats the point of the book. His ideals remain but he is still his own character.

Now everything else you've stated? Perfection. You don't read cus you don't enjoy the story rather than "they changed the characters" and I can understand that.

I previously stated, that I, myself, have problems with the pacing of stories, and some just seem down right horrid to dredge through in the first of places.

But I won't hate on the book because of the changes made to break away from the source.

Not I.

 

[Venom 1988]

way back in 2007....*rubs his chin*

Yea I edited it that, I meant 2001.

I know it's a typo and I know what Bendis and Co. said in interviews, but the products...(Black Nick Fury, Considerably Younger Logan that ended up being a desert storm war hero.....) Speak otherwise.

A Black Nick Fury is a reimagining ,which is fine. And we have no idea how old Logan is, the fact that he fought in desert storm wouldnt jusify his age. In fact in Ultimate War, Cap mentioned something to him about WWII, meaning hes not that young.

Vol 2 wasn't just a number re-set. They Revamped Spidey's origin and -everything- about how he came about. Howard Mackie's curse was a crap stain on Spidey's legacy. That of which they retconned.

Immediately after Mackie's departure.

I'm assuming your talking about the whole Spider Totum stuff. If so, it is still talked about after switching back to the old numbers(i.e. Book of Ezekiel, The Other, etc...).

 

[Won '08]

A Black Nick Fury is a reimagining ,which is fine. And we have no idea how old Logan is, the fact that he fought in desert storm wouldnt jusify his age. In fact in Ultimate War, Cap mentioned something to him about WWII, meaning hes not that young.

I'm assuming your talking about the whole Spider Totum stuff. If so, it is still talked about after switching back to the old numbers(i.e. Book of Ezekiel, The Other, etc...).

I knew it was a typo i was just joshin'.

Annnnnd true about Logan, still his whole image is that of a young "punk". That arrogant bastard in Storm Ship Troopers. That cocky mo-fo in Band of Brothers. etc. Hell they even had him doing double agency with the US Government, Weapon X, the Brotherhood and X-Men. Logan wouldn't lend himself out like that in the 616. But that is just the point I'm trying to make.

Annnnd no. The Spider-Totem stuff I actually enjoyed.

I'm talking about Doc Ock and Spids being born of the same "accident".

About May being the one who was "really" responsible for Ben's death.

You never read Vol 2 from the start?

Lucky you.